From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/53023 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Small caps problem/bug with some fonts Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:52:54 +0200 Message-ID: <4AB50C66.7080805@wxs.nl> References: <86d68cc30909180557x19dea6b8o8a2562f125a85275@mail.gmail.com> <4AB387A0.2000300@wxs.nl> <20090918181528.GA28412@crud.chemoelectric.org> <4AB3D4A8.1020809@wxs.nl> <20090918201908.GA29031@crud.chemoelectric.org> <4AB3FE0B.2060406@wxs.nl> <20090918223847.GB30581@crud.chemoelectric.org> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1253379196 13132 80.91.229.12 (19 Sep 2009 16:53:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:53:16 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Sep 19 18:53:09 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Mp3BL-0004RK-Sz for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:53:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28BFC9ABB; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:53:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id F+p4qBVLbrxv; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:53:02 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF27C9A92; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:53:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83CCC9A92 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:52:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id v1noMgoXEcsa for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:52:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail.pragma-ade.net (dsl-083-247-100-017.solcon.nl [83.247.100.17]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351C5C9A90 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:52:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from [10.100.1.100] (unverified [10.100.1.100]) by controller-1 (SurgeMail 3.9e) with ESMTP id 9414-1840426 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:52:53 +0200 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) In-Reply-To: <20090918223847.GB30581@crud.chemoelectric.org> X-Originating-IP: 10.100.1.100 X-Authenticated-User: hagen@controller-1 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:53023 Archived-At: Barry Schwartz wrote: > Hans Hagen skribis: >> but even then, if a font is not clear about issues, then one can get >> unwanted side effects (the frac feature for instance is often quite >> bugged and can only be applied selectively) > > Yeah, I think trying to be fancy with contextual substitutions is a > bit like getting drunk. I'm not even sure why there was a "frac" tag > when it was originally intended to be converted to "numr" and "dnom" > tags. > > (I just looked at > http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec160/features_fj.htm#frac > to see what it says nowadays and now want to go get drunk.) actually the frac featurs, like most features is a rather generic one and as such it should work out of the box (some of the justitication features use gpos and/or assume specific renderer support, and some of that is rather undefined) so, its not that frac itself is the problem dealing with in the engine, because if so, many features would be a problem, it's just that font makers stick to a couple of simple rules like: (1) replace all by (1) replace all by and if they have rule 2, it will mess up things like a/b of course it can be properly dealt with ... just make proper rules now, one reason that metafont kind of design tools never were accepted as basic tool for font design is that designers are no programmers; and one needs programmers (or at least some of the related mindset) to make the more complex ot fonts (or one needs teams) actually, as many fonts do have the sup/sub digits its rather trivial to provide proper frac's in mkiv but till now i had no reason (time, project, etc) for doing it i fear the moment when designers start giving me rules like "use this or that font and turn on those features" assuming dtp like control and tweaking of the text (one reason for spending much time on fonts in mkiv is that it will give me control over bad behaving fonts; think of wrong glyph to unicode mapping and such) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________