* ConTeXt name/branding
@ 2010-04-26 22:41 Scott Steele
2010-04-26 23:16 ` Hans Hagen
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Scott Steele @ 2010-04-26 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
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Sidenote: If anyone has ever considered changing the name of the ConTeXt
project, I'd like to support that. Name consistency is important, but there
are two unnecessary problems that the current name creates.
The first is that the unusual capitalization and pronunciation are a barrier
to new users. I've used macro packages in the TeX family for about four
years now (though it seems much longer! I can't believe for how long I was
putting out such ugly papers!), but I'm now consciously trying to remember
to pronounce them as tecks, latecks, zeetecks, conteckst, etc, and to type
them as Tex, Latex, Xetex, and Context (outside of this message/forum). The
odd capitalization doen't win fans among people who appreciate typographic
tradition, and the pronunciation requires that, instead of explaining first
how powerful and useful these systems are, one explain the Greek chi and
Donald Knuth. It doesn't give a good impression when one's first exposure to
TeX involves being told one is wrong in how one pronounces a word that is
less than 40 years old (The same goes for many open source projects).
Further, if the name is brought up in conversation and piques the interest
of a potential user, they will have a difficult time later searching for it
when they type in contekt or conteckt.
The second problem with the ConTeXt name is its shared spelling with
context. When I google context and font, I get so many pages imploring me to
consider the context of my document when choosing between Arial, Times New
Roman, and Comic Sans. Many of the things I'll be searching for while using
ConTeXt yield thousands of irrelevant pages because of how context can pop
up in so many topics that share major keywords with the typesetting process.
Of course, I myself am in no position to advocate a name change, and if the
two issues I listed are the price for having a cutting-edge typesetting
system, then I'm still a pretty happy camper. But if any of the people who
have actually worked really hard to put this together have ever thought
about bringing up a branding change, here's my two pence.
Scott
-----
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events, or locales is entirely coïncidental.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: ConTeXt name/branding
2010-04-26 22:41 ConTeXt name/branding Scott Steele
@ 2010-04-26 23:16 ` Hans Hagen
2010-04-27 8:27 ` Patrick Gundlach
2010-04-27 12:28 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2010-04-26 23:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Scott Steele
On 27-4-2010 12:41, Scott Steele wrote:
> Sidenote: If anyone has ever considered changing the name of the ConTeXt
> project, I'd like to support that. Name consistency is important, but there
> are two unnecessary problems that the current name creates.
the implication of a name change is quite big
> The first is that the unusual capitalization and pronunciation are a barrier
> to new users. I've used macro packages in the TeX family for about four
> years now (though it seems much longer! I can't believe for how long I was
> putting out such ugly papers!), but I'm now consciously trying to remember
> to pronounce them as tecks, latecks, zeetecks, conteckst, etc, and to type
> them as Tex, Latex, Xetex, and Context (outside of this message/forum). The
> odd capitalization doen't win fans among people who appreciate typographic
> tradition, and the pronunciation requires that, instead of explaining first
> how powerful and useful these systems are, one explain the Greek chi and
> Donald Knuth. It doesn't give a good impression when one's first exposure to
> TeX involves being told one is wrong in how one pronounces a word that is
> less than 40 years old (The same goes for many open source projects).
> Further, if the name is brought up in conversation and piques the interest
> of a potential user, they will have a difficult time later searching for it
> when they type in contekt or conteckt.
well, nobody here cares much if you type ConTeXt as CONTEXT (small caps)
or context (verbatim or whatever)
concerning the pronouciation ... the x is not like in tex, it's just x
(ks or whatever) ... we're not that picky and there are no rules other
than that it should look right in your text if you refer to it
> The second problem with the ConTeXt name is its shared spelling with
> context. When I google context and font, I get so many pages imploring me to
> consider the context of my document when choosing between Arial, Times New
> Roman, and Comic Sans. Many of the things I'll be searching for while using
> ConTeXt yield thousands of irrelevant pages because of how context can pop
> up in so many topics that share major keywords with the typesetting process..
well, googling on latex is also somewhat special ... as we now have
context mkiv, you have a better change for a hit
> Of course, I myself am in no position to advocate a name change, and if the
> two issues I listed are the price for having a cutting-edge typesetting
> system, then I'm still a pretty happy camper. But if any of the people who
> have actually worked really hard to put this together have ever thought
> about bringing up a branding change, here's my two pence.
changing a name will bring way to much work with it (changing web pages,
manuals, filenames, lots of code, script names, habits etc)
Hans
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: ConTeXt name/branding
2010-04-26 22:41 ConTeXt name/branding Scott Steele
2010-04-26 23:16 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2010-04-27 8:27 ` Patrick Gundlach
2010-04-27 8:29 ` luigi scarso
2010-04-27 8:48 ` Mojca Miklavec
2010-04-27 12:28 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.
2 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Gundlach @ 2010-04-27 8:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi Scott,
that's a good idea, we should rename it to 'latex 3'. That name is still free and it would fill the expectations of almost all TeX users out there.
Patrick
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: ConTeXt name/branding
2010-04-27 8:27 ` Patrick Gundlach
@ 2010-04-27 8:29 ` luigi scarso
2010-04-27 8:48 ` Mojca Miklavec
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2010-04-27 8:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch> wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> that's a good idea, we should rename it to 'latex 3'. That name is still free and it would fill the expectations of almost all TeX users out there.
>
'3' seems to be unfortunate.
What about L(u)ATeX-mkiv ?
--
luigi
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: ConTeXt name/branding
2010-04-27 8:27 ` Patrick Gundlach
2010-04-27 8:29 ` luigi scarso
@ 2010-04-27 8:48 ` Mojca Miklavec
2010-04-27 8:58 ` Tobias Burnus
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2010-04-27 8:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:27, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> that's a good idea, we should rename it to 'latex 3'. That name is still free and it would fill the expectations of almost all TeX users out there.
+1
And I'm sure that the number of users would greatly increase :) :) :)
Whenever I tell someone that I'm not using LaTeX any more and that I
use something better instead, nobody ever believes me. (There cannot
exist any program that's better than LaTeX. That's one of the first
few axioms in mathematics :)
If I told them I was using LaTeX 3, it would gain everyone's attention
and everyone would want to see how it looks (still LaTeX, but probably
better since it carries a bigger version number).
Mojca
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: ConTeXt name/branding
2010-04-26 22:41 ConTeXt name/branding Scott Steele
2010-04-26 23:16 ` Hans Hagen
2010-04-27 8:27 ` Patrick Gundlach
@ 2010-04-27 12:28 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.
2010-04-27 13:31 ` Arthur Reutenauer
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o. @ 2010-04-27 12:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hello,
my opinion is that ConTeXt including capitalization of some preselected letters is OK.
Imagine - how new mode of work brings ConTeXt (and other TeX family) to someone who knows only or has been working with Word before!
If it's to much to someone to remember correct "ConTeXt" writing (or to use \context macro - I never used it before, so I'm not sure whether such a macro exists; if it doesn't, it might be useful to define it; like \LaTeX in LaTeX), than it's probable one will not want to "see-through" the whole typesetting system (and more, ConTeXt may be a bit simpler for usage than LaTeX) and to learn how to typeset in this system (as he may be used to click an icon by mouse to get the required operation).
Also - if someone sees "ConTeXt" written, he may ask why some letters are capitalized. Especially seeing "TeX" should be preserved as it demonstrates relation to "TeX"; first letter uppercase ("C") is common in (majority) of program names; and thus I'd keep the whole "ConTeXt" as I feel it as a "mark".
Please take all above as my personal opinion; I don't like to touch anyone's point of view.
Lukas
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
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2010-04-26 22:41 ConTeXt name/branding Scott Steele
2010-04-26 23:16 ` Hans Hagen
2010-04-27 8:27 ` Patrick Gundlach
2010-04-27 8:29 ` luigi scarso
2010-04-27 8:48 ` Mojca Miklavec
2010-04-27 8:58 ` Tobias Burnus
2010-04-27 9:31 ` Vedran Miletić
2010-04-27 9:35 ` Hans Hagen
2010-04-27 11:18 ` Khaled Hosny
2010-04-27 12:28 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.
2010-04-27 13:31 ` Arthur Reutenauer
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