Re: 10+ reasons why I still use MKII

[Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>]

On 13-5-2010 3:42, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> \startyoumayignorethis
> The only thing that really bothers me are so much different vertical
> differences which show up in almost every document I ever write. MKIV
> consistently takes more vertical space, so no matter what document I
> try to recompile, it always ends up with more pages (and some weird
> page breaks) when processing it with MKIV.

\startcantresistmode

the lineheight relates to the ex height and as in mkiv we don't have the 
tfm limitations (those 16 values of ht dp) we have slightly different 
spacing

\stopcantresistmode

> Yes, I know. The two are incompatible. Yes, I know. Different fonts
> are being used. Yes, I know. Different algorithms/aproaches to break
> pages. But it would be soooooo nice if the most basic documents with
> LM fonts could turn out at least approximately the same. Horizontal
> breaking works perfectly (it's identical). It's only vertical spacing
> that's a tiny bit "problematic" and makes every recompiled document a
> bit messy.

\startchallengingmode

well, you can try to figure out what 2.8ex in mkii and mkiv is and then 
have your own defaults for mkiv

\stopchallengingmode

> It might be nice to look a bit closer to the topic, like in the
> example that I pointed out. There are some weirdnesses left, like the
> equations that starts at least a line lower in MKIV when there's no
> real reason for such a behaviour.

\startexplanation
TeX tries hard to inject a baselineskip and also an empty hlist so that 
one always gets that line. In MkII I compensated for that hard to beat 
automatism. In MkIV this does not happen. We figured out that when we 
add a \noindent before $$ that we don't get this side effect so that now 
happens in the latest beta.
\stopexplanation

> \stopyoumayignorethis

> Thanks a lot. (Just wandering - should stopper be a synonym for
> numberstopper in MKIV then or is stopper also used somewhere else?)

the more synonyme the more documentation

> Did you try to run that with MKII? MKIV works fine (I know that the
> title was a bit misleading). I get the characters from font that are
> equal to the second byte of UTF-8 representation of input character.

you probably need to enable utf8 in the mp environment then

> Thanks. I'm sorry that I didn't simplify that one (I just took a
> random equation out of a document since it looked nicer).

random thesis ... interesting

>>> 9.) Note the big difference of when the formula starts vertically on page:
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>> \startformula
>>> a+b
>>> \stopformula
>>> \stoptext
>>
>> interesting, i need to look into that
>
> Thanks :)

same problem as previous

> What can I do?

make a complete test as small as possible

> Does anyone else have an idea of whether \cite[a,b,c] should generate
> [1,2,3] or [1-3]? I have an article at hand that has "[1], [2], [3]"
> instead to be honest. I'm not sure, but [1-3] somehow doesn't appear
> right to me. I have a feeling that each bib item needs to be cited
> separately, but I may be wrong.

collapsing has always been there afaik

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
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