From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/68611 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Hyphenating compound words in MKIV & microtypography Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:18 +0200 Message-ID: <4DDA55B2.8090005@wxs.nl> References: <20110523120704.GA9754@innsmouth.lan> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1306154446 28799 80.91.229.12 (23 May 2011 12:40:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 12:40:46 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon May 23 14:40:40 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QOUR5-0000rW-Uy for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556A4CAD3D; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id gvTUh-bjlrT0; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:35 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429B7CAD30; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:35 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45561CAD30 for ; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id gwsLXisPSxRJ for ; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2584CCAD2E for ; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp.ziggozakelijk.nl (D57D1DA2.static.ziggozakelijk.nl [213.125.29.162]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id p4NCeUDU013491 for ; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:30 +0200 X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=10.100.1.100; Original-Received: from [10.100.1.100] (unverified [10.100.1.100]) by pragma-net.nl (SurgeMail 5.2a) with ESMTP id 1288-1713362 for multiple; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:40:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.10 ThunderBrowse/3.3.5 In-Reply-To: <20110523120704.GA9754@innsmouth.lan> X-Authenticated-User: hagen@controller-9 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=213.125.29.162; country=NL; region=11; city=Den Haag; latitude=52.0833; longitude=4.3000; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.0833,4.3000&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0cEL0EuWW - e52fc23fc3b8 - 20110523 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.71 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:68611 Archived-At: On 23-5-2011 2:07, Otso Helenius wrote: > Hi, > > MKIV seems to have a problem in hyphenating long finnish compound words i= n MKIV (2011.05.18 22:26). > Here is a minimalist example (columns added to exaggerate the problem): > > \mainlanguage[fi] > \language[fi] > \starttext > \startcolumns[n=3D3] > kolmivaihekilowattituntimittari ymp=E4rist=F6liiketoiminta ep=E4j=E4rjest= elm=E4llisyydellistyttym=E4tt=F6myydell=E4ns=E4k=E4=E4n j=E4rjestelm=E4llis= entelentelem=E4tt=F6myydell=E4ns=E4k=E4=E4n > \stopcolumns > \stoptext > > Similarly with en-hyphenation and \input knuth, some of the lines stretch= out in an ugly fashion. > What am I doing wrong? I don't have these problems in LaTeX. it all depends on the defaults for tolerance and emergencystretch ... = they determine where tex will break in such an extreme case (narrow columns and long words) I'd just use \setupalign[flushleft] > P.S. The punctuation characters should be partially hung out in a justifi= ed paragraph (similar to > what microtype package does on LaTeX). Wikipedia says ConTeXt has "interf= aces for handling > microtypography" but they don't seem as apparent and as easy as using mic= rotype on LaTeX. fwiw: one has rather detailed control over what hangs and how much it = hangs or protrudes (using character classes); we predefine a few cases = in font-ext.lua but more can be defined if needed (not that I've noticed = that much demand) in the case of hz/protrusion "easy"can also easily become ugly > The wiki article Protrusion#MkIV presents \definefontfeature but I find i= t counterintuitive that one has to use > > \definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=3Dquality,expansion=3Dqua= lity] > \setupalign[hz,hanging] sure, (1) it's a font related feature that should be used with care and = (2) you want to be able to turn it on and off > to enable the features. It is unclear if these lines switch the features = on globally for all loaded fonts > (for example ttf/otf ones defined with \starttypescript). IMHO these feat= ures should be enabled by default > because they produce better typographic quality by default (which should = be the preference), and could be > switched off anyway if wanted. The less setup lines one has to add before= \starttext to get high quality > results the better. it produces larger files, take more runtime and in most cases does not = look better at all; for instance one can argue that protrusion gives = more width but at the same time it introduces the boundary condition = that some characters have to hang; or take hz (expansion) ... when = applied so much that it gets visible, it will also lead to similar = shapes in successive lines to look different so, just enabling these features assuming that the output looks better = is debatable (sometimes adding or removing a word is more effective) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________