Lucida Fonts with MKIV

Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Troy Henderson]

I am a LaTeX user for about 15 years, but I am very new ConTeXt.  I am
having trouble using the complete set of Lucida fonts purchased from
TUG.

http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/

I have followed the first set of instructions at

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida

and the fonts work great for MKII (texexec).  When building the same
document (that works for MKIV) with MKIV (context), the text fonts are
fine but the math fonts are set in Roman instead instead of math.   Is
there an easy way to adapt the configuration file(s) for MKII to MKIV?
 If this is possible but just requires a tedious process, I'm willing
to do this, but I have no clue of the steps needed.

I would appreciate any advice.

Troy Henderson
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Troy Henderson]

> When building the same document (that works for MKIV)

Typo. I mean that work for MKII

> with MKIV (context), the text fonts are ...

Troy
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[luigi scarso]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Troy Henderson <thenders@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am a LaTeX user for about 15 years, but I am very new ConTeXt.  I am
> having trouble using the complete set of Lucida fonts purchased from
> TUG.
>
> http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/
>
> I have followed the first set of instructions at
>
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida
>
> and the fonts work great for MKII (texexec).  When building the same
> document (that works for MKIV) with MKIV (context), the text fonts are
> fine but the math fonts are set in Roman instead instead of math.   Is
> there an easy way to adapt the configuration file(s) for MKII to MKIV?
>  If this is possible but just requires a tedious process, I'm willing
> to do this, but I have no clue of the steps needed.
>
> I would appreciate any advice.

Maybe simplefonts can help you
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Fonts_in_LuaTeX#With_the__simplefonts_module
-- 
luigi
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-2-2010 14:50, Troy Henderson wrote:
> I am a LaTeX user for about 15 years, but I am very new ConTeXt.  I am
> having trouble using the complete set of Lucida fonts purchased from
> TUG.
>
> http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/
>
> I have followed the first set of instructions at
>
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida
>
> and the fonts work great for MKII (texexec).  When building the same
> document (that works for MKIV) with MKIV (context), the text fonts are
> fine but the math fonts are set in Roman instead instead of math.   Is
> there an easy way to adapt the configuration file(s) for MKII to MKIV?
>   If this is possible but just requires a tedious process, I'm willing
> to do this, but I have no clue of the steps needed.
>
> I would appreciate any advice.

how did you set up your lucida fonts in mkiv?

(hard to test here as i only have the former yandy lucidas)

Hans

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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-2-2010 14:50, Troy Henderson wrote:
> I am a LaTeX user for about 15 years, but I am very new ConTeXt.  I am
> having trouble using the complete set of Lucida fonts purchased from
> TUG.
>
> http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/
>
> I have followed the first set of instructions at
>
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida
>
> and the fonts work great for MKII (texexec).  When building the same
> document (that works for MKIV) with MKIV (context), the text fonts are
> fine but the math fonts are set in Roman instead instead of math.   Is
> there an easy way to adapt the configuration file(s) for MKII to MKIV?
>   If this is possible but just requires a tedious process, I'm willing
> to do this, but I have no clue of the steps needed.
>
> I would appreciate any advice.

This sort of works apart from math. The problem with lucida is that it 
was originally shipped by yandy and when tug took over the metric files 
were not keps as is (or even shipped) but changed to different names 
(hlcra.tfm etc) and these don't ship with texlive so i cannot test (i 
have the original lucida maths fonts).

This leave all those who bought lucida in the past without proper 
support. As the metrics etc were made for latex, latex users probably 
don't notice this, but tex users who rolled out their own font code (or 
other packages) are crippled by this.

Maybe the minimals should ship those lucida math tfm files (i don't know 
if there are vf files too). I'm not going to buy new lucida math fonts.

for mkiv lucida math is turned into a virtual unicode font (math-vfu) 
but as said i cannot test it without the proper metrics; actually, these 
math fonts is the only place where mkiv still uses tfm files

\starttypescript [serif] [lucida] [name]
	\usetypescript[serif][fallback]
	\definefontsynonym[Serif]          [name:LucidaBright]
	\definefontsynonym[SerifBold]      [name:LucidaBright-Demi]
	\definefontsynonym[SerifItalic]    [name:LucidaBright-Italic]
	\definefontsynonym[SerifBoldItalic][name:LucidaBright-DemiItalic]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [sans] [lucida] [name]
	\usetypescript[sans][fallback]
	\definefontsynonym[Sans]			[name:LucidaSans]
	\definefontsynonym[SansItalic]		[name:LucidaSans-Oblique]
	\definefontsynonym[SansBold]    	[name:LucidaSans-Demi]
	\definefontsynonym[SansBoldItalic]	[name:LucidaSans-DemiOblique]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [mono] [lucida] [name]
	\usetypescript[mono][fallback]
	\definefontsynonym[Mono]			[name:LucidaSans-Typewriter]
	\definefontsynonym[MonoItalic]		[name:LucidaSans-TypewriterOblique]
	\definefontsynonym[MonoBold]		[name:LucidaSans-TypewriterBold]
	\definefontsynonym[MonoBoldItalic]	[name:LucidaSans-TypewriterBoldOblique]
\stoptypescript


\definetypeface[MyLucida][rm][serif][lucida][default][features=default]
\definetypeface[MyLucida][ss][sans] [lucida][default][features=default]
\definetypeface[MyLucida][tt][mono] [lucida][default][features=default]
\definetypeface[MyLucida][mm][math] [lucida][default]

\setupbodyfont[MyLucida]

\starttext

test $x$

\stoptext


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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Mikael Persson]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 19-2-2010 14:50, Troy Henderson wrote:
>>
>> I am a LaTeX user for about 15 years, but I am very new ConTeXt.  I am
>> having trouble using the complete set of Lucida fonts purchased from
>> TUG.
>>
>> http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/
>>
>> I have followed the first set of instructions at
>>
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida
>>
>> and the fonts work great for MKII (texexec).  When building the same
>> document (that works for MKIV) with MKIV (context), the text fonts are
>> fine but the math fonts are set in Roman instead instead of math.   Is
>> there an easy way to adapt the configuration file(s) for MKII to MKIV?
>>  If this is possible but just requires a tedious process, I'm willing
>> to do this, but I have no clue of the steps needed.
>>
>> I would appreciate any advice.
>
> This sort of works apart from math. The problem with lucida is that it was
> originally shipped by yandy and when tug took over the metric files were not
> keps as is (or even shipped) but changed to different names (hlcra.tfm etc)
> and these don't ship with texlive so i cannot test (i have the original
> lucida maths fonts).
>
> This leave all those who bought lucida in the past without proper support.
> As the metrics etc were made for latex, latex users probably don't notice
> this, but tex users who rolled out their own font code (or other packages)
> are crippled by this.
>
> Maybe the minimals should ship those lucida math tfm files (i don't know if
> there are vf files too). I'm not going to buy new lucida math fonts.
>
> for mkiv lucida math is turned into a virtual unicode font (math-vfu) but as
> said i cannot test it without the proper metrics; actually, these math fonts
> is the only place where mkiv still uses tfm files
>
> \starttypescript [serif] [lucida] [name]
>        \usetypescript[serif][fallback]
>        \definefontsynonym[Serif]          [name:LucidaBright]
>        \definefontsynonym[SerifBold]      [name:LucidaBright-Demi]
>        \definefontsynonym[SerifItalic]    [name:LucidaBright-Italic]
>        \definefontsynonym[SerifBoldItalic][name:LucidaBright-DemiItalic]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [sans] [lucida] [name]
>        \usetypescript[sans][fallback]
>        \definefontsynonym[Sans]                        [name:LucidaSans]
>        \definefontsynonym[SansItalic]          [name:LucidaSans-Oblique]
>        \definefontsynonym[SansBold]            [name:LucidaSans-Demi]
>        \definefontsynonym[SansBoldItalic]      [name:LucidaSans-DemiOblique]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [mono] [lucida] [name]
>        \usetypescript[mono][fallback]
>        \definefontsynonym[Mono]
>  [name:LucidaSans-Typewriter]
>        \definefontsynonym[MonoItalic]
>  [name:LucidaSans-TypewriterOblique]
>        \definefontsynonym[MonoBold]
>  [name:LucidaSans-TypewriterBold]
>        \definefontsynonym[MonoBoldItalic]
>  [name:LucidaSans-TypewriterBoldOblique]
> \stoptypescript
>
>
> \definetypeface[MyLucida][rm][serif][lucida][default][features=default]
> \definetypeface[MyLucida][ss][sans] [lucida][default][features=default]
> \definetypeface[MyLucida][tt][mono] [lucida][default][features=default]
> \definetypeface[MyLucida][mm][math] [lucida][default]
>
> \setupbodyfont[MyLucida]
>
> \starttext
>
> test $x$
>
> \stoptext
>

This is a bit funny, because the problem that Troy has with upright
math seems to be exactly the same problem I have with mathdesign,
described in the post
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100217.211052.21a3f6f3.en.html

Could it be that something in math-vfu.lua (or elsewhere) is not
correct? (I have played with that file, but not succeeded in getting
it to work, and the lucida fonts are also handled in that file).

Mikael
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Troy Henderson]

> how did you set up your lucida fonts in mkiv?

First of all, I did not setup Lucida for MKIV (specifically).  The
following fonts come with the complete Lucida set from TUG:

46 AFM's
41 PFB's
42 PFM's
164 TFM's
63 VF's

I placed all 356 of these font files into the same directory (ignoring
directory structure) as well as the following three files

lucida.ali
lucida.map
texnansi-yandy-luc.tex

I simply followed these steps from http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida

1) Downloaded lucida-complete.zip from TUG one year ago and extracted
the files into my /usr/local/share/texmf tree.  I followed the
instructions located at

http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/README.TUG

to ensure that they worked in LaTeX (and they have for the last year)

2) I copied all files (not just the AFM and PFB as the instructions
suggested) into the temporary directory (as indicated above)

3) Executed the following command:

texfont --fontroot=/opt/context-minimals/tex/texmf-local --ve=yandy
--co=luc --ma --in --expert

4) Downloaded and extracted the following file into
/opt/context-minimals/tex/texmf-local

http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules/lucida-cint.zip-0.9.zip

5) Nothing to do

6) Copied the type-luc.tex (provided by lucida-cint.zip-0.9.zip) into

/opt/context-minimals/tex/texmf-local/tex/context/base

7) Copied the cont-sys.tex (located originally in
/opt/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base) into

/opt/context-minimals/tex/texmf-local/tex/context/user

and edited it adding the line

\usetypescriptfile[type-luc]

8) Executed `mktexlsr`

9) and 10) Added the following code to the preface of my ConTeXt document

\usetypescript[luc][texnansi]
\setupformulas[method=bold]
\setupbodyfont[luc,10pt]
\enablemathcollection[lbr]
\usemathcollection[lbr]

Notice that the line

\input math-lbr

was omitted because it is evidently not part of my ConTeXt minimals
installation (although it is in my TeX Live 2008 installation).

Now, by following these steps, I am able to successfully create
ConTeXt documents with Lucida fonts (with and without math) using MKII
(texexec).  However, using the same document with MKIV (context), the
document builds fine, all text and math is Lucida, but the math fonts
are upright (Roman).
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-2-2010 18:13, Troy Henderson wrote:

> Now, by following these steps, I am able to successfully create
> ConTeXt documents with Lucida fonts (with and without math) using MKII
> (texexec).  However, using the same document with MKIV (context), the
> document builds fine, all text and math is Lucida, but the math fonts
> are upright (Roman).

for mkiv you don't need those steps as we don't use any encoding except 
unicode

however, as we have no unicode lucida math, we create a virtual font for 
that on the fly

for that we need references to the relevant tfm files and i don't have 
these so i cannot test that

in mkiv, installing lucida should boil down to (assuming minimals):

- mkdir texmf-fonts/fonts/data/bh/lucida
- cp * texmf-fonts/fonts/data/bh/lucida
- luatools --generate

and then the few typescripts from the previous mail

However, the definition in math-vfu might not be ok but i cannot test 
that. If that zip is still the uptodate ltug one, can you mail it to me 
off-list?

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-2-2010 17:25, Mikael Persson wrote:

> This is a bit funny, because the problem that Troy has with upright
> math seems to be exactly the same problem I have with mathdesign,
> described in the post
> http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100217.211052.21a3f6f3.en.html

depends ... as long as those fonts have the normal tex encoding

> Could it be that something in math-vfu.lua (or elsewhere) is not
> correct? (I have played with that file, but not succeeded in getting
> it to work, and the lucida fonts are also handled in that file).

someone should figure what files of mathdesign make sense ... maybe the 
wrong one is used for math roman

Hans

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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Martin Schröder]

2010/2/19 Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
> Maybe the minimals should ship those lucida math tfm files (i don't know if
> there are vf files too). I'm not going to buy new lucida math fonts.

You get the new fonts for free if you already have the old ones (I
must find these discs :-).

http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/yyupgrade.html

Best
   Martin
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Hans Hagen]

On 19-2-2010 19:57, Martin Schröder wrote:
> 2010/2/19 Hans Hagen<pragma@wxs.nl>:
>> Maybe the minimals should ship those lucida math tfm files (i don't know if
>> there are vf files too). I'm not going to buy new lucida math fonts.
>
> You get the new fonts for free if you already have the old ones (I
> must find these discs :-).
>
> http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/yyupgrade.html

ah! thanks for noticing

i actually have kept those floppies but wonder if they're still readable

Hans


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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hello,

Here are some of my observations about Lucida fonts (font part for
now; math part comes later). I made a detailed check of files that are
present on CTAN.

I don't know how Hans' metric files look like, but:
- texfont --ve=yandy ... doesn't do anything here
- texfont --ve=bh ... creates a bunch of files, however *not* the T1
files which are of crucial importance to me; T1 (=ec) is only
supported via virtual fonts. (And even then the character looks just
about terrible, but still better than not having it at all.)

I have fixed the typescripts, so that one doesn't need to generate any
additional files apart from those present on CTAN (and we can also add
them to minimals, but it might be nice to cooperate with Hans first to
prevent any name clashes). I'll send the typescripts once I figure out
some problems, but:

1.) Hans, why does
     \definefontsynonym  [LucidaBright] [file:hlhr.pfb]
fail with the message below? (I can send a complete example off-list.)
How does one use pfb fonts then? Anyway, \definefontsynonym
[LucidaBright] [name:LucidaBright] works fine, so that's ok for now.
Using the accents in XeTeX would require extra tricks anyway, so
concentrating on pdftex and luatex seems reasonable.

2.) When reading typescripts for mkii with mkiv ("ec" encoding that is
based on virtual fonts), I don't get any accent at all, not even š and
ž that are part of texnansi encoding and are present in font. Why is
that?

3.) When creating a devoted mkiv typescript, č is missing (and so are
ćđ, but I can live without the two of them as long as Nino is not
nearby :), however not being able to use č is a no-go for me.

I'll get to math later. At the moment I had to figure out how the
files are organized and how to use them without having to depend on
texfont.

Mojca

---------------------------------

Here's the error when using [file:something.pfb] as file name:

! LuaTeX error ...cida/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/font-def.lua:308:
attempt to call field '?' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
	...cida/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/font-def.lua:308: in function 'read'
	...cida/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/font-def.lua:585: in function 'read'
	...cida/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/font-ctx.lua:367: in
function 'command_2'
	<main ctx instance>:1: in main chunk.
\lowleveldefinefont ...lax , "\relativefontid " )}
                                                  \edef \somefontspec {at \s...
\xxdododefinefont ...efont {#4}\newfontidentifier
                                                  \fi \csname \newfontidenti...
\applyfontclassstrategies ...\fontsize \endcsname
                                                  \else \expandafter \fontcl...
\synchronizefont ...lse \applyfontclassstrategies
                                                  \fi \autofontsizefalse \if...
\rm ->\ifmmode \mathrm \else \normalrm
                                       \fi
\doswitchstyle ...e \csname \@style@ #1\endcsname
                                                  \edef \fontstyle {#1}\ifmm...
...
l.9 \setupbodyfont[lucida]

?
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Troy Henderson]

I've also noticed that some of the math kerning seems a little off.
For example, with $y(x)$ the "y" seems to be way too close to the "(".
 I'm not sure how much of this is a difference in LaTeX (that I am
used to) and ConTeXt's spacing and how much is due to ConTeXt+Lucida.
Another example similar to this is $\sin(x)\cos(y)$.  The "n" in the
"sin" and the "s" in "cos" both seem a little close to the following
"(".  Perhaps the issue is with the "(" itself.

Troy
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 19.02.10 15:45, schrieb luigi scarso:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Troy Henderson<thenders@gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> I am a LaTeX user for about 15 years, but I am very new ConTeXt.  I am
>> having trouble using the complete set of Lucida fonts purchased from
>> TUG.
>>
>> http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/
>>
>> I have followed the first set of instructions at
>>
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida
>>
>> and the fonts work great for MKII (texexec).  When building the same
>> document (that works for MKIV) with MKIV (context), the text fonts are
>> fine but the math fonts are set in Roman instead instead of math.   Is
>> there an easy way to adapt the configuration file(s) for MKII to MKIV?
>>   If this is possible but just requires a tedious process, I'm willing
>> to do this, but I have no clue of the steps needed.
>>
>> I would appreciate any advice.
>>      
> Maybe simplefonts can help you
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Fonts_in_LuaTeX#With_the__simplefonts_module
>    
\usemodule[simplefonts]

\setmainfont        [Lucida Bright]
\setsansfont        [Lucida Sans]
\setmonofont        [Lucida Sans Typewriter]
\setmathfont        [Lucida New Math]
\sethandwritingfont [Lucida Handwriting Italic]
\setcalligraphicfont[Lucida Calligraphy Italic]

\starttext

\rm\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps

\ss\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps

\tt\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps

\hw\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps

\cg\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps

\startformula
c^2 = a^2 + b^2
\stopformula

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[luigi scarso]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Wolfgang Schuster
<schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am 19.02.10 15:45, schrieb luigi scarso:
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Troy Henderson<thenders@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I am a LaTeX user for about 15 years, but I am very new ConTeXt.  I am
>>> having trouble using the complete set of Lucida fonts purchased from
>>> TUG.
>>>
>>> http://www.tug.org/store/lucida/
>>>
>>> I have followed the first set of instructions at
>>>
>>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Lucida
>>>
>>> and the fonts work great for MKII (texexec).  When building the same
>>> document (that works for MKIV) with MKIV (context), the text fonts are
>>> fine but the math fonts are set in Roman instead instead of math.   Is
>>> there an easy way to adapt the configuration file(s) for MKII to MKIV?
>>>  If this is possible but just requires a tedious process, I'm willing
>>> to do this, but I have no clue of the steps needed.
>>>
>>> I would appreciate any advice.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe simplefonts can help you
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Fonts_in_LuaTeX#With_the__simplefonts_module
>>
>
> \usemodule[simplefonts]
>
> \setmainfont        [Lucida Bright]
> \setsansfont        [Lucida Sans]
> \setmonofont        [Lucida Sans Typewriter]
> \setmathfont        [Lucida New Math]
> \sethandwritingfont [Lucida Handwriting Italic]
> \setcalligraphicfont[Lucida Calligraphy Italic]
>
> \starttext
>
> \rm\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps
>
> \ss\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps
>
> \tt\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps
>
> \hw\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps
>
> \cg\tf roman \it italic \bf bold \bi bolditalic \sc smallcaps
>
> \startformula
> c^2 = a^2 + b^2
> \stopformula
>
> \stoptext
>
> Wolfgang

"Writing typescripts for \ConTeXt\ can be a tedious job, …"
(from simplefonts.tex)

I didn't notice
…
until now


-- 
luigi
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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-2-2010 5:06, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> I don't know how Hans' metric files look like, but:
> - texfont --ve=yandy ... doesn't do anything here
> - texfont --ve=bh ... creates a bunch of files, however *not* the T1
> files which are of crucial importance to me; T1 (=ec) is only
> supported via virtual fonts. (And even then the character looks just
> about terrible, but still better than not having it at all.)

afaik originally yand only shipped texnansi metrics

however, in context we have this texnansi-* naming scheme and for a 
while (as i used lucida often) i shipped the texnansi-* metrics

now, when yandy went out of business and tug took over, things changed 
and as the original tfm (math) metrics were no longer shipped we ended 
up in some deadlock: context supported the original fonts (present on 
machines of users) while tug didn't ship those 8 tfm files needed for math

so, at that point i simply gave up on lucida (i had my own texnansi-* + 
original math tfm files) as changing context would break existing lucida 
usage

interesting is that the lucida metrics (afaik) are not shipped with tex 
live so we cannot create a robust solution unless we ship with the 
minimale:

for mkiv (luatex):

- afm files (for mkiv)
- map file (can be small one)
- only some 8 math tfm files for mkiv

for mkii:

- map file
- tfm files (dunno which ones)
- vf files (dunno which ones)

for mkiv i already adapted the typescripts (in beta), for mkii we need 
different mappings

> I have fixed the typescripts, so that one doesn't need to generate any
> additional files apart from those present on CTAN (and we can also add
> them to minimals, but it might be nice to cooperate with Hans first to
> prevent any name clashes). I'll send the typescripts once I figure out
> some problems, but:

ok, alternatively we could ship the texnansi-* and ec-* variants but who 
cares

> 1.) Hans, why does
>       \definefontsynonym  [LucidaBright] [file:hlhr.pfb]
> fail with the message below? (I can send a complete example off-list.)
> How does one use pfb fonts then? Anyway, \definefontsynonym
> [LucidaBright] [name:LucidaBright] works fine, so that's ok for now.
> Using the accents in XeTeX would require extra tricks anyway, so
> concentrating on pdftex and luatex seems reasonable.

i have no clue ... but best test with the latest beta

also, i did a fix in math-vfu (extra nil check) as some shapes seem to 
be missing

even if it works, luatex can quit whem embedding the file (buglet) but 
that has been fixed by taco yesterday

> 2.) When reading typescripts for mkii with mkiv ("ec" encoding that is
> based on virtual fonts), I don't get any accent at all, not even š and
> ž that are part of texnansi encoding and are present in font. Why is
> that?

nu clue ... maybe because yandy only bothered about texnansi so we might 
as well stick to that

> 3.) When creating a devoted mkiv typescript, č is missing (and so are
> ćđ, but I can live without the two of them as long as Nino is not
> nearby :), however not being able to use č is a no-go for me.

again, maybe the font is not complete

i'm a little surprised as i'd suppose those virtual fonts to be ok

we can still consider to use the texnansi-* and ec-* variants (texfont 
generated)

> I'll get to math later. At the moment I had to figure out how the
> files are organized and how to use them without having to depend on
> texfont.

lucida was always different but afaik tug now ships them in default tex 
math encoding so the math-lbr vector is useless now

Hans


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Re: Lucida Fonts with MKIV

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:51, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 20-2-2010 5:06, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>> I don't know how Hans' metric files look like, but:
>> - texfont --ve=yandy ... doesn't do anything here
>> - texfont --ve=bh ... creates a bunch of files, however *not* the T1
>> files which are of crucial importance to me; T1 (=ec) is only
>> supported via virtual fonts. (And even then the character looks just
>> about terrible, but still better than not having it at all.)
>
> afaik originally yand only shipped texnansi metrics

\definetypescriptprefix [e:ec]       [8t]
\definetypescriptprefix [e:texnansi] [8y]
\definetypescriptprefix [e:8r]       [8r]

Quite possible. Lucida doesn't provide all the ec glyphs anyway (č is
not present), but the virtual font on CTAN apparently fakes it
successfully by placing caron over c and taking two glyphs
(successfully only in technical meaning, so that it works in the first
place; typographically it's obvious that the one who did the virtual
font has never used that glyph).

> however, in context we have this texnansi-* naming scheme and for a while
> (as i used lucida often) i shipped the texnansi-* metrics

The metrics are there already, it's only that their naming scheme is
weird. But unless someone really depends on raw tfm names, the
following should work OK:

\starttypescript [mono] [lucida] [ec,texnansi,8r]
	\definefontsynonym [\typescriptthree-lbtr]
		[hlcrt\typescriptprefix{e:\typescriptthree}]
		[encoding=\typescriptthree] % LucidaTypewriter
	\definefontsynonym [\typescriptthree-lbtb]
		[hlcbt\typescriptprefix{e:\typescriptthree}]
		[encoding=\typescriptthree] % LucidaTypewriterBold
	\definefontsynonym [\typescriptthree-lbto]
		[hlcrot\typescriptprefix{e:\typescriptthree}]
		[encoding=\typescriptthree] % LucidaTypewriterOblique
	\definefontsynonym [\typescriptthree-lbtbo]
		[hlcbot\typescriptprefix{e:\typescriptthree}]
		[encoding=\typescriptthree] % LucidaTypewriterBoldOblique

	\definefontsynonym [LucidaTypewriter]
		[\typescriptthree-lbtr]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
	\definefontsynonym [LucidaTypewriterBold]
		[\typescriptthree-lbtb]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
	\definefontsynonym [LucidaTypewriterOblique]
		[\typescriptthree-lbto]  [encoding=\typescriptthree]
	\definefontsynonym [LucidaTypewriterBoldOblique]
		[\typescriptthree-lbtbo] [encoding=\typescriptthree]

	\loadmapfile[lucida.map]
\stoptypescript

If one doesn't need the texnansi-lbr synonyms, it can be done more
efficiently in a single step.

Alternatively we can of course ship the metrics, but assume some LaTeX
user with an already working LaTeX installation of Lucida - wouldn't
it be great if it worked in ConTeX out-of-the-box?

> now, when yandy went out of business and tug took over, things changed and
> as the original tfm (math) metrics were no longer shipped we ended up in
> some deadlock: context supported the original fonts (present on machines of
> users) while tug didn't ship those 8 tfm files needed for math

But now the tfm files for math are shipped, or am I missing something?
Do you mean some other math fonts? The package on CTAN has the
following tfm files (and maybe some extra ones in vf that I didn't
manage to check completely yet):

hlcda     LucidaNewMath-Arrows-Demi   <lbmad.pfb
hlcdim    LucidaNewMath-DemiItalic    <lbmdi.pfb
hlcdima   LucidaNewMath-AltDemiItalic <lbmdo.pfb
hlcdm     LucidaNewMath-Demibold      <lbmd.pfb
hlcdy     LucidaNewMath-Symbol-Demi   <lbmsd.pfb
hlcra     LucidaNewMath-Arrows        <lbma.pfb
hlcrim    LucidaNewMath-Italic        <lbmi.pfb
hlcrima   LucidaNewMath-AltItalic     <lbmo.pfb
hlcrm     LucidaNewMath-Roman         <lbmr.pfb
hlcrv     LucidaNewMath-Extension     <lbme.pfb
hlcry     LucidaNewMath-Symbol        <lbms.pfb

> so, at that point i simply gave up on lucida (i had my own texnansi-* +
> original math tfm files) as changing context would break existing lucida
> usage
>
> interesting is that the lucida metrics (afaik) are not shipped with tex live
> so we cannot create a robust solution unless we ship with the minimale:

What does robust mean? One needs to buy the font anyway, so it won't
work out of the box, but it would be nice if it worked out of the box
with the files that TUG does ship. Metrics in TeX live don't really
help without pfb files and if one installs pfb files, one may easily
copy everything else along. Of course we can add the metrics to
minimals (optional install), but I would prefer them to match the ones
from TUG (currently they are also available on CTAN).

> for mkiv (luatex):
>
> - afm files (for mkiv)
> - map file (can be small one)
> - only some 8 math tfm files for mkiv
>
> for mkii:
>
> - map file
> - tfm files (dunno which ones)
> - vf files (dunno which ones)

I can double-check which ones are not needed, but we could drop at
least the 8r encoding.

> for mkiv i already adapted the typescripts (in beta), for mkii we need
> different mappings

I'll take a look. I have noticed that math-vfu does use the metric
names from the latest set of fonts.

Hoewere one needs to keep in mind that it's not 100% compatible
encoding (the "rm" doesn't 100% correspond to the same glyphs in LM,
but it's rather a roman variant of "mi", so at least the brackets need
to be taken from somewhere else). Also, there are many extra glyphs
all over the place that should better be mapped to unicode if one
wants to use them.

>> I have fixed the typescripts, so that one doesn't need to generate any
>> additional files apart from those present on CTAN (and we can also add
>> them to minimals, but it might be nice to cooperate with Hans first to
>> prevent any name clashes). I'll send the typescripts once I figure out
>> some problems, but:
>
> ok, alternatively we could ship the texnansi-* and ec-* variants but who
> cares

For me it is the less files - the less problems. If some other files
are already considered "standard" and work out of the box, it would be
nice to use those. (Unless someone convinces Karl to ship a few extra
metrics, but you already said that he declined the idea.)

>> 1.) Hans, why does
>>      \definefontsynonym  [LucidaBright] [file:hlhr.pfb]
>> fail with the message below? (I can send a complete example off-list.)
>> How does one use pfb fonts then? Anyway, \definefontsynonym
>> [LucidaBright] [name:LucidaBright] works fine, so that's ok for now.
>> Using the accents in XeTeX would require extra tricks anyway, so
>> concentrating on pdftex and luatex seems reasonable.
>
> i have no clue ... but best test with the latest beta
>
> also, i did a fix in math-vfu (extra nil check) as some shapes seem to be
> missing
>
> even if it works, luatex can quit whem embedding the file (buglet) but that
> has been fixed by taco yesterday

I will check that (one needs to check the vectors anyway).

>> 2.) When reading typescripts for mkii with mkiv ("ec" encoding that is
>> based on virtual fonts), I don't get any accent at all, not even š and
>> ž that are part of texnansi encoding and are present in font. Why is
>> that?
>
> nu clue ... maybe because yandy only bothered about texnansi so we might as
> well stick to that

But š and ž *are* part of font and part of texnansi encoding.

>> 3.) When creating a devoted mkiv typescript, č is missing (and so are
>> ćđ, but I can live without the two of them as long as Nino is not
>> nearby :), however not being able to use č is a no-go for me.
>
> again, maybe the font is not complete
>
> i'm a little surprised as i'd suppose those virtual fonts to be ok
>
> we can still consider to use the texnansi-* and ec-* variants (texfont
> generated)

The virtual font *is* ok. It is MKIV that doesn't care about that virtual font.
In short:
- texnansi -> is tfm; all the glyphs are present in font
- ec -> is only vf; some glyphs are missing in font, but are composed in vf

Is there any way to get those composed glyphs out in mkiv?

>> I'll get to math later. At the moment I had to figure out how the
>> files are organized and how to use them without having to depend on
>> texfont.
>
> lucida was always different but afaik tug now ships them in default tex math
> encoding so the math-lbr vector is useless now

- almost default -
It's quite ok for the first approximation, but still needs some fixes.
If nothing else it offers way more glyphs than CM/LM.

Mojca
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