What are the best fonts to use

What are the best fonts to use

[Cecil Westerhof]

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At the moment I use for my ebook:
\usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]
\setupbodyfont[palatino,rm,12pt]

Does not look to bad, but layout is not my forte. So if people have tips
about the fonts to use, I like to hear them.

Do you use other fonts when using a printed book?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof

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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Pontus Lurcock]

On Mon 14 Mar 2011, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> At the moment I use for my ebook:
> \usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]
> \setupbodyfont[palatino,rm,12pt]
> 
> Does not look to bad, but layout is not my forte. So if people have
> tips about the fonts to use, I like to hear them.

A discussion about ‘best fonts’ might be long and entertaining, but
highly subjective and probably off-topic for this list. MkIV lets you
easily use any OTF font, so the selection is huge. One way to approach
it is to draw up a list of requirements (matched Greek/Cyrillic,
companion math fonts, small caps, etc., and of course price if you are
considering non-free fonts) and narrow the range. For the
‘traditional’ TeX fonts, I find that http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/
is a good resource.

Once you've narrowed your list according to objective measures, it's a
matter of taste. I'd recommend reading Robert Bringhurst's /The
Elements of Typographic Style/ as a good way to start thinking more
deeply about these things. And there are (I am sure) other mailing
lists where discussion of the best fonts would be entirely
appropriate.

> Do you use other fonts when using a printed book?

Some fonts (e.g. a lot of Microsoft ones) are specifically designed to
look acceptable on a computer screen (very low-resolution compared to
print), though that doesn't necessarily mean that they look bad on
paper. So if you're designing for both screen and paper, screen is
probably the tighter constraint.

(I am still very much an amateur when it comes to typography, so
please do not take this as anything like expert advice.)

Hope this helps,

Pont
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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[David Rogers]

* Cecil Westerhof <cldwesterhof@gmail.com> [2011-03-14 12:44]:

>At the moment I use for my ebook:
>\usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]
>\setupbodyfont[palatino,rm,12pt]
>
>Does not look to bad, but layout is not my forte. So if people have tips
>about the fonts to use, I like to hear them.
>
>Do you use other fonts when using a printed book?


I don't think this question can have one answer. There are many good
answers, depending on the kind of book (or other printed material).

1. I think the layout of the page itself can have a great deal to do
with whether a certain font looks good (e.g. amount of white space,
length of lines, etc). Paying proper attention to the "gross" aspects of
your layout, such as margins and line heights, goes a long way to
improving the appearance of the whole work, and brings out the best in
whichever font you choose.

2. To some extent, different fonts can suit different material (e.g. a
book of poems vs a financial report, or a textbook vs a novel). For
extended reading, the conventional wisdom is to choose a
"normal-looking" font that doesn't call attention to itself too much,
but obviously you also want one that is at least somewhat attractive to
look at.

3. Frankly, giving people what they are already used to is often the
best plan - probably more often than typographers would care to admit.
In my opinion, variation for its own sake is over-rated and over-used.

-- 
David
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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Curiouslearn]

Cecil, thanks for asking this question. Even though the answers
may/will be subjective, it is quite likely that there are people here
who have given some thought to font choice. I agree with previous
responses that reading a book on typography would certainly be
helpful. Nevertheless, I am interested in hearing what fonts people
like (if they do not mind sharing). I, and perhaps some others, may
learn about a few fonts.

Bharat


On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 8:31 PM, David Rogers
<davidandrewrogers@gmail.com> wrote:
> * Cecil Westerhof <cldwesterhof@gmail.com> [2011-03-14 12:44]:
>
>> At the moment I use for my ebook:
>> \usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]
>> \setupbodyfont[palatino,rm,12pt]
>>
>> Does not look to bad, but layout is not my forte. So if people have tips
>> about the fonts to use, I like to hear them.
>>
>> Do you use other fonts when using a printed book?
>
>
> I don't think this question can have one answer. There are many good
> answers, depending on the kind of book (or other printed material).
>
> 1. I think the layout of the page itself can have a great deal to do
> with whether a certain font looks good (e.g. amount of white space,
> length of lines, etc). Paying proper attention to the "gross" aspects of
> your layout, such as margins and line heights, goes a long way to
> improving the appearance of the whole work, and brings out the best in
> whichever font you choose.
>
> 2. To some extent, different fonts can suit different material (e.g. a
> book of poems vs a financial report, or a textbook vs a novel). For
> extended reading, the conventional wisdom is to choose a
> "normal-looking" font that doesn't call attention to itself too much,
> but obviously you also want one that is at least somewhat attractive to
> look at.
>
> 3. Frankly, giving people what they are already used to is often the
> best plan - probably more often than typographers would care to admit.
> In my opinion, variation for its own sake is over-rated and over-used.
>
> --
> David
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Charles Doherty]

Dear all,

In light of the question on fonts I have wondered how ConTeXt deals with this

Monotype Baskerville 11/12.5 pt

or 

Monotype 11 on 12 point Bembo

that I see at the beginning of books.

Are there commands to achieve this. There probably are but I haven't recognised them.

Thanks,
Charlie


On 16 Mar 2011, at 11:45, Curiouslearn wrote:

> Cecil, thanks for asking this question. Even though the answers
> may/will be subjective, it is quite likely that there are people here
> who have given some thought to font choice. I agree with previous
> responses that reading a book on typography would certainly be
> helpful. Nevertheless, I am interested in hearing what fonts people
> like (if they do not mind sharing). I, and perhaps some others, may
> learn about a few fonts.
> 
> Bharat

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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Willi Egger]

Hi,

Graphic designers describe in this way the font-size and linespacing.

So one can do things like this:

\definedfont[Baskerville at 11pt]\setupinterlinespace[line=12.5pt]...

Willi

On 16 Mar 2011, at 13:50, Charles Doherty wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> In light of the question on fonts I have wondered how ConTeXt deals with this
> 
> Monotype Baskerville 11/12.5 pt
> 
> or 
> 
> Monotype 11 on 12 point Bembo
> 
> that I see at the beginning of books.
> 
> Are there commands to achieve this. There probably are but I haven't recognised them.
> 
> Thanks,
> Charlie
> 
> 
> On 16 Mar 2011, at 11:45, Curiouslearn wrote:
> 
>> Cecil, thanks for asking this question. Even though the answers
>> may/will be subjective, it is quite likely that there are people here
>> who have given some thought to font choice. I agree with previous
>> responses that reading a book on typography would certainly be
>> helpful. Nevertheless, I am interested in hearing what fonts people
>> like (if they do not mind sharing). I, and perhaps some others, may
>> learn about a few fonts.
>> 
>> Bharat
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Charles Doherty]

Ah Willi,

It is quite clear now. I did think along those lines but wasn't sure.


Thank you very much,

Charlie
On 16 Mar 2011, at 12:59, Willi Egger wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Graphic designers describe in this way the font-size and linespacing.
> 
> So one can do things like this:
> 
> \definedfont[Baskerville at 11pt]\setupinterlinespace[line=12.5pt]...
> 
> Willi

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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2011-03-16 um 13:59 schrieb Willi Egger:

> Graphic designers describe in this way the font-size and linespacing.
>
> So one can do things like this:
>
> \definedfont[Baskerville at 11pt]\setupinterlinespace[line=12.5pt]...

But use "bp" instead of "pt" - TeX's point is smaller than a  
PostScript point, we had that recently...
see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(typography)

Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
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https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Charles Doherty]

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Thank you Hraban,

It is falling into place now.

Charlie
On 16 Mar 2011, at 13:18, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> But use "bp" instead of "pt" - TeX's point is smaller than a PostScript point, we had that recently...
> see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(typography)


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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Christian]

Hi,
I recently started to dabble in typography. There's a lot to learn 
there. The proposed book sure is a good start, but there are also lots 
of online resources (e.g. www.typophile.com - their forum is filled with 
interesting discussions about your question).
What I've learned in the last months is that there are no hard rules - 
only guidelines. When it comes to choosing a font for a book, it depends 
(like already mentioned) on the kind of book. A dragon-fantasy book may 
take a different font than a childrens book or a futuristic novel. 
Compare for example Monotype Centaur to ITC Stone Serif. Then again, the 
font should not distract from the contents of the book, but it can help 
adding a little "soul" to it.
You also have to consider the features you need. Do you need greek or 
russian characters? Do you need small caps? How is the ligature support? 
Maybe oldstyle numbers would be nice? Do the italics please you or are 
they too fancy and somehow don't fit in? How many cuts (italic, 
semibold, bold) do you need?
Another tip would be: go to the library or check the books you own for a 
pleasing design and adopt it (I think in this case, copying/ "stealing" 
is a good thing ;). Sometimes the typeface used is mentioned on the 
publishing information on the first couple of pages. If not, use 
www.whatthefont.com and a scan/photo to identify or use 
www.identifont.com with the Q&A system.
And theres always the list of more or less safe fonts (no claim to be 
complete):
Arnhem
Bembo
Caslon
Dante
Fournier
Garamond
Goudy (Old Style)
Hoefler Text
Janson Text
Minion
Palatino
Sabon
Stone

And finally: Your budget. Are you willing to buy fonts? That would 
probably come in at 30-60 bucks (but that's nothing if you are serious 
aboutt your book). If not, some of the above can be obtained for free 
(still being commercial fonts, e.g. Minion with Adobe Reader, Hoefler 
Text is on Mac OSX...) but only a few are really free. Apart from the 
TeX-fonts I can thing of Linux Libertine (not resticted to Linux, 
despite the name), Vollkorn or some from "The League of moveable type".

As a final inspiration, this beauty:
http://fontsinuse.com/moby-dick-the-arion-press-edition/

Take care,
Christian


Am 20:59, schrieb Curiouslearn:
> Cecil, thanks for asking this question. Even though the answers
> may/will be subjective, it is quite likely that there are people here
> who have given some thought to font choice. I agree with previous
> responses that reading a book on typography would certainly be
> helpful. Nevertheless, I am interested in hearing what fonts people
> like (if they do not mind sharing). I, and perhaps some others, may
> learn about a few fonts.
>
> Bharat
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 8:31 PM, David Rogers
> <davidandrewrogers@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> * Cecil Westerhof<cldwesterhof@gmail.com>  [2011-03-14 12:44]:
>>
>>> At the moment I use for my ebook:
>>> \usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]
>>> \setupbodyfont[palatino,rm,12pt]
>>>
>>> Does not look to bad, but layout is not my forte. So if people have tips
>>> about the fonts to use, I like to hear them.
>>>
>>> Do you use other fonts when using a printed book?
>>
>>
>> I don't think this question can have one answer. There are many good
>> answers, depending on the kind of book (or other printed material).
>>
>> 1. I think the layout of the page itself can have a great deal to do
>> with whether a certain font looks good (e.g. amount of white space,
>> length of lines, etc). Paying proper attention to the "gross" aspects of
>> your layout, such as margins and line heights, goes a long way to
>> improving the appearance of the whole work, and brings out the best in
>> whichever font you choose.
>>
>> 2. To some extent, different fonts can suit different material (e.g. a
>> book of poems vs a financial report, or a textbook vs a novel). For
>> extended reading, the conventional wisdom is to choose a
>> "normal-looking" font that doesn't call attention to itself too much,
>> but obviously you also want one that is at least somewhat attractive to
>> look at.
>>
>> 3. Frankly, giving people what they are already used to is often the
>> best plan - probably more often than typographers would care to admit.
>> In my opinion, variation for its own sake is over-rated and over-used.
>>
>> --
>> David
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 16 mrt. 2011, at 17:51, Christian <metan0r@gmx.de> wrote:

> And finally: Your budget. Are you willing to buy fonts? That would probably come in at 30-60 bucks (but that's nothing if you are serious aboutt your book). If not, some of the above can be obtained for free (still being commercial fonts, e.g. Minion with Adobe Reader, Hoefler Text is on Mac OSX...) 

Be sure to read the license for those: many of these bundled fonts are only 'free' for use within the application they came with. I am pretty sure that is the case for the Adobe Reader fonts.

Best wishes,

Taco
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Re: What are the best fonts to use

[Christian]

Good point. Metadata of the font says its licene can be found here:
http://www.adobe.com/type/legal.html
Be sure to read it.
It's probably best to check with Adobe before using it commercially or 
just buying it. But at least you can try out the font in context, which 
is already a plus. Other commercial fonts can only be judged from 
specimen, and not in your own text environment.

Cheers,

Christian

Am 20:59, schrieb Taco Hoekwater:
>
>
> On 16 mrt. 2011, at 17:51, Christian<metan0r@gmx.de>  wrote:
>
>> And finally: Your budget. Are you willing to buy fonts? That would probably come in at 30-60 bucks (but that's nothing if you are serious aboutt your book). If not, some of the above can be obtained for free (still being commercial fonts, e.g. Minion with Adobe Reader, Hoefler Text is on Mac OSX...)
>
> Be sure to read the license for those: many of these bundled fonts are only 'free' for use within the application they came with. I am pretty sure that is the case for the Adobe Reader fonts.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Taco
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