Announcing TLContrib

Announcing TLContrib

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hello everybody,

Please allow me to introduce a new project: TLContrib.

TLContrib is a website + repository that hosts contributed packages
for TeX Live 2010. The packages on TLContrib are packages that are
not distributed inside TeX Live proper for one or another of following
reasons:

  * because it is not free software according to the Debian guidelines;
  * because it is a binary update;
  * because it is not available on CTAN;
  * because it is an intermediate release for testing.

In short, anything TeX-related that can not be on TeX Live but can
still legally be distributed over the Internet can have its place
on TLContrib.

The ultimate goal is to provide a companion to the core TeX Live
tlnet distribution in much the same way as Debian's non-free tree
is a companion to their normal, 100% free software distribution. The
goal is not to replace TeX Live: package and updates that can be part
of TeX Live itself should stay (or be added) there. TLContrib is simply
trying to fill in a gap in the current distribution system.


Quick start: to use TLContrib as a TeX Live repository, point the TeX
Live package manager to http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/

For more detailed information, visit the website:

   http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/

The current version of the website is preliminary, and much can still
be improved. Even so, both the website and the repository are fully
functional and can be used for both the publication of packages and
as a repository source for the TeX Live package manager.

Currently included in the repository are:

   * context 2010.07.30
   * the context cow fonts
   * luatex 0.63.0 (but not yet for all architectures)
   * metapost 1.502 (also not for all architectures)

Currently, there are binary updates for  i386-linux, universal-darwin
win32, x86_64-darwin, and x86_64-linux. Mojca Miklavec and myself are
working hard on providing the missing architectures soon.


This announcement is also a call for more contributors: if you are the
maintainer of a package that you would like to see distributed but that
for one reason or another can not or should not be in the core TeX Live
distribution, please consider adding it to TLContrib. The website
explains the process, and it is of course possible to ask questions on
the mailing list:

   tlcontrib@ntg.nl

Incidentally, the mailing list's web page is:

   http://www.ntg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tlcontrib

I hope you will like this new addition to the TeX community, and I also
want to take the opportunity to thank the TeX Live and ConTeXt minimals
teams for their encouragement and ongoing help in bringing this project
to life.

Best wishes,
Taco

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

One comment, two questions Taco :

C1: Great idea; this project has my wholehearted support.

Q1: When you write "In short, anything that cannot be on
TeX Live but can still legally be distributed over the
Internet can have a place on TLContrib.", does this not
open a hole rather wider than you intended.  Should there
not be a limitation to "anything that can ... and which
is relevant to TeX" ?

Q2: When you write "Quick start: to use this site as a
TeX Live repository, point the TeX Live package manager
to http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010. If you want to
know more details about using TLContrib, see the
using TLContrib page.", does this mean that I (and
others) can use /solely/ TLContrib henceforth, or
will it be necessary to re-point the TeX Live package
manager at a "normal" TL node for some purposes ?

** Phil.

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Diederick C. Niehorster]

Hi Taco,

This is a great effort, thanks!

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 02:36, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> TLContrib is a website + repository that hosts contributed packages
> for TeX Live 2010. The packages on TLContrib are packages that are
> not distributed inside TeX Live proper for one or another of following
> reasons:
>  * because it is an intermediate release for testing.

Will it be possible to filter out the testing releases? Many people
would only want to update to those package and binary versions that
are declared (reasonably) stable.

Best,
Dee

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Axel E. Retif]

On  8 Oct, 2010, at 13:36, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> 
> Please allow me to introduce a new project: TLContrib.
> 
> TLContrib is a website + repository that hosts contributed packages
> for TeX Live 2010. The packages on TLContrib are packages that are
> not distributed inside TeX Live proper for one or another of following
> reasons:
> 
> * because it is not free software according to the Debian guidelines;
> * because it is a binary update;
> 
> [...]
> 
> Quick start: to use TLContrib as a TeX Live repository, point the TeX
> Live package manager to http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/

Great! I just tried (on a Mac)

tlmgr --repository http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/ update --all --list

and it gave me a list of binaries to update (ConTeXt, LuaTeX, Metapost); then I checked my LuaTeX version: ``This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.60.2-2010071217 (TeX Live 2010) (rev 3736)'', and then

sudo tlmgr --repository http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/ update luatex

tlmgr: package repository http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/
tlmgr: saving backups to /usr/local/texlive/2010/tlpkg/backups
[1/3, ??:??/??:??] update: luatex.universal-darwin [2545k] (19430 -> 19431) ... done
[2/3, 00:27/00:51] update: luatex.x86_64-darwin [1478k] (19430 -> 19431) ... done
[3/3, 00:43/00:51] update: luatex [809k] (19324 -> 19328) ... done
tlmgr: package log updated at /usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-var/web2c/tlmgr.log
running mktexlsr ...
done running mktexlsr.
regenerating fmtutil.cnf in /usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-var
running fmtutil-sys --no-error-if-no-format --byengine luatex ...
done running fmtutil-sys --no-error-if-no-format --byengine luatex.

And now I have ``LuaTeX, Version beta-0.63.0-2010091123''.

Very nice! Thank you and Mojca (the darwin LuaTeX maintainer)!


Axel

Re: [tex-live] Announcing TLContrib

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 10/09/2010 12:51 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:
> One comment, two questions Taco :
>
> C1: Great idea; this project has my wholehearted support.
>
> Q1: When you write "In short, anything that cannot be on
> TeX Live but can still legally be distributed over the
> Internet can have a place on TLContrib.", does this not
> open a hole rather wider than you intended.

Sure, that is the intention. I do not think of the front
page or the announcement as a contract, but I have added
a 'related to TeX' to this phrase.

> Q2: When you write "Quick start: to use this site as a
> TeX Live repository, point the TeX Live package manager
> to http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010. If you want to
> know more details about using TLContrib, see the
> using TLContrib page.", does this mean that I (and
> others) can use /solely/ TLContrib henceforth, or

No. To make this a little clearer, I've added 'temporarily'
to the 'point the TLmgr' sentence.

Still not the clearest possible phrasing, but better. The
current multi-repository support in tlmgr is rudimentary,
and it needs extensions to make extra sites like tlcontrib
work in a natural way. We are already discussing such
extensions off list, but there is no time frame for
implementation yet.

Best wishes,
Taco
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: [tex-live] Announcing TLContrib

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 10/09/2010 03:11 AM, Diederick C. Niehorster wrote:
> Hi Taco,
>
> This is a great effort, thanks!
>
> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 02:36, Taco Hoekwater<taco@elvenkind.com>  wrote:
>> TLContrib is a website + repository that hosts contributed packages
>> for TeX Live 2010. The packages on TLContrib are packages that are
>> not distributed inside TeX Live proper for one or another of following
>> reasons:
>>   * because it is an intermediate release for testing.
>
> Will it be possible to filter out the testing releases? Many people
> would only want to update to those package and binary versions that
> are declared (reasonably) stable.

I think you will have to look at the version information. There is
no clean way to handle this server-side except to create a secondary
TLContrib repository, and I am not eager to do that just yet.

Best wishes,
Taco
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Thank you for the clarification, Taco.  As far as
the phrase "to use this site as a TeX Live
repository, point the TeX Live package manager
to http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/201" is concerned,
perhaps "as a partial TLR", or perhaps "as an
adjunct TLR".

Less important : "point X at" is more idiomatic
than "point X to".

** Phil.

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Joseph Wright]

On 08/10/2010 19:36, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> Please allow me to introduce a new project: TLContrib.
>
> TLContrib is a website + repository that hosts contributed packages
> for TeX Live 2010. The packages on TLContrib are packages that are
> not distributed inside TeX Live proper for one or another of following
> reasons:
>
> * because it is not free software according to the Debian guidelines;
> * because it is a binary update;
> * because it is not available on CTAN;
> * because it is an intermediate release for testing.
>
> In short, anything TeX-related that can not be on TeX Live but can
> still legally be distributed over the Internet can have its place
> on TLContrib.
>
> The ultimate goal is to provide a companion to the core TeX Live
> tlnet distribution in much the same way as Debian's non-free tree
> is a companion to their normal, 100% free software distribution. The
> goal is not to replace TeX Live: package and updates that can be part
> of TeX Live itself should stay (or be added) there. TLContrib is simply
> trying to fill in a gap in the current distribution system.
>
>
> Quick start: to use TLContrib as a TeX Live repository, point the TeX
> Live package manager to http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/
>
> For more detailed information, visit the website:
>
> http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/
>
> The current version of the website is preliminary, and much can still
> be improved. Even so, both the website and the repository are fully
> functional and can be used for both the publication of packages and
> as a repository source for the TeX Live package manager.
>
> Currently included in the repository are:
>
> * context 2010.07.30
> * the context cow fonts
> * luatex 0.63.0 (but not yet for all architectures)
> * metapost 1.502 (also not for all architectures)
>
> Currently, there are binary updates for i386-linux, universal-darwin
> win32, x86_64-darwin, and x86_64-linux. Mojca Miklavec and myself are
> working hard on providing the missing architectures soon.
>
>
> This announcement is also a call for more contributors: if you are the
> maintainer of a package that you would like to see distributed but that
> for one reason or another can not or should not be in the core TeX Live
> distribution, please consider adding it to TLContrib. The website
> explains the process, and it is of course possible to ask questions on
> the mailing list:
>
> tlcontrib@ntg.nl
>
> Incidentally, the mailing list's web page is:
>
> http://www.ntg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tlcontrib
>
> I hope you will like this new addition to the TeX community, and I also
> want to take the opportunity to thank the TeX Live and ConTeXt minimals
> teams for their encouragement and ongoing help in bringing this project
> to life.
>
> Best wishes,
> Taco

What's the upload procedure for package authors? Do I just send to the 
server my .tds.zip, or is there more to it than that. At the moment 
things are a bit sparse on the site :-)
-- 
Joseph Wright

Re: [tex-live] Announcing TLContrib

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 10/09/2010 10:03 AM, Joseph Wright wrote:
>
> What's the upload procedure for package authors? Do I just send to the
> server my .tds.zip, or is there more to it than that. At the moment
> things are a bit sparse on the site :-)

Did you miss the help page?

   http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/help.html

Best wishes,
Taco
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Joseph Wright]

On 09/10/2010 09:38, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> On 10/09/2010 10:03 AM, Joseph Wright wrote:
>>
>> What's the upload procedure for package authors? Do I just send to the
>> server my .tds.zip, or is there more to it than that. At the moment
>> things are a bit sparse on the site :-)
>
> Did you miss the help page?
>
> http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/help.html
>
> Best wishes,
> Taco
>

Um, yes. I was expecting the help to be on the upload page, a la the 
CTAN approach :-)
--
Joseph Wright

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 10/09/2010 10:42 AM, Joseph Wright wrote:
> On 09/10/2010 09:38, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>> On 10/09/2010 10:03 AM, Joseph Wright wrote:
>>>
>>> What's the upload procedure for package authors? Do I just send to the
>>> server my .tds.zip, or is there more to it than that. At the moment
>>> things are a bit sparse on the site :-)
>>
>> Did you miss the help page?
>>
>> http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/help.html
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Taco
>>
>
> Um, yes. I was expecting the help to be on the upload page, a la the
> CTAN approach :-)

Too much text to place it there. In-line help is planned for the future
but not available yet.

Best wishes,
Taco

PS From now on, I will be redirecting responses to explicit TLContrib
questions to tlcontrib@ntg.nl. I see no need to keep all of tex-live
and ntg-context in the CC all the time. If you want to keep informed,
add yourself to the tlcontrib mailing list:
   http://www.ntg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tlcontrib

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Axel E. Retif]

On  9 Oct, 2010, at 00:26, Axel E. Retif wrote:

> [...]
> 
> sudo tlmgr --repository http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/ update luatex
> 
> tlmgr: package repository http://tlcontrib.metatex.org/2010/
> tlmgr: saving backups to /usr/local/texlive/2010/tlpkg/backups
> [1/3, ??:??/??:??] update: luatex.universal-darwin [2545k] (19430 -> 19431) ... done
> [2/3, 00:27/00:51] update: luatex.x86_64-darwin [1478k] (19430 -> 19431) ... done
> [3/3, 00:43/00:51] update: luatex [809k] (19324 -> 19328) ... done
> 
> [...]
> 
> And now I have ``LuaTeX, Version beta-0.63.0-2010091123''.


But now

> tlmgr update --all --list
> [...]
> luatex.universal-darwin: local revision (19431) is newer than revision in [TL repository] (19430), not updating.
> luatex.x86_64-darwin: local revision (19431) is newer than revision in [TL repository] (19430), not updating.


OK both. But...

> [...]
> luatex [777k]: local: 19328, source: 20014 (update)


What should we do in these cases?


Best

Axel

Re: [tex-live] Announcing TLContrib

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 10/09/2010 11:14 AM, Axel E. Retif wrote:
>
> OK both. But...
>
>> [...]
>> luatex [777k]: local: 19328, source: 20014 (update)
>
>
> What should we do in these cases?

Waiting for tlcontrib to have an update is the best approach. In fact,
right now there already is 20015 on tlcontrib.

Best wishes,
Taco
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Axel E. Retif]

On  9 Oct, 2010, at 04:28, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> On 10/09/2010 11:14 AM, Axel E. Retif wrote:
>> 
>> OK both. But...
>> 
>>> [...]
>>> luatex [777k]: local: 19328, source: 20014 (update)
>> 
>> 
>> What should we do in these cases?
> 
> Waiting for tlcontrib to have an update is the best approach. In fact,
> right now there already is 20015 on tlcontrib.

OK. Done already. So now

> luatex: local revision (20015) is newer than revision in [TL repository] (20014), not updating.

Thank you very much.

Axel

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Matija Šuklje]

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Dne petek 8. oktobra 2010 ob 20:36:35 je Taco Hoekwater napisal(a):
>   * because it is not free software according to the Debian guidelines;
>   * because it is a binary update;

At a first (and second) glance, I don't feel exactly comfortable with these 
two. Would you care to explain them a bit more?

Does "not free according to Debian" mean that it *is* free according to FSF 
and/or OSI?

Binary updates as in closed source or as in e.g. pictures?


Cheers,
Matija
-- 
gsm:	+386 41 849 552
www:	http://matija.suklje.name
xmpp:	matija.suklje@gabbler.org

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Announcing TLContrib

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 15:36, Matija Šuklje wrote:
> Dne petek 8. oktobra 2010 ob 20:36:35 je Taco Hoekwater napisal(a):
>>   * because it is not free software according to the Debian guidelines;
>>   * because it is a binary update;
>
> At a first (and second) glance, I don't feel exactly comfortable with these
> two. Would you care to explain them a bit more?
>
> Does "not free according to Debian" mean that it *is* free according to FSF
> and/or OSI?

I'm not sure about these, but examples are:
- metric files of commercial fonts
- cow fonts (the font is free to use, but one may not modify it)
- documentation of ConTeXt (because the sources are missing, PDFs are
not considered "free enough")
- etc.

> Binary updates as in closed source or as in e.g. pictures?

Usually that would be metapost and luatex (so it's neither closed
source not pictures). TeX Live's policy is to update the binaries only
once per year and Taco wants them to be tested faster than that.

Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________