Integration limits with Cambria Math

Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Michail Vidiassov]

Dear All,

if I process the following with
"ConTeXt  ver: 2009.08.14 10:48 MKIV/LuaTeX, Version beta-0.42.0-2009071723"
I get too much space between the integral sign and limits of integration.
Sum limits are positioned OK.
Without "cambria" lines integral is also fine. 
---------------
\usetypescript[cambria]
\setupbodyfont[cambria]

\starttext

Inline $ \sum_{x=a}^{b}{f(x)g(x)}=\int_{a}^{b}{f(x)g(x)dx} $.
\startformula
  \sum_{x=a}^{b}{f(x)g(x)}=\int_{a}^{b}{f(x)g(x)dx}.
\stopformula

\stoptext
--------------

Is it a bug? Are there fixes/workarounds?

        Sincerely, Michail
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Re: Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Michail Vidiassov wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> if I process the following with
> "ConTeXt  ver: 2009.08.14 10:48 MKIV/LuaTeX, Version 
> beta-0.42.0-2009071723"
> I get too much space between the integral sign and limits of integration.

> 
> Is it a bug? Are there fixes/workarounds?

Do you recall whether this was ok earlier?

Best wishes,
Taco
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Michail Vidiassov]

Dear Taco,

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>> I get too much space between the integral sign and limits of integration.
>> Is it a bug? Are there fixes/workarounds?
>
> Do you recall whether this was ok earlier?

  I did not use integral with limits before, I am new in ConTeXt land.

Sincerely, Michail

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Re: Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Aditya Mahajan]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 637 bytes --]

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Michail Vidiassov wrote:

> Dear Taco,
>
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>>> I get too much space between the integral sign and limits of integration.
>>> Is it a bug? Are there fixes/workarounds?
>> 
>> Do you recall whether this was ok earlier?
>
> I did not use integral with limits before, I am new in ConTeXt land.

I think that the space is also excessive with context version 2009.07.17 
and luatex -0.42.0-2009071807

I am attaching the output of

\usetypescript[cambria]
\setupbodyfont[cambria]

\starttext

\startTEXpage
$\displaystyle \int_a^b \int\limits_a^b$
\stopTEXpage

\stoptext

Aditya

[-- Attachment #2: Type: APPLICATION/pdf, Size: 23325 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,


While the space after the inlined subscripts does look excessive, it
faithfully matches the font's MATH table: the integrals in cambria math
have a massive italic correction even though they fit in their bounding
boxes quite nicely.

Maybe Word has a workaround for that, but at first glance it looks to
me like there is nothing we can do except complain to Microsoft.

Best wishes,
Taco


Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Michail Vidiassov wrote:
> 
>> Dear Taco,
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>>>> I get too much space between the integral sign and limits of
>>>> integration.
>>>> Is it a bug? Are there fixes/workarounds?
>>>
>>> Do you recall whether this was ok earlier?
>>
>> I did not use integral with limits before, I am new in ConTeXt land.
> 
> I think that the space is also excessive with context version 2009.07.17
> and luatex -0.42.0-2009071807
> 
> I am attaching the output of
> 
> \usetypescript[cambria]
> \setupbodyfont[cambria]
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \startTEXpage
> $\displaystyle \int_a^b \int\limits_a^b$
> \stopTEXpage
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> Aditya
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Michail Vidiassov]

Dear All,

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> While the space after the inlined subscripts does look excessive, it
> faithfully matches the font's MATH table: the integrals in cambria math
> have a massive italic correction even though they fit in their bounding
> boxes quite nicely.

> Maybe Word has a workaround for that, but at first glance it looks to
> me like there is nothing we can do except complain to Microsoft.

"We" as the developers, who do not consider non-general solutions, or
"we" as end-users, who can use non-kosher tricks and workarounds
(negative kerns and the like) to suit their limited private needs?

BTW, is there an ear in Microsoft open to such complaints?

          Sincerely, Michail
>>>>> I get too much space between the integral sign and limits of
>>>>> integration.
>>>>> Is it a bug? Are there fixes/workarounds?
>> I think that the space is also excessive with context version 2009.07.17
>> and luatex -0.42.0-2009071807
>>
>> I am attaching the output of
>>
>> \usetypescript[cambria]
>> \setupbodyfont[cambria]
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> \startTEXpage
>> $\displaystyle \int_a^b \int\limits_a^b$
>> \stopTEXpage
>>
>> \stoptext
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Hans Hagen]

Michail Vidiassov wrote:

> "We" as the developers, who do not consider non-general solutions, or
> "we" as end-users, who can use non-kosher tricks and workarounds
> (negative kerns and the like) to suit their limited private needs?

in principle we can patch a font runtime in mkiv as there is a mechanism 
for that but before we do so, we need to collect bugs and kep track of 
fixed as well

> BTW, is there an ear in Microsoft open to such complaints?

that's why Ulrik is in the cc, as he investigated otf math and cambria 
in-depth and is best qualified to tell us what to do cq. act as liason 
with microsoft (a few years ago we had a nice evening-cabine-session at 
bachotek where we looked at how ms word does math, which is quite 
impressive btw)

Hans

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Integration limits with Cambria Math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> While the space after the inlined subscripts does look excessive, it
> faithfully matches the font's MATH table: the integrals in cambria math
> have a massive italic correction even though they fit in their bounding
> boxes quite nicely.

Ok, Ulrik sent me a Word screenshot, and  it turns out that we are
(apparently) supposed to ignore the italic correction when a symbol
is used in 'mathematical contexts' as it is here (as opposed to
'textual contexts', both of which terms are yet-to-be-defined).

Finding a proper solution to this problem will not be easy. TeX82
solves the spacing problems by having math fonts (recognisable by
the lack of a space-width font dimension) as well as text fonts
(that do have a space-width dimension), but that split does not
exist in OpenType Math (as there is only one font).


Best wishes,
Taco
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