SILE typesetter and other projects

SILE typesetter and other projects

[denis.maier]

Hi
I just came across the SILE typesetter (https://sile-typesetter.org), which looks quite interesting and somehow similar to ConTeXt in some ways (e.g. lua), apart from the fact that it does not use TeX at all. ;-) Another project seems to be Patoline. Just out of curiosity: Has anyone some experience with these tools?
Best
Denis
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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[Rudolf Bahr]

Am Sat, Jan 02, 2021 at 10:17:18AM +0000 schrieb denis.maier@ub.unibe.ch:
> Hi
> I just came across the SILE typesetter (https://sile-typesetter.org), which looks quite interesting and somehow similar to ConTeXt in some ways (e.g. lua), apart from the fact that it does not use TeX at all. ;-) Another project seems to be Patoline. Just out of curiosity: Has anyone some experience with these tools?
> Best
> Denis


Hello Denis,

thank you for this interesting link "SILE"!

Rudolf
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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Also thank you!

Patoline is partly LaTeX based, Speedata Publisher uses LuaTeX, and I know of troff and XSL/FO.

I’d be interested to hear about experiences with other code based typesetting engines (besides ConTeXt and LaTeX), since I used LinoSetting and 3B2 in earlier days.

A healthy and happy new year!
Hraban
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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[denis.maier]

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von Henning
> Hraban Ramm
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021 14:45
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] SILE typesetter and other projects
> 
> Also thank you!
> 
> Patoline is partly LaTeX based, Speedata Publisher uses LuaTeX, and I know
> of troff and XSL/FO.

The interesting thing here is that Patoline and SILE use some TeX-like syntax, but the underlying engine is not based on TeX at all. With Speeddata Publisher it's the opposite...

Denis

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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[denis.maier]

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von Hans Hagen
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021 19:19
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>; Jairo A. del Rio
> <jairoadelrio6@gmail.com>
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] SILE typesetter and other projects
> 
[...]

> so my main objective is to modernize this 'good old workhorse tex' because it
> kind of had/has set the standard. And it's kind of fun.
> 
> (It's also why discussions about context versus latex or plain are wasted on
> me: I simply never run into the other systems and/or demands related to
> them, so instead of keeping track I spent non-tex time on reading and
> listening music instead -)

I guess that's a reasonable approach.

Denis
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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[denis.maier]

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Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von Andres Conrado Montoya
Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021 18:19
An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] SILE typesetter and other projects

Hi Denis.

SILE seems interesting, aslo Patoline. However, I think both of these are very immature, and I feel somewhat puzzled by the authors of SILE when they say that you can't do grid typesetting on TeX without horrible hacks, blatantly ignoring ConTeXt's achievements on the matter.

At least on their FAQ on Github they acknowledge ConTeXt regarding grid typesetting: “ConTeXt solves some of it reasonably well, but will not give you flowed frame support”


If you want to check an alternative typesetting system, I would tell you to not look forward but backwards: groff/troff are alive and well, are very mature, and you can find a lot of documentation and tutorials, even a subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/groff/. I would recommend trying the MOM macros for groff: http://www.schaffter.ca/mom/mom-01.html

Thanks, I’ve heard of troff, but I’ve never tried it. I think especially the Heirloom Troff implementation looks quite promising.

Denis

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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[Hans Hagen]

On 1/3/2021 6:26 PM, Jairo A. del Rio wrote:
> Probably the false equivalence TeX = LaTeX which is common to see in 
> many forums and sites on the web: TeX is said not to be able to do X 
> just because LaTeX can't. It's upsetting. groff looks interesting, tho.
FWIW: I never looked into all these system (althouygh i remember reading 
about some postscript related thing decades ago). Just keep in mind that 
'the problem doesn't change' no matter what tools are there .. it's no 
big deal to deal with the 80% but the left over bits often are the 
complication. All this typeseting is very much about perception and 
often playing around and then the question is: what system suits that best.

So there's the issue of interfacing ... I always found the curious tex 
mix interesting (read: if I had to do typesetting and defining styles in 
lua or c of java or html.css ... any such programming language ... i'd 
looked for another hobby long ago). Of course is some project comes 
around that need those approaches and that can pay the bills, I'd pay 
attention to it but till then ... so my main objective is to modernize 
this 'good old workhorse tex' because it kind of had/has set the 
standard. And it's kind of fun.

(It's also why discussions about context versus latex or plain are 
wasted on me: I simply never run into the other systems and/or demands 
related to them, so instead of keeping track I spent non-tex time on 
reading and listening music instead -)

Hans


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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[Jairo A. del Rio]

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Probably the false equivalence TeX = LaTeX which is common to see in many
forums and sites on the web: TeX is said not to be able to do X just
because LaTeX can't. It's upsetting. groff looks interesting, tho.

Jairo

El dom., 3 de ene. de 2021 12:20 p. m., Andres Conrado Montoya <
andresconrado@gmail.com> escribió:

> Hi Denis.
>
> SILE seems interesting, aslo Patoline. However, I think both of these are
> very immature, and I feel somewhat puzzled by the authors of SILE when they
> say that you can't do grid typesetting on TeX without horrible hacks,
> blatantly ignoring ConTeXt's achievements on the matter.
>
> If you want to check an alternative typesetting system, I would tell you
> to not look forward but backwards: groff/troff are alive and well, are very
> mature, and you can find a lot of documentation and tutorials, even a
> subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/groff/. I would recommend trying the
> MOM macros for groff: http://www.schaffter.ca/mom/mom-01.html
>
> --
> Andrés Conrado Montoya
> Andi Kú
> andresconrado@gmail.com
> http://sesentaycuatro.com
> http://messier87.com
> http://chiquitico.org
> ----------------------------------------
> Los fines no justifican los medios, porque la medida verdadera de nuestro
> carácter está dada por los medios que estamos dispuestos a utilizar, no por
> los fines que proclamamos.
> ----------------------------------------
>
> “You develop an instant global consciousness, a people orientation, an
> intense dissatisfaction with the state of the world, and a compulsion to do
> something about it. From out there on the moon, international politics look
> so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag
> him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a
> bitch.’” — Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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Re: SILE typesetter and other projects

[Andres Conrado Montoya]

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Hi Denis.

SILE seems interesting, aslo Patoline. However, I think both of these are
very immature, and I feel somewhat puzzled by the authors of SILE when they
say that you can't do grid typesetting on TeX without horrible hacks,
blatantly ignoring ConTeXt's achievements on the matter.

If you want to check an alternative typesetting system, I would tell you to
not look forward but backwards: groff/troff are alive and well, are very
mature, and you can find a lot of documentation and tutorials, even a
subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/groff/. I would recommend trying the
MOM macros for groff: http://www.schaffter.ca/mom/mom-01.html

-- 
Andrés Conrado Montoya
Andi Kú
andresconrado@gmail.com
http://sesentaycuatro.com
http://messier87.com
http://chiquitico.org
----------------------------------------
Los fines no justifican los medios, porque la medida verdadera de nuestro
carácter está dada por los medios que estamos dispuestos a utilizar, no por
los fines que proclamamos.
----------------------------------------

“You develop an instant global consciousness, a people orientation, an
intense dissatisfaction with the state of the world, and a compulsion to do
something about it. From out there on the moon, international politics look
so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag
him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a
bitch.’” — Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell

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