Re: Color separation...

Re: Color separation...

[Joop Susan]

> At 12:15 PM 9/13/2001 +0200, Joop Susan wrote:
> 
> >Do I have to live with being able to use ConTeXt (under Linux) for
> >black-n-white PDF files only? The printing firm that I use only accepts
> >color separated PDF files for porting my work to their Mac based systems...
> 
> if this is a professional printing firm they'd better have the proper plug 
> ins. The idea behind pdf is that all rip specific things happen at the end. 
> So, separated pdf is something in the rip of for parallel ripping and 
> alike. Separation may depend on many things and it's not your 
> responsibility to compensate for color corrections. Is this a professional 
> printing house?
> 

They say they are. We normally don't have problems with our black-n-white 
magazine. Looks like I have to call them again and ask them if they have 
the rip software. Let's see how professional they are...

Joop

PS. Printing house is "Combiwerk, Delft, The netherlands".

J.

Re: Color separation...

[Hans Hagen]

At 01:25 PM 9/13/2001 +0200, Joop Susan wrote:

>They say they are. We normally don't have problems with our black-n-white
>magazine. Looks like I have to call them again and ask them if they have
>the rip software. Let's see how professional they are...
>
>Joop
>
>PS. Printing house is "Combiwerk, Delft, The netherlands".

If you have problems, ask Frans Goddijn, who is an expert in dealing with 
printing houses that cannot print pdf

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Color separation

[Duncan Hothersall]

> whow, a demanding color user -)
> 
> ...
> 
> overprint=yes
> 
> ...

Aaaah. Thanks you so very much Hans. Of course, as ever, the answer is a 
single setting which solves all my problems.

Off to add this gold to the wiki...

Duncan

Re: Color separation

[Duncan Hothersall]

>> 2. is there a way I can check that it is working properly without
>> sending it to the printer each time?
> 
> Acrobat has an overprint preview since v5; AFAIK Reader got it in v7.

Yes... but it doesn't show up any problem. (Well, it just displays the 
same thing with overprint preview as without.) *But* in Acrobat 
Professional 7, doing a preflight check for CMYK+Spot output, it 
complains about overprint = off on all the text on tints. So I guess 
there is a problem in some way? This is why I am confused.

Knowing what ConTeXt incantations *should* make it work would be a 
start, and then I can tell the printer that they have to fix it! :-)

Duncan

Re: Color separation

[Hans Hagen]

Duncan Hothersall wrote:
>>> 2. is there a way I can check that it is working properly without
>>> sending it to the printer each time?
>>
>>
>> Acrobat has an overprint preview since v5; AFAIK Reader got it in v7.
> 
> 
> Yes... but it doesn't show up any problem. (Well, it just displays the 
> same thing with overprint preview as without.) *But* in Acrobat 
> Professional 7, doing a preflight check for CMYK+Spot output, it 
> complains about overprint = off on all the text on tints. So I guess 
> there is a problem in some way? This is why I am confused.

hm, i don't have the full acrobat 7 (only 6)



Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Color separation

[Duncan Hothersall]

Sorry for all the messages; I am exploring things I don't really 
understand. I hope someone can enlighten me!

With the following colour set-up:

\setupcolors[rgb=no,cmyk=yes,spot=yes,state=start]
\definecolor[PantoneTwoNineFour][c=1,m=.56,y=0,k=.18]
\definecolor[IFSbluetabletint][PantoneTwoNineFour][p=.15]

and then using this tint as a textbackground and also as a 
backgroundcolor in frames, I am getting complaints from my printers that 
black overprinted on the tint is 'knocking out' the tint and leaving 
white on the separated plate.

I have read and re-read the useful msplit.pdf which suggests that the 
implicit criterium=all will negate this effect, but perhaps I have 
misunderstood?

Two questions:
1. how can I stop black overprinting from knocking out the tint, and
2. is there a way I can check that it is working properly without 
sending it to the printer each time?

Thanks as ever for any help. Do I need to post example output?

Duncan

Re: Color separation

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 17.03.2005 um 15:35 schrieb Duncan Hothersall:
> 2. is there a way I can check that it is working properly without 
> sending it to the printer each time?

Acrobat has an overprint preview since v5; AFAIK Reader got it in v7.

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net

Re: Color separation

[Hans Hagen]

Duncan Hothersall wrote:
> Sorry for all the messages; I am exploring things I don't really 
> understand. I hope someone can enlighten me!
> 
> With the following colour set-up:
> 
> \setupcolors[rgb=no,cmyk=yes,spot=yes,state=start]
> \definecolor[PantoneTwoNineFour][c=1,m=.56,y=0,k=.18]
> \definecolor[IFSbluetabletint][PantoneTwoNineFour][p=.15]
> 
> and then using this tint as a textbackground and also as a 
> backgroundcolor in frames, I am getting complaints from my printers that 
> black overprinted on the tint is 'knocking out' the tint and leaving 
> white on the separated plate.
> 
> I have read and re-read the useful msplit.pdf which suggests that the 
> implicit criterium=all will negate this effect, but perhaps I have 
> misunderstood?
> 
> Two questions:
> 1. how can I stop black overprinting from knocking out the tint, and
> 2. is there a way I can check that it is working properly without 
> sending it to the printer each time?
> 
> Thanks as ever for any help. Do I need to post example output?

whow, a demanding color user -)

see mag-0006.pdf for more info on properties


\setupcolors[state=start,textcolor=cyan,overprint=yes]

\setupbackgrounds[page][background=color,backgroundcolor=magenta]

\starttext

\input tufte

\startproperty[knockout]\input tufte\stopproperty

\startproperty[overprint]\input tufte\stopproperty

\input tufte

\stoptext



-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Color separation

[Adam Lindsay]

On 17 Mar 2005, at 16:52, Hans Hagen wrote:

> \setupcolors[state=start,textcolor=cyan,overprint=yes]
>
> \setupbackgrounds[page][background=color,backgroundcolor=magenta]
>
Wow.
That's a really obnoxious-looking document.
Well done!  :D

adam

Re: Color separation...

[Joop Susan]

> At 10:35 AM 9/13/2001 +0200, Joop Susan wrote:
> 
> >Hallo,
> >
> >I need CMYK separation for my ConTeXt generated document.
> >
> >Can anyone tell me how to do that?
> 
> In the pdf world color separation is a postprocessing thing [often in-rip]. 
> The crackerjack plug in does a decent job.
> 

Hallo Hans,

What is this "crackerjack plug in". A plug-in for what? Is that a Windows 
only affair?

I've searched the intenet and do you mean

 http://www.lantanarips.com/CJ3_1PR.html

$495 is unaffordable for me...

Do I have to live with being able to use ConTeXt (under Linux) for 
black-n-white PDF files only? The printing firm that I use only accepts 
color separated PDF files for porting my work to their Mac based systems...

Joop

Re: Color separation...

[Hans Hagen]

At 12:15 PM 9/13/2001 +0200, Joop Susan wrote:

>Do I have to live with being able to use ConTeXt (under Linux) for
>black-n-white PDF files only? The printing firm that I use only accepts
>color separated PDF files for porting my work to their Mac based systems...

if this is a professional printing firm they'd better have the proper plug 
ins. The idea behind pdf is that all rip specific things happen at the end. 
So, separated pdf is something in the rip of for parallel ripping and 
alike. Separation may depend on many things and it's not your 
responsibility to compensate for color corrections. Is this a professional 
printing house?

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Color separation...

[Taco Hoekwater]

Joop Susan wrote:
> Do I have to live with being able to use ConTeXt (under Linux) for
> black-n-white PDF files only? The printing firm that I use only accepts
> color separated PDF files for porting my work to their Mac based systems...

This implies that they are using the Quark Express plugin filter oss.
instead
of Adobe's PDF processing tools.

These plugin filters are unreliable anyway and I wouldn't trust them
with 
b/w PDFs either: you can generally count on font problems as well (esp.
from 
TeX documents).

My advise: find a better equipped printing house.

Greetings, Taco

Re: Color separation...

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Taco Hoekwater schrieb:
>My advise: find a better equipped printing house.

As a printing professional I must agree.
A printshop that can't separate your PDF data will not survive nowadays.

-- 
Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/   (Formelsammlung)
http://www.angerweit.de/        (Musik)
http://www.ramm.ch/          (Privates)

Color separation...

[Joop Susan]

Hallo,

I need CMYK separation for my ConTeXt generated document.

Can anyone tell me how to do that?

Joop

Re: Color separation...

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:35 AM 9/13/2001 +0200, Joop Susan wrote:

>Hallo,
>
>I need CMYK separation for my ConTeXt generated document.
>
>Can anyone tell me how to do that?

In the pdf world color separation is a postprocessing thing [often in-rip]. 
The crackerjack plug in does a decent job.

Hans

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

color separation

[Hraban]

How far go ConTeXt's capabilities in color separation?

- What part does the job? (pdfTeX?)
- Does it get RGB-pictures separated or
  only single defined object colors (or just less)?

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
http://www.planet-interkom.de/fiee.visuelle/formelsammlung.html

Re: color separation

[George N. White III]

On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Hraban wrote:

> How far go ConTeXt's capabilities in color separation?
>
> - What part does the job? (pdfTeX?)
> - Does it get RGB-pictures separated or
>   only single defined object colors (or just less)?
>
> Grüßlis vom Hraban!
> ---
> http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
> http://www.planet-interkom.de/fiee.visuelle/formelsammlung.html

Our printer has new software to color separate RGB pdf's (produced using
ConTeXt --> .dvi --> dvipsone --> Distiller) that works very well.
Previously we had used PageMaker PS with CMYK images.

-- 
George White <gnw3@acm.org>  tel: 902.426.8509
 Bedford Inst. of Oceanography, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Re: color separation

[siepo]

On  2 Dec, Hraban wrote:
> 
> How far go ConTeXt's capabilities in color separation?
> 
> - What part does the job? (pdfTeX?)
> - Does it get RGB-pictures separated or
>   only single defined object colors (or just less)?
> 
> Grüßlis vom Hraban!
> ---
> http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
> http://www.planet-interkom.de/fiee.visuelle/formelsammlung.html

I don't know about Context, but you can color separate arbitrary dvi
files via dvips: use a header file colorsep.pro which redefines colors
for each of the separation plates. This file is included on the TeXLive 
cd and its use it documented in the LaTeX Graphics Companion. I don't 
know whether it can be made to work with dvipsone. It doesn't work with 
bitmapped rgb images but should work with bitmapped
cmyk images. I have used this for some real work.

Or you can separate arbitrary PostScript level 1 with
aurora, which can be obtained from the author's home page:
www.cs.adfa.edu.au/~gfreeman/index.html. This one can handle rgb images.
I believe you use it by simply prepending aurora.pro and a
plate-specific header file to your PostScript file.

-- 
Siep Kroonenberg

Re: color separation

[Hraban]

Thanks, but sorry, George and Siep,
but I didn't want to know, how to separate (I've some
experience with In-RIP-Separation etc.);
but I want to know, what is possible with *ConTeXt*.

Grüßlis vom Hraban!

Re: color separation

[Hraban]

siepo@client44-3.kabelA.oprit.rug.nl wrote:
> Or you can separate arbitrary PostScript level 1 with
> aurora, which can be obtained from the author's home page:
> www.cs.adfa.edu.au/~gfreeman/index.html. This one can handle rgb images.
> I believe you use it by simply prepending aurora.pro and a
> plate-specific header file to your PostScript file.

I just had a look on aurora.
I don't understand everything, and my printer stops after page 14 of
ther docs, but the capabilities of this "simple" solution are
fascinating: It can even handle spot colors! That is, it can even
filter this colors out of RGB or CMYK bitmap pictures! This can't
be done with most professional software like Photoshop or QuarkXPress!

Almighty Hans, could you please have a look at CTAN:support/aurora
and integrate this nice thingy with texexec? (I trust in you, that
you are able to improve the code...) Pleeeaase! ;-)

-- 
Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
http://www.planet-interkom.de/fiee.visuelle/formelsammlung.html

Re: color separation

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:48 PM 12/4/00 +0100, Hraban wrote:
>siepo@client44-3.kabelA.oprit.rug.nl wrote:
>> Or you can separate arbitrary PostScript level 1 with
>> aurora, which can be obtained from the author's home page:
>> www.cs.adfa.edu.au/~gfreeman/index.html. This one can handle rgb images.
>> I believe you use it by simply prepending aurora.pro and a
>> plate-specific header file to your PostScript file.
>
>I just had a look on aurora.
>I don't understand everything, and my printer stops after page 14 of
>ther docs, but the capabilities of this "simple" solution are
>fascinating: It can even handle spot colors! That is, it can even
>filter this colors out of RGB or CMYK bitmap pictures! This can't
>be done with most professional software like Photoshop or QuarkXPress!
>
>Almighty Hans, could you please have a look at CTAN:support/aurora
>and integrate this nice thingy with texexec? (I trust in you, that
>you are able to improve the code...) Pleeeaase! ;-)

There is some interesting polish code around too [from the famous boguslaw
jackowski cum suis] which i have to look into. 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------