indent lost after \placefigure

indent lost after \placefigure

[Tom]

When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at
least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is
lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the
years.

Tom Benjey
717-258-9733 voice
717-243-0074 fax
Twitter: @TomBenjey





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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom:
> When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
> splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at
> least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is
> lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the
> years.
>    
\setupfloats[indentnext=yes]

Wolfgang

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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Thursday 11 February 2010 05:07:15 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom:
> > When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
> > splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at
> > least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure,
> > is lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the
> > years.
> 
> \setupfloats[indentnext=yes]
> 

Can someone explain the design behind placefigure?
Indeed, I would expect it to create a float that is then placed
as best as possible according to certain criteria.
But it appears to be oriented towards only a certain use:
before or between paragraphs as it imposes a line break.
I have never understood the logic of this.

I would like to declare a float at any point, even in the middle
of a paragraph (for example, at the first instance referring to the
figure), so that the figure or table will be placed at the first instance
possible following the reference. Currently, this imposes a line break
(which makes sense for \placefigure [force] but not necessairly in other 
cases).

As things stand now, I find that I must declare my floats either
before or after the paragraph containing the figure or table reference.
The float then may appear before or long after its text reference,
in particular if the paragraph is long.

Furthermore, \setupfloats [indentnext=yes] is somewhat strange.
I suppose that it might make sense not to indent a new paragraph
following a section title, etc. but does it really make sense not
to indent a NEW paragraph following a break such as a displayed
figure, table, or formula, etc.?

Alan
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Taco Hoekwater]

Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> 
> Furthermore, \setupfloats [indentnext=yes] is somewhat strange.
> I suppose that it might make sense not to indent a new paragraph
> following a section title, etc. but does it really make sense not
> to indent a NEW paragraph following a break such as a displayed
> figure, table, or formula, etc.?

Definitely so: almost all of the (non-science) layout specifications
I have seen in my professional work request exactly this behavior.

Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Thursday 11 February 2010 08:57:21 Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> On Thursday 11 February 2010 05:07:15 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> > Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom:
> > > When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
> > > splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of
> > > at least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the
> > > figure, is lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some
> > > people over the years.
> >
> > \setupfloats[indentnext=yes]
> 

An opposite "feature" is also strange - minimal example:

\setupindenting [medium,yes]
\starttext
A paragraph, including an itemized list:
\startitemize [joinedup,packed]
\item first
\item second
\stopitemize
The following text is indented. It is not a new paragraph.
\stoptext

Alan
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Peter Münster]

On Thu, Feb 11 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:

> An opposite "feature" is also strange - minimal example:
> 
> \setupindenting [medium,yes]
> \starttext
> A paragraph, including an itemized list:
> \startitemize [joinedup,packed]
> \item first
> \item second
> \stopitemize
> The following text is indented. It is not a new paragraph.
> \stoptext

\setupitemize[indentnext=auto] % should be default value everywhere IMHO

Cheers, Peter

-- 
Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/


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automatic lettrine

[Alan BRASLAU]

I like the \usemodule [lettrine] package
(a quick and dirty conversion of the LaTeX package of the same name).

It would be nice to include this functionality (perhaps cleaned-up)
in the ConTeXt base macros. Then, it would also be nice to be able
to activate an automatic mechanism to begin a first paragraph
at some level (\chapter, \section, ... as defined, by default none)
with a lettrine without having to explicitly use:

\lettrine{O}{nce} upon a time...

Alan
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Thursday 11 February 2010 02:14:12 Tom wrote:
> When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
> splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at
> least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is
> lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the
> years.

On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:23:43 Peter Münster wrote:
> 
> \setupitemize[indentnext=auto] % should be default value everywhere IMHO
> 

So here is the `bug' related to this entire thread -- minimal example:

\setupindenting [medium,yes]
\setupfloats [indentnext=auto]

\starttext
\input knuth
\placefigure [here] {none} {\externalfigure [cow]}

\input knuth
\stoptext

Doesn't work, but \setupfloats [indentnext=yes]
forces knuth after the figure to be indented.

Alan

PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than indentnext=auto.

*OK, perhaps \setupheads...

PPS: Subject: What do you miss in ConTeXt?
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 19:51:13 Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> \composemanual [title="The real context manual",writingstyle=knuth]
> 
Let's do it!
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:

> PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
> why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than indentnext=auto.

Below is my understanding of ConTeXt's design principle (Hans or Taco should
correct me if I am wrong). Content should be separate from presentation. This
means that indentation should be a function of semantics, and not of how you
format your source. So

     some text ...
     \startitemize
       \item
       \item
     \stopitemize
     some more text

and

     some text

     \startitemize
        \item
        \item
     \stopitemize

     some more text ...

should give the same result. If you want an item group that does not start a
paragraph, and an item group that starts a new paragraph, then they are two
different objects and you should define two different environments for them.

     \defineitemgroup[spitemize] %single para
                     [indentnext=no,
                      before=\blank,
                      after=\blank]

    \defineitemgroup[mpitemize] %multi para
                    [indentnext=yes,
                     before={\blank[big]},
                     after={\blank[big]}]


Then you can use \startspitemize or \startmpitemize dependening on what you
want. The way you format the source does not matter.

Aditya
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:55:01 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> > PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
> > why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than
> > indentnext=auto.
> 
> Below is my understanding of ConTeXt's design principle (Hans or Taco
>  should correct me if I am wrong). Content should be separate from
>  presentation. This means that indentation should be a function of
>  semantics, and not of how you format your source. So
> 
>      some text ...
>      \startitemize
>        \item
>        \item
>      \stopitemize
>      some more text
> 
> and
> 
>      some text
> 
>      \startitemize
>         \item
>         \item
>      \stopitemize
> 
>      some more text ...
> 
> should give the same result. If you want an item group that does not start
>  a paragraph, and an item group that starts a new paragraph, then they are
>  two different objects and you should define two different environments for
>  them.
> 
>      \defineitemgroup[spitemize] %single para
>                      [indentnext=no,
>                       before=\blank,
>                       after=\blank]
> 
>     \defineitemgroup[mpitemize] %multi para
>                     [indentnext=yes,
>                      before={\blank[big]},
>                      after={\blank[big]}]
> 
> 
> Then you can use \startspitemize or \startmpitemize dependening on what you
> want. The way you format the source does not matter.
> 
> Aditya

That is really "ugly": different cases of itemize...

If indeed the design principle that you describe is true,
then I would *strongly* argue that one should get rid of
a blank line separating paragraphs and *require* the use of \par

I don't totally agree with this, as I think that the document source
should look as simple as possible, and paragraphs separated by blank
lines do a lot to make the text readable, more so than

\par
A new paragraph.

Alan
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:

> On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:55:01 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
>>> PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
>>> why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than
>>> indentnext=auto.
>>
>> Below is my understanding of ConTeXt's design principle (Hans or Taco
>>  should correct me if I am wrong). Content should be separate from
>>  presentation. This means that indentation should be a function of
>>  semantics, and not of how you format your source. So
>>
>>      some text ...
>>      \startitemize
>>        \item
>>        \item
>>      \stopitemize
>>      some more text
>>
>> and
>>
>>      some text
>>
>>      \startitemize
>>         \item
>>         \item
>>      \stopitemize
>>
>>      some more text ...
>>
>> should give the same result. If you want an item group that does not start
>>  a paragraph, and an item group that starts a new paragraph, then they are
>>  two different objects and you should define two different environments for
>>  them.
>>
>>      \defineitemgroup[spitemize] %single para
>>                      [indentnext=no,
>>                       before=\blank,
>>                       after=\blank]
>>
>>     \defineitemgroup[mpitemize] %multi para
>>                     [indentnext=yes,
>>                      before={\blank[big]},
>>                      after={\blank[big]}]
>>
>>
>> Then you can use \startspitemize or \startmpitemize dependening on what you
>> want. The way you format the source does not matter.
>>
>> Aditya
>
> That is really "ugly": different cases of itemize...

Agreed. That is a matter of personal preference. you can always add 
indentnext=auto to \setupitemize (I always do that for formulas) or 
indentnext=yes|no to individual itemize.

> If indeed the design principle that you describe is true,

what I said was how I understand things, and I may be completely wrong 
here.

> then I would *strongly* argue that one should get rid of
> a blank line separating paragraphs and *require* the use of \par

AFAIU, tex does not differentiate between blank lines and \par 
(unless you change the catcode of eol).

> I don't totally agree with this, as I think that the document source
> should look as simple as possible, and paragraphs separated by blank
> lines do a lot to make the text readable, more so than

And I am suggesting that adding blank lines around ALL environments, 
without changing the output.

In any case, ConTeXt is flexible to allow you to use whichever style you 
prefer. It just defaults to one thing. You can have a 'autoindent' module 
that adds indent=auto to all \setup commands.

Aditya
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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Tom]

This works, but my problem may be self-inflicted by my code for chapter
first pages. I want different a different first page format for the
introduction, contents and appendices than I have for regular chapters. I
suppose that \chapter can be fed parameters other than the chapter name, but
can't find them described in the manual. It isn't clear to me if \setuphead
can be used for these non-standard "chapters."

Tom 

-----Original Message-----
From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl] On
Behalf Of Alan BRASLAU
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 AM
To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure

On Thursday 11 February 2010 02:14:12 Tom wrote:
> When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
> splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at
> least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is
> lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the
> years.

On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:23:43 Peter Münster wrote:
> 
> \setupitemize[indentnext=auto] % should be default value everywhere IMHO
> 

So here is the `bug' related to this entire thread -- minimal example:

\setupindenting [medium,yes]
\setupfloats [indentnext=auto]

\starttext
\input knuth
\placefigure [here] {none} {\externalfigure [cow]}

\input knuth
\stoptext

Doesn't work, but \setupfloats [indentnext=yes]
forces knuth after the figure to be indented.

Alan

PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than
indentnext=auto.

*OK, perhaps \setupheads...

PPS: Subject: What do you miss in ConTeXt?
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 19:51:13 Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> \composemanual [title="The real context manual",writingstyle=knuth]
> 
Let's do it!
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chapter headers (was: indent lost after \placefigure)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 11.02.10 20:50, schrieb Tom:
> This works, but my problem may be self-inflicted by my code for chapter
> first pages. I want different a different first page format for the
> introduction, contents and appendices than I have for regular chapters. I
> suppose that \chapter can be fed parameters other than the chapter name, but
> can't find them described in the manual. It isn't clear to me if \setuphead
> can be used for these non-standard "chapters."
>    
you can use context’s document structure environments and change the layout
for the chapter pages in the front- and backmatter

\startsectionblockenvironment[frontpart]

\setuphead[chapter][...]

\stopsectionblockenvironment

\startsectionblockenvironment[appendix]

\setuphead[chapter][...]

\stopsectionblockenvironment

\starttext

\startfrontmatter

\chapterIntroduction}

\complecontent

\stopfrontmatter

\startbodymatter

% the content

\stopbodymatter

\startappendices

\chapter{A appendix chapter}

\stopappendices

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: chapter headers (was: indent lost after \placefigure)

[Tom]

Thanks, this is very helpful. I do have a couple of questions, though.

Should I insert a section for the body of the text something like this?

\startsectionblockenvironment[bodypart]

\setuphead[chapter][...]

\stopsectionblockenvironment


\completecontent causes two blank (except for header) to be produced before
the table of contents but \placecontent doesn't. It doesn't seem to me that
the extra pages should be created. Could I have done something that caused
this?

Tom 




-----Original Message-----
From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl] On
Behalf Of Wolfgang Schuster
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 2:59 PM
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Subject: [NTG-context] chapter headers (was: indent lost after \placefigure)

Am 11.02.10 20:50, schrieb Tom:
> This works, but my problem may be self-inflicted by my code for chapter
> first pages. I want different a different first page format for the
> introduction, contents and appendices than I have for regular chapters. I
> suppose that \chapter can be fed parameters other than the chapter name,
but
> can't find them described in the manual. It isn't clear to me if
\setuphead
> can be used for these non-standard "chapters."
>    
you can use context's document structure environments and change the layout
for the chapter pages in the front- and backmatter

\startsectionblockenvironment[frontpart]

\setuphead[chapter][...]

\stopsectionblockenvironment

\startsectionblockenvironment[appendix]

\setuphead[chapter][...]

\stopsectionblockenvironment

\starttext

\startfrontmatter

\chapterIntroduction}

\complecontent

\stopfrontmatter

\startbodymatter

% the content

\stopbodymatter

\startappendices

\chapter{A appendix chapter}

\stopappendices

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: chapter headers

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 11.02.10 22:41, schrieb Tom:
> Thanks, this is very helpful. I do have a couple of questions, though.
>
> Should I insert a section for the body of the text something like this?
>
> \startsectionblockenvironment[bodypart]
>
> \setuphead[chapter][...]
>
> \stopsectionblockenvironment
>    
You can do this but you don't have to, general settings for the headers 
in all
blocks can be done outside of the sectionblock environment and only 
certain setups
should be done in the block.
> \completecontent causes two blank (except for header) to be produced before
> the table of contents but \placecontent doesn't. It doesn't seem to me that
> the extra pages should be created. Could I have done something that caused
> this?
>    
Who knows, i can't see what you did in your document from here.

\completecontents insert a header before the TOC while the \placecontent
produce only the TOC without a header.

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: chapter headers

[Tom]

Wolfgang,

I found a spurious ] in the setuphead for the frontpart. Somehow it didn't
cause a compile error but was treated as text that I didn't notice at first.

Because I want the first pages of regular chapters to look different than
those for the contents, introduction and index, I created a
sectionblockenvironment and a setuphead for the regular chapters.

Now to figure out how to keep page numbering from starting until the
introduction without putting special code in that chapter. 

Tom 

-----Original Message-----
From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl] On
Behalf Of Wolfgang Schuster
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:10 PM
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] chapter headers

Am 11.02.10 22:41, schrieb Tom:
> Thanks, this is very helpful. I do have a couple of questions, though.
>
> Should I insert a section for the body of the text something like this?
>
> \startsectionblockenvironment[bodypart]
>
> \setuphead[chapter][...]
>
> \stopsectionblockenvironment
>    
You can do this but you don't have to, general settings for the headers 
in all
blocks can be done outside of the sectionblock environment and only 
certain setups
should be done in the block.
> \completecontent causes two blank (except for header) to be produced
before
> the table of contents but \placecontent doesn't. It doesn't seem to me
that
> the extra pages should be created. Could I have done something that caused
> this?
>    
Who knows, i can't see what you did in your document from here.

\completecontents insert a header before the TOC while the \placecontent
produce only the TOC without a header.

Wolfgang

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Re: indent lost after \placefigure

[Tom Benjey]

Is there something else I should do? I still have 2 instances of the
paragraph immediately after a figure not indented. Both of these are on the
tops of their respective pages. And I have one paragraph just before a
figure that is not indented. I tried \indenting[yes] for the paragraphs in
question to no avail.

Tom Benjey
717-258-9733 voice
717-243-0074 fax
Twitter: @TomBenjey

Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom:
> When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if 
> it splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation 
> of at least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the 
> figure, is lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some 
> people over the years.
>    
\setupfloats[indentnext=yes]

Wolfgang








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