bib module (again)

bib module (again)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hi,

I have a basic problem with the very first step of using bibliographies in ConTeXt: converting BBI to BBL files.

And, as far as I have understood, the only thing that ".bst" files do is sorting. This means that a plain run of bibtex like this ...

\setupbibtex[database=mytry_x.bib]
\starttext
Test
\completepublications
\stoptext

... should convert the entire database (eg. from a ".bib" file) in TeX-parsable records, written in a ".bbl" file.

If I want to shorten many authors to just one followed by "et al." there is the otion "authoretallimit" that specifies the number needed to trigger 'et al.' handling.
This can be set *later* in setuppublicationlist.

But when I run the minimal exmaple above against this database "mytry_x.bib":

@BOOK{daunerliebkonzenschmidt,
author = {Peter Schlechtriem and Horst Konzen},
}

@BOOK{schlechtriemschmidtkessel,
author = {Peter Schlechtriem and Horst Konzen and Karsten Schmidt},
}

... the resulting bbl lookes like this:

\setuppublicationlist[samplesize={SKS},totalnumber=2]

\startpublication[k=daunerliebkonzenschmidt,t=book,
a={{Schlechtriem},{Konzen}},y=,
n=1,s=SK]
\author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
\author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
\stoppublication

\startpublication[k=schlechtriemschmidtkessel,t=book,
a={{Schlechtriem},{}},y=,
n=2,s=SKS]
\author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
\author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
\author[]{Karsten}[K.]{}{Schmidt}
\stoppublication


So the three authors *are* already shortened to "a={{Schlechtriem},{}}" only!

Is this a bug or a hidden preset that I just didn't found yet?


Any help would be appreciated

Steffen
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Re: bib module (again)

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

On 07/06/11 11:00, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
> So the three authors *are* already shortened to "a={{Schlechtriem},{}}" only!

This is a limitation of both the bst and the macros, you cannot have

  ... as explained in AuthorA, AuthorB and AuthorC (1990).


Best wishes,
Taco


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Re: bib module (again)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Am 06.07.2011 um 11:19 schrieb Taco Hoekwater:

> Hi,
> 
> On 07/06/11 11:00, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> 
>> So the three authors *are* already shortened to "a={{Schlechtriem},{}}" only!
> 
> This is a limitation of both the bst and the macros, you cannot have
> 
>  ... as explained in AuthorA, AuthorB and AuthorC (1990).


What is required is

... as explained in AuthorA/AuthorB/AuthorC (1990).

[Is is required not until *four* authors to set an authoretallimit like
... as explained in AuthorX et al. (1991)]


Where/how can the current limitation be changed?

Steffen
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Re: bib module (again)

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 07/06/11 11:38, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
> What is required is
> 
> ... as explained in AuthorA/AuthorB/AuthorC (1990).
> 
> [Is is required not until *four* authors to set an authoretallimit like
> ... as explained in AuthorX et al. (1991)]
> 
> 
> Where/how can the current limitation be changed?

I have long since forgotten how to write bst files, and (more
worryingly) I have no idea how to change the mkiv bib 'macros',
so my proposal (especially since you want odd separators as well)
would is: fix the bbl manually so that it looks like this:

\startpublication[k=schlechtriemschmidtkessel,t=book,
a={{Schlechtriem/Konzen/Schmidt}},y=,
n=2,s=SKS]
\author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
\author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
\author[]{Karsten}[K.]{}{Schmidt}
\stoppublication

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: bib module (again)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Am 06.07.2011 um 11:47 schrieb Taco Hoekwater:

> 
> 
> On 07/06/11 11:38, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> 
>> What is required is
>> 
>> ... as explained in AuthorA/AuthorB/AuthorC (1990).
>> 
>> [Is is required not until *four* authors to set an authoretallimit like
>> ... as explained in AuthorX et al. (1991)]
>> 
>> 
>> Where/how can the current limitation be changed?
> 
> I have long since forgotten how to write bst files, and (more
> worryingly) I have no idea how to change the mkiv bib 'macros',
> so my proposal (especially since you want odd separators as well)
> would is: fix the bbl manually so that it looks like this:
> 
> \startpublication[k=schlechtriemschmidtkessel,t=book,
> a={{Schlechtriem/Konzen/Schmidt}},y=,
> n=2,s=SKS]
> \author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
> \author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
> \author[]{Karsten}[K.]{}{Schmidt}
> \stoppublication


as databases usually have *lots* of entries this really is a daring venture :o)

skimming through hundreds, thousands of entries, 
finding those how have exactly 3 authors 
and stuffing the information from the three "\author" fields into the one "a" field!

hope that nothing will go wrong ...


Steffen
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Re: bib module (again)

[Hans Hagen]

On 6-7-2011 12:03, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

> as databases usually have *lots* of entries this really is a daring venture :o)
>
> skimming through hundreds, thousands of entries,
> finding those how have exactly 3 authors
> and stuffing the information from the three "\author" fields into the one "a" field!
>
> hope that nothing will go wrong ...

you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I 
will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority 
on my agenda

Hans

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Re: bib module (again)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Am 06.07.2011 um 12:47 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> On 6-7-2011 12:03, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
>> as databases usually have *lots* of entries this really is a daring venture :o)
>> 
>> skimming through hundreds, thousands of entries,
>> finding those how have exactly 3 authors
>> and stuffing the information from the three "\author" fields into the one "a" field!
>> 
>> hope that nothing will go wrong ...
> 
> you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority on my agenda


an even more challenging option, that might need some extra hooks, is the "ibid" option:

an article is cited in a footnote.
the macro looks if this article is already cited before.
if so it looks if this is exactly the same article as cited directly before.
and it makes sure that it is not the first cite on the current page (resp. spread).

if all these are true, the \cite command gives an "Ibid." instead of the full cite.


as this is provided for latex users by Philipp Lehman with his biblatex package, it is considered to be kind of standard by some publisher today.

Steffen
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Re: bib module (again)

[Stefan Müller]

On 07.07.2011 11:25, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Am 06.07.2011 um 12:47 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority on my agenda
>
> an even more challenging option, that might need some extra hooks, is the "ibid" option:
>
> an article is cited in a footnote.
> the macro looks if this article is already cited before.
> if so it looks if this is exactly the same article as cited directly before.
> and it makes sure that it is not the first cite on the current page (resp. spread).
>
> if all these are true, the \cite command gives an "Ibid." instead of the full cite.
>
>
> as this is provided for latex users by Philipp Lehman with his biblatex package, it is considered to be kind of standard by some publisher today.
>
> Steffen

Hi Steffen,

I think Andreas Schneider posted a working solution for this some time 
ago. 
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100121.112244.d88e2646.en.html

But it is possible that this does not work anymore with the current beta 
(untested).

Best regards,
Stefan.
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Re: bib module (again)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Am 07.07.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Stefan Müller:

> On 07.07.2011 11:25, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> Am 06.07.2011 um 12:47 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>>> you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority on my agenda
>> 
>> an even more challenging option, that might need some extra hooks, is the "ibid" option:
>> 
>> an article is cited in a footnote.
>> the macro looks if this article is already cited before.
>> if so it looks if this is exactly the same article as cited directly before.
>> and it makes sure that it is not the first cite on the current page (resp. spread).
>> 
>> if all these are true, the \cite command gives an "Ibid." instead of the full cite.
>> 
>> 
>> as this is provided for latex users by Philipp Lehman with his biblatex package, it is considered to be kind of standard by some publisher today.
>> 
>> Steffen
> 
> Hi Steffen,
> 
> I think Andreas Schneider posted a working solution for this some time ago. http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100121.112244.d88e2646.en.html
> 
> But it is possible that this does not work anymore with the current beta (untested).
> 
> Best regards,
> Stefan.


Hi Stefan,

thanks for the note. Unfortunately Andreas' module doesn't work anymore.

I had a correspondence with him on that in April this year: 
he could reproduce the error, but had no idea what the reason might be, 
resp. what changes in MkIV now cause a conflict with his module.

Maybe Hans knows?

Steffen
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Re: bib module (again)

[Andreas Schneider]

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On Thursday, July 7, 2011 22:41 Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Hi Stefan,

> thanks for the note. Unfortunately Andreas' module doesn't work anymore.

> I had a correspondence with him on that in April this year: 
> he could reproduce the error, but had no idea what the reason might be,
> resp. what changes in MkIV now cause a conflict with his module.

> Maybe Hans knows?

> Steffen

After  a  lot of work with ConTeXt the past few weeks, I had some more
thoughts  on  possible  causes  for  this problem. I finally found the
culprits:

\expandoneargafter doesn't seem to be around anymore ... it works fine
without, though.

\doifnotempty  doesn't quite seem to work (the way I intend it to), so
I replaced them with \doifnot{...}{}{...}

I  attached  the  current "module" (yes, it's not really a module, but
it's  slightly  more convenient to use that way ... the whole thing is
nothing more than a workaround anyway).

I  hope  I  haven't  killed  any functionality while toying around and
hunting the bug, but at least my Diploma Thesis looks still right when
processed with that "module".

Since  I currently don't use that module actively, I will probably not
enhance  or  otherwise  improve  it.  So  if  anyone  else  feels like
providing a better solution for the Ibidem-problem: please do!

-- 
Best Regards,
Andreas

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\def\mycite{\dodoubleempty\domycite}
\def\defaultciterepeat{Ebenda}
\def\defaultciteprefix{Vgl. }
\def\defaultcitepage{S. }
\def\defaultcitechapter{Kap. }

\def\domycite[#1][#2]{%
  \ifsecondargument%
    \getparameters[MCP][prefix={\defaultciteprefix},page=,chapter=,suffix=,repeat=,#2]%
    \doinsertmycite[#1]{\MCPprefix}{%
      \doifnot{\MCPpage}{}{\ \defaultcitepage\MCPpage.}%
      \doifnot{\MCPchapter}{}{\ \defaultcitechapter\MCPchapter.}%
      \doifnot{\MCPsuffix}{}{\ \MCPsuffix}%
    }%
  \else%
    \doinsertmycite[#1]{\defaultciteprefix}{}%
  \fi%
}

\def\doinsertmycite[#1]#2#3{%
  \footnote{%
    \doifelse{\MCPrepeat}{yes}{\global\setvalue{mycitelast}{#1}}{\doif{\MCPrepeat}{no}{\global\setvalue{mycitelast}{}}}%
    #2\doifnot{#2}{}{\strut}%prefix
    \doifelse{\getvalue{mycitelast}}{#1}%
      {\doifelse{#2}{}%
        {\defaultciterepeat}%
        {\lowercase{\defaultciterepeat}}%If there's a prefix, lower-case the cite-repeat string
        .%
      }%
      {\doifelse{\getvalue{mycitepast #1}}{used}%
        {\bgroup%
         \getcitedata[title][#1] to \bibtitle%
         \getcitedata[arttitle][#1] to \bibarttitle%
         \cite[alternative=authoryear][#1]. {\it\bibtitle\bibarttitle}.%
         \egroup}%
        {\cite[alternative=data][#1]}%
      }%
    #3%suffix
    \global\setvalue{mycitelast}{#1}%
    \global\setvalue{mycitepast #1}{used}%
  }%
}

%Reset last citation on page break (which we check when placing footnotes)
\appendtoks
  \doifnoteonsamepageelse[footnote]{}{\global\setvalue{mycitelast}{}}
\to\everyinsidenoteinsert

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Re: bib module (again)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hi,

Am 07.07.2011 um 23:50 schrieb Andreas Schneider:

> I  hope  I  haven't  killed  any functionality while toying around and
> hunting the bug, but at least my Diploma Thesis looks still right when
> processed with that "module".


could you provide a (minimal) example that demonstrates the functionality you have intended?


Thanks a lot for your efforts,
Steffen
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