Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Hello ConTeXist..

I have an unusual question: Is it bibliography really such a big problem 
for MKIV or I am unable to do?
Do you have some experience in the bibliography at MKIV? Can you refer 
me to a source of information about this? Submitter thesis has a very 
strict requirement to the list of bibliography. The numbering of 
bibliographic items must be in the same order in which items are used in 
the text. Moreover, in the form of AMS is, [1], [2], etc. I've tried 
many hours, but I am absolutely not able to achieve the required form. I 
do not believe that I will eventually have to write a thesis in LaTeX 
because of the stupid request.
May possibly be some way around? It occurred to me to do an emergency 
way. I want redefine of the \cite macro to macro \CITE. The \CITE macro 
put me list the order bibliographic items  and then I arrange manually a 
list of bibliographic entries. Or exist any external tools for that do it?

Thanx Jaroslav Hajtmar

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On 2/28/12 7:12 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hello ConTeXist..
>
> I have an unusual question: Is it bibliography really such a big problem
> for MKIV or I am unable to do?
> Do you have some experience in the bibliography at MKIV? Can you refer
> me to a source of information about this? Submitter thesis has a very
> strict requirement to the list of bibliography. The numbering of
> bibliographic items must be in the same order in which items are used in
> the text. Moreover, in the form of AMS is, [1], [2], etc. I've tried
> many hours, but I am absolutely not able to achieve the required form. I
> do not believe that I will eventually have to write a thesis in LaTeX
> because of the stupid request.
> May possibly be some way around? It occurred to me to do an emergency
> way. I want redefine of the \cite macro to macro \CITE. The \CITE macro
> put me list the order bibliographic items  and then I arrange manually a
> list of bibliographic entries. Or exist any external tools for that do it?
>
> Thanx Jaroslav Hajtmar

Your question is kind of vague, so it's difficult to give a meaningful 
answer. Bibliographies in mkiv work; a few months ago, I finished a 
scholarly volume with a bibliography of 600 entries. If you have a 
precise question, you better provide a minimal example and show us what 
doesn't work (or what you couldn't achieve). If you have worked many 
hours, you must have something to show.

Best

Thomas
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Stefan Müller]

Hi,

have you tried the following?

\setuppublications[alternative=ams, refcommand=num]

This sets the default cite style to [1], [2], ... You can also see 
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Bibliography and the bib module manual 
which is linked from there.  Sorting the citations by the order in the 
text are the default behavior, it could be set (in \setuppublications) 
with sorttype=cite.

Hope that helps,
Stefan.

On 28.02.2012 19:12, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hello ConTeXist..
>
> I have an unusual question: Is it bibliography really such a big problem
> for MKIV or I am unable to do?
> Do you have some experience in the bibliography at MKIV? Can you refer
> me to a source of information about this? Submitter thesis has a very
> strict requirement to the list of bibliography. The numbering of
> bibliographic items must be in the same order in which items are used in
> the text. Moreover, in the form of AMS is, [1], [2], etc. I've tried
> many hours, but I am absolutely not able to achieve the required form. I
> do not believe that I will eventually have to write a thesis in LaTeX
> because of the stupid request.
> May possibly be some way around? It occurred to me to do an emergency
> way. I want redefine of the \cite macro to macro \CITE. The \CITE macro
> put me list the order bibliographic items and then I arrange manually a
> list of bibliographic entries. Or exist any external tools for that do it?
>
> Thanx Jaroslav Hajtmar
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Hello Thomas.
Thanks for your interest in my problem.

My problem is that while simple basic aplication works fine,  in complex 
applications (including components, images, tables etc) is not 
bibliography in the correct order, or there are errors in the references 
to literature.
During looking for the bugs spent much time, but to no avail. It seems 
that somewhere there is a collision, which affects at first glance 
unrelated things. When I bring a functional solution of a simple example 
to complex applications, then it stops working.

One of the examples of strange collision I sent recently to the 
conference (I send you it again). Captions of figures come in a special 
way to the list of bibliography (as you see in the examples).

I'm trying to gradually phase out the activities section of code to find 
out what causes problems.
So far to no avail! Find a minimal example of when it stops working is 
not so simple.

In the meantime, perhaps enough to figure out why there is a mixing of 
captions of figures with a list of literature.
The original project was done in MKII, where it worked somehow fine. In 
the MKIV I am not able to win over that bibliography.
When  bibliography is working then at the expense of something else.

I send a few of simple minimal examples (including the resulting PDF 
files.) in 
http://public.hajtmar.com/files/tex/context/ntg-context/files-21-02-2012.zip

Can be some things (components, titles, sectioning, buffering) that 
could affect the list of bibliography?

Many thanx
Jaroslav



Dne 28.2.2012 20:19, Thomas A. Schmitz napsal(a):
  > On 2/28/12 7:12 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
  >> Hello ConTeXist..
  >>
  >> I have an unusual question: Is it bibliography really such a big 
problem
  >> for MKIV or I am unable to do?
  >> Do you have some experience in the bibliography at MKIV? Can you refer
  >> me to a source of information about this? Submitter thesis has a very
  >> strict requirement to the list of bibliography. The numbering of
  >> bibliographic items must be in the same order in which items are 
used in
  >> the text. Moreover, in the form of AMS is, [1], [2], etc. I've tried
  >> many hours, but I am absolutely not able to achieve the required 
form. I
  >> do not believe that I will eventually have to write a thesis in LaTeX
  >> because of the stupid request.
  >> May possibly be some way around? It occurred to me to do an emergency
  >> way. I want redefine of the \cite macro to macro \CITE. The \CITE macro
  >> put me list the order bibliographic items  and then I arrange 
manually a
  >> list of bibliographic entries. Or exist any external tools for that 
do it?
  >>
  >> Thanx Jaroslav Hajtmar
  >
  > Your question is kind of vague, so it's difficult to give a 
meaningful answer. Bibliographies in mkiv work; a few months ago, I 
finished a scholarly volume with a bibliography of 600 entries. If you 
have a precise question, you better provide a minimal example and show 
us what doesn't work (or what you couldn't achieve). If you have worked 
many hours, you must have something to show.
  >
  > Best
  >
  > Thomas
  >



___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On 02/29/2012 09:33 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hello Thomas.
> Thanks for your interest in my problem.
>
> My problem is that while simple basic aplication works fine,  in complex
> applications (including components, images, tables etc) is not
> bibliography in the correct order, or there are errors in the references
> to literature.

I had a look at your examples. First, if the sequence of cited items is 
important for you (and it is because you want sorttype=cite), I wouldn't 
put citations and figures into a buffer, that's asking for trouble. That 
leaves the problem with a \cite command within a caption. This looks 
like a real bug to me; I hope Hans has the time to look into it. The 
minimal example is:

\setupbibtex[database=sample]
\setuppublications[alternative=ams, sorttype=cite]

\starttext
citations are \cite[hh2010b] and \cite[hh2010a].

\placefigure[force][fig1]{Caption of figure \cite[Eijkhout1991]}
  		 {\externalfigure[fig1]}

\placepublications[criterium=cite]

\stoptext

All best

Thomas
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Thanx Thomas
Thank you dealt with my problem. Maybe I'm the first to met this bug (if 
a mistake is it).
Regarding the use of buffers: I'll have to remake it, because everything 
I have in principle based just on buffers.
If I could not give a citation link to figure caption then would be a 
huge problem. I'd probably have to deal manually finding bibliography 
items and direct write its numbers into captions to square brackets (ie 
without cite referencing). Although I do not think, it could cause this 
problem. He is occurs even if the citation not appears in caption of figure.

For me it is now very unfortunate that the thesis supervisor requires 
strict order of bibliography as I wrote. I'll try to wait for a possible 
correction, or try about hundred bibliographic items rearrange 
"manually" so that it will by his requirement.
Once again, many thanks.
With greetings Jaroslav





Dne 1.3.2012 10:08, Thomas A. Schmitz napsal(a):
> On 02/29/2012 09:33 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>> Hello Thomas.
>> Thanks for your interest in my problem.
>>
>> My problem is that while simple basic aplication works fine,  in complex
>> applications (including components, images, tables etc) is not
>> bibliography in the correct order, or there are errors in the references
>> to literature.
>
> I had a look at your examples. First, if the sequence of cited items 
> is important for you (and it is because you want sorttype=cite), I 
> wouldn't put citations and figures into a buffer, that's asking for 
> trouble. That leaves the problem with a \cite command within a 
> caption. This looks like a real bug to me; I hope Hans has the time to 
> look into it. The minimal example is:
>
> \setupbibtex[database=sample]
> \setuppublications[alternative=ams, sorttype=cite]
>
> \starttext
> citations are \cite[hh2010b] and \cite[hh2010a].
>
> \placefigure[force][fig1]{Caption of figure \cite[Eijkhout1991]}
>           {\externalfigure[fig1]}
>
> \placepublications[criterium=cite]
>
> \stoptext
>
> All best
>
> Thomas
>

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On 03/01/2012 10:49 AM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Thanx Thomas
> Thank you dealt with my problem. Maybe I'm the first to met this bug (if
> a mistake is it).
> Regarding the use of buffers: I'll have to remake it, because everything
> I have in principle based just on buffers.
> If I could not give a citation link to figure caption then would be a
> huge problem. I'd probably have to deal manually finding bibliography
> items and direct write its numbers into captions to square brackets (ie
> without cite referencing). Although I do not think, it could cause this
> problem. He is occurs even if the citation not appears in caption of
> figure.
>
> For me it is now very unfortunate that the thesis supervisor requires
> strict order of bibliography as I wrote. I'll try to wait for a possible
> correction, or try about hundred bibliographic items rearrange
> "manually" so that it will by his requirement.
> Once again, many thanks.
> With greetings Jaroslav

Yes, it looks like nobody put \cite into captions before you, but I can 
imagine that this is a fairly normal requirement in the sciences. So 
this should in fact work, and you shouldn't have to do this manually, 
this is a bug and should be fixed. The question is a bit how urgently 
you need it. The bibliography mkiv code is something that only Hans can 
touch, so the fix will come, but it will probably take him some time.

Best wishes

Thomas
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Is it bibliography really problem for MKIV?

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Hello Thomas,
I have experimented a bit and found that the problem is not in the 
presence of citation in the caption of figure.
It seems that the problem does not occur only when you insert a figure 
without caption.

See the following example:

Jaroslav



\setupbibtex[database=sample]
\setuppublications[alternative=ams, sorttype=cite]

\starttext
citations are \cite[hh2010b] and \cite[hh2010a].

% \placefigure[force][fig1]{Caption of figure \cite[Eijkhout1991] with 
citation} % with problem
%           {\externalfigure[fig1]}

% \placefigure[force, none][fig1]{} %Figure without caption - no problem 
with bibliography
%            {\externalfigure[fig1]}

\placefigure[force][fig1]{Caption of figure without citation} % with 
problem too
            {\externalfigure[fig1]}


\placepublications[criterium=cite]

\stoptext



Dne 1.3.2012 11:09, Thomas A. Schmitz napsal(a):
> On 03/01/2012 10:49 AM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>> Thanx Thomas
>> Thank you dealt with my problem. Maybe I'm the first to met this bug (if
>> a mistake is it).
>> Regarding the use of buffers: I'll have to remake it, because everything
>> I have in principle based just on buffers.
>> If I could not give a citation link to figure caption then would be a
>> huge problem. I'd probably have to deal manually finding bibliography
>> items and direct write its numbers into captions to square brackets (ie
>> without cite referencing). Although I do not think, it could cause this
>> problem. He is occurs even if the citation not appears in caption of
>> figure.
>>
>> For me it is now very unfortunate that the thesis supervisor requires
>> strict order of bibliography as I wrote. I'll try to wait for a possible
>> correction, or try about hundred bibliographic items rearrange
>> "manually" so that it will by his requirement.
>> Once again, many thanks.
>> With greetings Jaroslav
>
> Yes, it looks like nobody put \cite into captions before you, but I 
> can imagine that this is a fairly normal requirement in the sciences. 
> So this should in fact work, and you shouldn't have to do this 
> manually, this is a bug and should be fixed. The question is a bit how 
> urgently you need it. The bibliography mkiv code is something that 
> only Hans can touch, so the fix will come, but it will probably take 
> him some time.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Thomas
>

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________