typesetting bilingual texts

typesetting bilingual texts

[Pablo Rodríguez]

Hi there,

I'm trying to understand how to typeset bilingual texts with ConTeXt.

I'm new to ConTeXt and this is my third try to explain my questions on
the matter. I'm afraid that I can't find the right documentation on it
(or I wouldn't understand it, if I found it). If what I say is wrong (or
I'm doing something wrong here), please tell me.

On bilingual texts typesetting, I have the following examples:

-Homer's “Iliad” and “Odyssey”: Greek text and translation. Original
verse text and facing prose translation. Same numbers of paragraphs and
titles (although Greek titles may contain only the number and translated
titles may contain also text).

-Hegel's »Phänomenologie des Geistes«: German text and translation. Same
number of paragraphs and titles.

-Goethe's “Faust”: Original text and facing verse translation. Same
numbers of paragraphs and verses.

Notes (marginal, footnotes, endnotes) might differ in the original and
translated versions. Both body texts are similar in separation
(paragraphs and titles).

From Wolfgang's example
(http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2011/063353.html: the only
document I have and that I cannot decipher), it seems that you have to
type each translated paragraph after each original paragraph.

Hegel's work cited above contains about 600 pages. Having to copy and
paste every translated paragraph after every original paragraph sounds
crazy (too much work). And as far as I understand computing, this
shouldn't be a hard task to automatize.

Hegel is only an example here, and having to mix both texts not only
involves more work, but it might well lead to errors in the text itself
(not typesetting, but typing).

Not even asking about the code (yet): isn't it possible to typeset a
bilingual document having separate streams that ConTeXt automatically
synchronizes? And isn't it possible to have separate numbering for the
original and translated streams?

Thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: typesetting bilingual texts

[Susan Dittmar]

Dear Pablo,

Quoting Pablo Rodríguez (oinos@web.de):
> Hegel's work cited above contains about 600 pages. Having to copy and
> paste every translated paragraph after every original paragraph sounds
> crazy (too much work). And as far as I understand computing, this
> shouldn't be a hard task to automatize.

I understand your hesitation to do that work by hand. You are right, it
should be easy to do that automatically. But I think ConTeXt, mighty as it
is, is not the right tool to do that merging. How about a small perl script
that does the merging? In fact, any programming language should do, if the
breakpoints are really as easy to spot as you suggest. And then ConTeXt can
do the typesetting without the need to keep 600+ pages of
read-but-not-yet-processed text in memory before it receives the second
half so it can start typesetting...

Hope that helps,

	Susan

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: typesetting bilingual texts

[Hans Hagen]

On 6-1-2012 10:59, Pablo Rodríguez wrote:

> Not even asking about the code (yet): isn't it possible to typeset a
> bilingual document having separate streams that ConTeXt automatically
> synchronizes? And isn't it possible to have separate numbering for the
> original and translated streams?

that's the idea behind streams (there is some example code in the 
testbed under mkiv/streams) but streams is 'work in progress' and part 
of the critical editions (sub)project

if you have specific wishes you should communicate them with Idris and 
Thomas as they are driving this.

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: typesetting bilingual texts

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.01.2012 um 15:10 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> On 6-1-2012 10:59, Pablo Rodríguez wrote:
> 
>> Not even asking about the code (yet): isn't it possible to typeset a
>> bilingual document having separate streams that ConTeXt automatically
>> synchronizes? And isn't it possible to have separate numbering for the
>> original and translated streams?
> 
> that's the idea behind streams (there is some example code in the testbed under mkiv/streams) but streams is 'work in progress' and part of the critical editions (sub)project
> 
> if you have specific wishes you should communicate them with Idris and Thomas as they are driving this.

There is no \flushoutputstreampages in the mkiv version of the streams code
but Pablo want this function of the old code to put on stream on each left page
and the other stream on each right page.

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: typesetting bilingual texts

[Pablo Rodríguez]

On 01/06/2012 12:57 PM, Susan Dittmar wrote:
> Dear Pablo,
>> [...] 
> I understand your hesitation to do that work by hand. You are right, it
> should be easy to do that automatically. But I think ConTeXt, mighty as it
> is, is not the right tool to do that merging. How about a small perl script
> that does the merging? In fact, any programming language should do, if the
> breakpoints are really as easy to spot as you suggest. And then ConTeXt can
> do the typesetting without the need to keep 600+ pages of
> read-but-not-yet-processed text in memory before it receives the second
> half so it can start typesetting...

Dear Susan,

many thanks for your reply.

These examples were only ways to learn ConTeXt to me. No real work.

Although I'm interested in a bilingual Homer edition (just investigating).

Thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: typesetting bilingual texts

[Pablo Rodríguez]

On 01/07/2012 03:10 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 6-1-2012 10:59, Pablo Rodríguez wrote:
> 
>> Not even asking about the code (yet): isn't it possible to typeset a
>> bilingual document having separate streams that ConTeXt automatically
>> synchronizes? And isn't it possible to have separate numbering for the
>> original and translated streams?
> 
> that's the idea behind streams (there is some example code in the 
> testbed under mkiv/streams) but streams is 'work in progress' and part 
> of the critical editions (sub)project

Thanks for your reply and the info, Hans.

There is a small issue that I have to ask, because this is the first
time I know it exists: where can I find the test bed files? (After some
efforts with Google, all I found was
http://www.pragma-ade.com/context/latest/cont-tst.7z.)

Thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: typesetting bilingual texts

[Hans Hagen]

On 8-1-2012 20:49, Pablo Rodríguez wrote:

> There is a small issue that I have to ask, because this is the first
> time I know it exists: where can I find the test bed files? (After some
> efforts with Google, all I found was
> http://www.pragma-ade.com/context/latest/cont-tst.7z.)

indeed, that is where my test files end up

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________