From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/50761 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Haltiwanger Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Seeking a Deeper ConTeXt: Questions for Initializing Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:30:26 -0400 Message-ID: <4c1f1f860905250930g2e44f973y335be816c2883981@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c1f1f860905241017s40033f7crde553d358a24b57f@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0336084054==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243269105 20436 80.91.229.12 (25 May 2009 16:31:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 16:31:45 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon May 25 18:31:38 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M8d5K-0001OT-Iq for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:31:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08021FD75; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:31:32 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 03361-04; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:30:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEFF1FD5A; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:30:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65CDF1FD5A for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 03103-06-2 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:30:28 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter4-ams.mf.surf.net (filter4-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.72]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036201FD54 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:30:28 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f178.google.com (mail-bw0-f178.google.com [209.85.218.178]) by filter4-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n4PGU7AC018513 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 18:30:08 +0200 Original-Received: by bwz26 with SMTP id 26so3420357bwz.2 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 09:30:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=x/eJxKwlgYmhrFYjLeOInC3IkazdEwjjtSsERkQl6bw=; b=EHSVdFWndx1xqAUmPoeX5GGMe7kOXy9ETw7bqtNNBREYmp55tLbZ2latrmIltN0VKN vHdO4NVTrEiSgY2v95b19s9oMNY1GEWlxD3ZguLYA/nuqwdIjdLyVmez0PGirKIAAUq9 QwoxVK1aOiU9dsqtl1bl1Jnjd6uluYVob1Trk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=tCQwFIlGNBIqqlXd6Lht8OMVvRiR1FF6ET1JmIgpfk1gWIHQdWKcxGwilDxv+Np/++ WpTf6jGSAsXSUxfog0Yu6oruEMba4+Vdt8cyAFij5X8OQPOpSQ86o1TN/kgzDgYIn7kt UrwbGaYP8bm2bkfUKf19Fo6X4Ye/gkO4bGYa4= Original-Received: by 10.223.126.1 with SMTP id a1mr3569212fas.78.1243269026725; Mon, 25 May 2009 09:30:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=209.85.218.178; country=US; region=CA; city=Mountain View; postalcode=94043; latitude=37.4192; longitude=-122.0574; metrocode=807; areacode=650; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.4192,-122.0574&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 231408129 - 032a07843f20 - 20090525 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.72 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:50761 Archived-At: --===============0336084054== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a537b2be71046abf20c2 --001636c5a537b2be71046abf20c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote: > Am 2009-05-24 um 19:17 schrieb John Haltiwanger: > > 1) Can environment files be used across documents, or is it generally >> understood that every ConTeXt document requires its own environment >> formatting? (The latter is the view of someone on c.t.t, who said his >> perception of ConTeXt was that it was for typesetting individual documents >> and had less application beyond that domain.) >> > > Normally you use environment files for coherent projects (magazines, books) > or sets of similar documents (letters, presentations). > > The difference in usage between a LaTeX document class and a ConTeXt > environment is neglectable IMO. The real difference is that most LaTeX users > just *use* some document class unchanged, because LaTeX doesn't encourage > defining your own, while there are nearly no ready-to-use ConTeXt > environments available and most ConTeXt users want write their own anyway. > > For one-off documents I put everything in one file (and perhaps copy setup > bits from other one-off files or environments). > > If *I* require a special layout for a single document, I normally use > InDesign. The effort of "programming" a setup or an environment pays off > only if you use it more often IMO. > These paragraphs seems to contradict. ConTeXt is useful if you use an environment more than once, but there are no ready-to-use ConTeXt environments. I am not averse to rolling my own, I am just confused why, if environments are so powerful and flexible (flexible meaning one can easily change things, unlike document classes), there are no pre-rolled environments available. I am thinking here of standardized thesis environments for universities, or a nice letter environment to demonstrate the beauty of TeX. 2) What is the state of XML output for ConTeXt files? I have to say I will > find it hard to justify using TeX for documents if it means they are not > translatable to XML easily. I'm also interested in any RDF support ConTeXt > might have. > XML is no target format for any TeX implementation. > XML is a source format, and a good one if you want to process (typeset) it > with ConTeXt (and perhaps make HTML from the same source). > > What do you mean with RDF? This one?: http://www.w3.org/RDF/ > Or did you mean RTF? Yes, I meant RDF. XML is a very important format. I find it odd that TeX can generate PDF but cannot output simple XML. So in order to have a semantical document I must write it in XML and then process it with ConTeXt? Is the capacity there (through LuaTeX perhaps) to write an XML generator? While I would expect the reasons for wanting XML output would be obvious, a concrete example is that at least one journal is deprecating LaTeX because it wants to archive all of its articles in XML. Regards, John C. Haltiwanger --001636c5a537b2be71046abf20c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Henning= Hraban Ramm <hraba= n@fiee.net> wrote:
Am 2009-05-24 um 19:17 schrieb John Haltiwanger:


1) Can environment files be used across documents, or is it generally under= stood that every ConTeXt document requires its own environment formatting? = (The latter is the view of someone on c.t.t, who said his perception of Con= TeXt was that it was for typesetting individual documents and had less appl= ication beyond that domain.)

Normally you use environment files for coherent projects (magazines, books)= or sets of similar documents (letters, presentations).

The difference in usage between a LaTeX document class and a ConTeXt enviro= nment is neglectable IMO. The real difference is that most LaTeX users just= *use* some document class unchanged, because LaTeX doesn't encourage d= efining your own, while there are nearly no ready-to-use ConTeXt environmen= ts available and most ConTeXt users want write their own anyway.

For one-off documents I put everything in one file (and perhaps copy setup = bits from other one-off files or environments).

If *I* require a special layout for a single document, I normally use InDes= ign. The effort of "programming" a setup or an environment pays o= ff only if you use it more often IMO.


These paragraphs seems to contradict. ConTeXt is = useful if you use an environment more than once, but there are no ready-to-= use ConTeXt environments.

I am not averse to rolling my own, I am ju= st confused why, if environments are so powerful and flexible (flexible mea= ning one can easily change things, unlike document classes), there are no p= re-rolled environments available. I am thinking here of standardized thesis= environments for universities, or a nice letter environment to demonstrate= the beauty of TeX.
=A0

2) What is the state of XML output for ConTeXt files? I have to say I will = find it hard to justify using TeX for documents if it means they are not tr= anslatable to XML easily. I'm also interested in any RDF support ConTeX= t might have.

XML is no target format for any TeX implementation.
XML is a source format, and a good one if you want to process (typeset) it = with ConTeXt (and perhaps make HTML from the same source).

What do you mean with RDF? This one?: http://www.w3.org/RDF/
Or did you mean RTF?

Yes, I meant RDF. XML is a very i= mportant format. I find it odd that TeX can generate PDF but cannot output = simple XML. So in order to have a semantical document I must write it in XM= L and then process it with ConTeXt? Is the capacity there (through LuaTeX p= erhaps) to write an XML generator?

While I would expect the reasons for wanting XML output would be obviou= s, a concrete example is that at least one journal is deprecating LaTeX bec= ause it wants to archive all of its articles in XML.

Regards,
John C. Haltiwanger
=A0


--001636c5a537b2be71046abf20c2-- --===============0336084054== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============0336084054==--