defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Florian Wobbe]

Hi Hans,

in symb-mis.mkiv you define most symbols with \mathematics. I don't know why you take these symbols from the math font. Just in case the symbol does not exist in the regular font, I would guess.

Problem is only, that you will loose most symbols when switching the math font to something else than computer-modern (I tested with euler and cambria). BTW: I wonder how many contexters use modern for math...

Anyway it appears most fonts have geometric shapes and common symbols and dingbats. So I end up redefining the symbols:

\definesymbol [bullet]    [\textbullet]
\definesymbol [dash]      [--]
\definesymbol [star]      [\char"2734]
\definesymbol [triangle]  [\char"25B6]
\definesymbol [square]    [\char"25A0]
\definesymbol [diamond]   [\char"25C6]
\definesymbol [checkmark] [\char"2713]

Also it looks nicer when you use item symbols matching the text font.

Maybe you would consider this and prefer symbols from the text font rather than those from the math font and keep \mathematics only as fall back should the glyph be unavailable.

Cheers,
Florian
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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:39, Florian Wobbe wrote:
>
> BTW: I wonder how many contexters use modern for math...

I guess many. (Out of those who use ConTeXt for any math at all which
is a small enough group itself.)

Alternatives are only commercial Cambria and Lucida (which don't ship
by default), palatino, times (both ugly to me), Antykwa Torunska (not
suitable for serious documents), Euler, MnSymbol lacks ConTeXt support
... (maybe I forgot a few).

This doesn't give you much choice for math font. (But it is also not
too relevant in this context.)

Mojca
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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[C.]

...and I was just about to ask how to use MnSymbol with context. What a shame.
Any suggestions for a decent looking math font that pairs well with Minion?

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Mojca Miklavec [mailto:mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Februar 2011 10:52
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] defined symbols - question/feature suggestion
> 
> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:39, Florian Wobbe wrote:
> >
> > BTW: I wonder how many contexters use modern for math...
> 
> I guess many. (Out of those who use ConTeXt for any math at all which is a
> small enough group itself.)
> 
> Alternatives are only commercial Cambria and Lucida (which don't ship by
> default), palatino, times (both ugly to me), Antykwa Torunska (not suitable
> for serious documents), Euler, MnSymbol lacks ConTeXt support ... (maybe I
> forgot a few).
> 
> This doesn't give you much choice for math font. (But it is also not too
> relevant in this context.)
> 
> Mojca


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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Hans Hagen]

On 18-2-2011 10:39, Florian Wobbe wrote:
> Hi Hans,
>
> in symb-mis.mkiv you define most symbols with \mathematics. I don't know why you take these symbols from the math font. Just in case the symbol does not exist in the regular font, I would guess.
>
> Problem is only, that you will loose most symbols when switching the math font to something else than computer-modern (I tested with euler and cambria). BTW: I wonder how many contexters use modern for math...
>
> Anyway it appears most fonts have geometric shapes and common symbols and dingbats. So I end up redefining the symbols:
>
> \definesymbol [bullet]    [\textbullet]
> \definesymbol [dash]      [--]
> \definesymbol [star]      [\char"2734]
> \definesymbol [triangle]  [\char"25B6]
> \definesymbol [square]    [\char"25A0]
> \definesymbol [diamond]   [\char"25C6]
> \definesymbol [checkmark] [\char"2713]
>
> Also it looks nicer when you use item symbols matching the text font.
>
> Maybe you would consider this and prefer symbols from the text font rather than those from the math font and keep \mathematics only as fall back should the glyph be unavailable.

It is on the agenda to look into this. These definitions relate to the 
fact that not all fonts had/have such characters. Also, textbullet is 
normally way too small for my taste. References like \char"25B6 are 
likely to fail on most fonts



Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Hans Hagen]

On 18-2-2011 10:39, Florian Wobbe wrote:
> Hi Hans,
>
> in symb-mis.mkiv you define most symbols with \mathematics. I don't know why you take these symbols from the math font. Just in case the symbol does not exist in the regular font, I would guess.
>
> Problem is only, that you will loose most symbols when switching the math font to something else than computer-modern (I tested with euler and cambria). BTW: I wonder how many contexters use modern for math...
>
> Anyway it appears most fonts have geometric shapes and common symbols and dingbats. So I end up redefining the symbols:
>
> \definesymbol [bullet]    [\textbullet]
> \definesymbol [dash]      [--]
> \definesymbol [star]      [\char"2734]
> \definesymbol [triangle]  [\char"25B6]
> \definesymbol [square]    [\char"25A0]
> \definesymbol [diamond]   [\char"25C6]
> \definesymbol [checkmark] [\char"2713]
>
> Also it looks nicer when you use item symbols matching the text font.

a next beta will have

\definesymbol [bullet]        [\textormathchar{"2022}] % • \bullet
\definesymbol [dash]          [\textormathchar{"2013}] % –
\definesymbol [star]          [\textormathchar{"22C6}] % ✴ \star
\definesymbol [triangle]      [\textormathchar{"22B3}] % ⊳ \triangleright
\definesymbol [circle]        [\textormathchar{"2218}] % ∘ \circ
\definesymbol [square]        [\textormathchar{"25A1}] % □ \square
\definesymbol [diamond]       [\textormathchar{"22C4}] % ⋄ \diamond
\definesymbol [checkmark]     [\textormathchar{"2713}] % ✓ \checkmark

\definesymbol [blacktriangle] [\textormathchar{"25B6}] % ▶
\definesymbol [blacksquare]   [\textormathchar{"25A0}] % ■
\definesymbol [blackdiamond]  [\textormathchar{"25C6}] % ◆

but it's experimental (and fonts like cambria don't have all of them)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Johannes Kuester]

On 02/18/2011 02:50 PM, C. wrote:
> ...and I was just about to ask how to use MnSymbol with context. What a shame.
> Any suggestions for a decent looking math font that pairs well with Minion?

Minion Math.

See http://www.typoma.com/en/fonts.html

-- 
Johannes Kuester
typoma

mailto:jk@typoma.com
http://www.typoma.com
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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[C.]

I see.
So from your and all the other responses I take that matching math font for Minion is not available until
(I) Minion Math supports ConTeXt (= commercial?!)
(II) Somebody ports MnSymbol files to ConTeXt

Possible - yes, available right now - no.
Sadly, I do not have the necessary skill to do (II).
Oh well...

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Johannes Kuester [mailto:jk@typoma.com]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Februar 2011 20:29
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] defined symbols - question/feature suggestion
> 
> On 02/18/2011 02:50 PM, C. wrote:
> > ...and I was just about to ask how to use MnSymbol with context. What a
> shame.
> > Any suggestions for a decent looking math font that pairs well with Minion?
> 
> Minion Math.
> 
> See http://www.typoma.com/en/fonts.html
> 
> --
> Johannes Kuester
> typoma
> 
> mailto:jk@typoma.com
> http://www.typoma.com


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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-2-2011 12:24, C. wrote:
> I see.
> So from your and all the other responses I take that matching math font for Minion is not available until
> (I) Minion Math supports ConTeXt (= commercial?!)
> (II) Somebody ports MnSymbol files to ConTeXt

Isn't the minion math companion an opentype math font then? Open type 
math works out of the box. For type1's one needs to create a definition 
set (not that complex if tex default encoding is used).

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 20.02.2011 um 00:40 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> On 20-2-2011 12:24, C. wrote:
>> I see.
>> So from your and all the other responses I take that matching math font for Minion is not available until
>> (I) Minion Math supports ConTeXt (= commercial?!)
>> (II) Somebody ports MnSymbol files to ConTeXt
> 
> Isn't the minion math companion an opentype math font then? Open type math works out of the box. For type1's one needs to create a definition set (not that complex if tex default encoding is used).

MnSymbol provides only operators and braces, latin and greek letters are taken from the Minion text fonts.

Wolfgang

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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Johannes Kuester]

On 02/20/2011 12:40 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 20-2-2011 12:24, C. wrote:
>> I see.
>> So from your and all the other responses I take that matching math
>> font for Minion is not available until
>> (I) Minion Math supports ConTeXt (= commercial?!)
>> (II) Somebody ports MnSymbol files to ConTeXt
> 
> Isn't the minion math companion an opentype math font then? Open type
> math works out of the box. For type1's one needs to create a definition
> set (not that complex if tex default encoding is used).

The Minion Math fonts are OpenType fonts. The next release (March 2011,
hopefully) will include the OpenType MATH table. And ConTeXt support.
For ConTeXt I haven't tested yet what will work out of the box and what
will need additional support (e.g. to access additional characters
encoded in the PUA; to access the 4 weights and the optical sizes).

And yes, the fonts are commercial. But Minion itself is commercial as
well. Of course all support files (for ConTeXt, LaTeX, ...) are / will
be available for free.

Johannes


-- 
Johannes Kuester
typoma

mailto:jk@typoma.com
http://www.typoma.com
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Re: defined symbols - question/feature suggestion

[Florian Wobbe]

> a next beta will have
> 
> \definesymbol [bullet]        [\textormathchar{"2022}] % • \bullet
> \definesymbol [dash]          [\textormathchar{"2013}] % –
> \definesymbol [star]          [\textormathchar{"22C6}] % ✴ \star
> \definesymbol [triangle]      [\textormathchar{"22B3}] % ⊳ \triangleright
> \definesymbol [circle]        [\textormathchar{"2218}] % ∘ \circ
> \definesymbol [square]        [\textormathchar{"25A1}] % □ \square
> \definesymbol [diamond]       [\textormathchar{"22C4}] % ⋄ \diamond
> \definesymbol [checkmark]     [\textormathchar{"2713}] % ✓ \checkmark
> 
> \definesymbol [blacktriangle] [\textormathchar{"25B6}] % ▶
> \definesymbol [blacksquare]   [\textormathchar{"25A0}] % ■
> \definesymbol [blackdiamond]  [\textormathchar{"25C6}] % ◆
> 
> but it's experimental (and fonts like cambria don't have all of them)

Thanks Hans,

\startsymbolset and \setupsymbolset are very convenient to quickly change between different sets of symbols.

Florian

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