Apple Emoji (was: Smileys)

Apple Emoji (was: Smileys)

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 09:12, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> Hello Wolfgang,
>
>> Apples new emoji font is also very interesting but you can’t use it with ConTeXt.
>
> Why is that? Is this a ConTeXt or a LuaTeX limitation?

LuaTeX. Actually, it is a limitation of 99.9% of software out there. I
wasn't able to display the font with any single font editor, including
FontForge and XeTeX (maybe XeTeX would work if somebody would port it
to 64-bit and corresponding new Apple libraries).

As far as LuaTeX support is concerned, here was the latest answer:

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 20:20, Hartmut Henkel wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>> (Hartmut, if you're interested in this funny font thread Mojca can
>> send you the font/test file.)
>
> thanks, but not now, sorry. I'm stuck too deep in the backlogs.
>
> Regards, Hartmut

But even if the font was supported, it might be illegal to use it on
Windows (I'm not sure, I didn't read the licence).

Mojca
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Re: Apple Emoji (was: Smileys)

[Khaled Hosny]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 01:08:18PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> As far as LuaTeX support is concerned, here was the latest answer:
> 
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 20:20, Hartmut Henkel wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Jul 2011, Hans Hagen wrote:
> >
> >> (Hartmut, if you're interested in this funny font thread Mojca can
> >> send you the font/test file.)
> >
> > thanks, but not now, sorry. I'm stuck too deep in the backlogs.
> >
> > Regards, Hartmut

It is a bitmap format, a sort of quick and dirty hack by Apple to please
certain markets and it shouldn't concern a typesetting system (and you
can get multicolored fonts in ConTeXt/LuaTeX in more clean ways).

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Egyptian
 Arab
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Re: Apple Emoji (was: Smileys)

[Patrick Gundlach]

> It is a bitmap format, a sort of quick and dirty hack by Apple to please
> certain markets and it shouldn't concern a typesetting system

I think we should leave it up to the users what they think about using a font like this in typesetting. "640k ought to be enough for anybody"…

:)


I'd like to have "my" typesetting system to be capable of what users demands and not what I think is good for them.



(But this is not a feature request)


Patrick

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Re: Apple Emoji (was: Smileys)

[Khaled Hosny]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 05:29:43PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> 
> > It is a bitmap format, a sort of quick and dirty hack by Apple to please
> > certain markets and it shouldn't concern a typesetting system
> 
> I think we should leave it up to the users what they think about using
> a font like this in typesetting. "640k ought to be enough for
> anybody"…

LuaTeX does not support other more widely used and supported bitmap
fonts (not even bitmaps inside SFNT fonts), why this one would be
different?

> I'd like to have "my" typesetting system to be capable of what users
> demands and not what I think is good for them.

If one need multicolored fonts there is Type3 (if it is supported) or
just a virtual font with PDF specials.  AFAIK, emoji is used in Japan in
SMS and other chat-like stuff, not something luatex is used for (unless
someone is writing a chat client in luatex).

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Egyptian
 Arab
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Re: Apple Emoji (was: Smileys)

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 18:17, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 05:29:43PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to have "my" typesetting system to be capable of what users
>> demands and not what I think is good for them.

If you have a typesetting system, you can still extract all the PNG
images out of the font and replace some unicode letters with
corresponding \externalfigure[...]. You would probably violate the
licence, but you would get the desired result :)

> If one need multicolored fonts there is Type3 (if it is supported) or
> just a virtual font with PDF specials.  AFAIK, emoji is used in Japan in
> SMS and other chat-like stuff, not something luatex is used for (unless
> someone is writing a chat client in luatex).

The font has some nice images that could be used for whatever other
reason, not just SMS.

If you need to quickly find a picture of women with bunny ears for
party invitation for example ...

But joke aside. Even if you need a nice symbol set for horoscope in
the magazine, the font (the symbols, actually) might be handy.

Mojca
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Re: Apple Emoji (was: Smileys)

[Martin Schröder]

2011/8/18 Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com>:
> If you need to quickly find a picture of women with bunny ears for
> party invitation for example ...

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f46f/index.htm ? :-)
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f5fe/index.htm %-}

Was Unicode ever serious?

Best
   Martin
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Re: Apple Emoji

[Hans Hagen]

On 18-8-2011 9:09, Martin Schröder wrote:
> 2011/8/18 Mojca Miklavec<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com>:
>> If you need to quickly find a picture of women with bunny ears for
>> party invitation for example ...
>
> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f46f/index.htm ? :-)
> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f5fe/index.htm %-}

indeed, after I updated char-def.lua a while ago taco and I spend a good 
hour laughing about this ... there are really weird ones .. it's also an 
open door to chaos and it's cultural biased:

CLOSED MAILBOX WITH LOWERED FLAG
CLOSED MAILBOX WITH RAISED FLAG
OPEN MAILBOX WITH RAISED FLAG
OPEN MAILBOX WITH LOWERED FLAG

as there is no

MAILBOX AS PRESCRIBED BY DUTCH PTT
HORIZONTAL MAILBOX SLOT IN DOOR
VERTICAL MAILBOX SLOT IN DOOR WITH WIND FLAP
HORIZONTAL MAILBOX SLOT IN DOOR
VERTICAL MAILBOX SLOT IN DOOR WITH WIND FLAP
MAILBOX ON POLE

etc and I'm sure that there are more variations of

TOILET

> Was Unicode ever serious?

it really makes me wonder why there was a problem with a few extra slots 
when adding math (the holes in some alphabets) ... we could have
opted for

  [0x1D506]={
   category="lu",
   description="MALE TEX LION",
   direction="l",
   linebreak="al",
   specials={ "font", 0x0043 },
   unicodeslot=0x1D506,
  },

and magically render a MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL C there

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: Apple Emoji

[Hans Hagen]

On 18-8-2011 12:15, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 18:17, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 05:29:43PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to have "my" typesetting system to be capable of what users
>>> demands and not what I think is good for them.
>
> If you have a typesetting system, you can still extract all the PNG
> images out of the font and replace some unicode letters with
> corresponding \externalfigure[...]. You would probably violate the
> licence, but you would get the desired result :)

it's a route that i usually want to avoid (apart from the fact that 
fonts bound to platforms are a bad idea)

>> If one need multicolored fonts there is Type3 (if it is supported) or
>> just a virtual font with PDF specials.  AFAIK, emoji is used in Japan in
>> SMS and other chat-like stuff, not something luatex is used for (unless
>> someone is writing a chat client in luatex).
>
> The font has some nice images that could be used for whatever other
> reason, not just SMS.
>
> If you need to quickly find a picture of women with bunny ears for
> party invitation for example ...
>
> But joke aside. Even if you need a nice symbol set for horoscope in
> the magazine, the font (the symbols, actually) might be handy.

as we noticed when we looked into it a while ago, it is not even 
included as real font in pdf, such a thingie becomes an inline bitmap 
(or xform reference) with an invisible character on top (or below) which 
means that one can as well use png's directly ... it's only a font 
because that way the bunch get collected in one place

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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