web site

web site

[Hans Hagen]

Hi,

I still have to re-arrange the domain name, but the new site (that is, old 
site with new content) can be reached at:

   ds035.xs4all.nl

it's a dedicated server on a pretty fast backbone. I still have to redo the 
pod.cod sites.

There are new manuals there as well as regenerated versions of older ones. 
We plan to upgrade some of them on a short notice (the beginners one, 
texexec, metafun and the big one). Some of you sent me corrections, which 
are not yet done but will be done.

The qrc's are a mixture of new cover and old content, but the tables will 
be upgraded (new look and feel) too. This process goes hand in hand with 
the xml based interface definitions.

There is also a new context zip. There are new xml things in there but the 
schema's are yet inperfect. Although i still have to move some 
optimizations in the kernel (testing them now) this new version should run 
much faster although it may go unnoticed on small and relatively simple jobs.

I will upload more manuals and goodies later, but it may be worth to follow 
the "big picture" link on the first page. This will bring you to the new 
pdf based navigation shell. The basic documents is:

   showcase.pdf

and the sub documents:

   show-man.pdf  : an overview of all manuals
   show-pre.pdf  : documentation of the presentation styles + examples
   show-dem.pdf  : the demos
   show-pap.pdf  : papers
   show-art.pdf  : articles

I tried to make them nice documents and they also show a couple of metapost 
tricks. Downloading show-pre and show-man make take some time (a couple of 
megs) but is worth doing. Of course this is all "work in progress". [there 
is also a zip with presentation stuff under /zipped/present.zip).

If you save your documentation files in the same structure as the site 
(most manuals are searched under general/manuals) you havea nice interface 
to all context documents.

Later i will try to make a kind of mirror script (maybe in texexec) so that 
documentation can be fetched/updated automatically [too many massive wget 
--mir's will overflow our monthly bandwidth budget -)].

Hans

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: web site

[Marco Kuhlmann]

Hans Hagen wrote (2001-11-13 (22:11)):

> I tried to make them nice documents and they also show a couple of metapost 
> tricks. Downloading show-pre and show-man make take some time (a couple of 
> megs) but is worth doing. Of course this is all "work in progress". [there 
> is also a zip with presentation stuff under /zipped/present.zip).

You finally got me. I just erased latex from harddisk. :-) If
only m-math would work... <hint>

I just noticed a broken link on http://ds035.xs4all.nl/beta.htm

    Thanks for this great work,
    Marco

-- 
Marco Kuhlmann                             marco.kuhlmann@gmx.net

Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Tuesday, November 13, 2001 Marco Kuhlmann wrote:

MK> You finally got me. I just erased latex from harddisk. :-) If
MK> only m-math would work... <hint>

I'm not dumping LaTeX exactly for that reason. Doing math in
ConTeXt (which is basically plain TeX) is too hard.

BTW, it is possible to use m-math with the latest ConTeXt,
provided a couple of blocks are commented. Anyway, I'm reworking
another one from scratch ... will see if I can make it usefull.

--
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Hans Hagen]

At 12:38 PM 11/14/2001 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

>Tuesday, November 13, 2001 Marco Kuhlmann wrote:
>
>MK> You finally got me. I just erased latex from harddisk. :-) If
>MK> only m-math would work... <hint>
>
>I'm not dumping LaTeX exactly for that reason. Doing math in
>ConTeXt (which is basically plain TeX) is too hard.
>
>BTW, it is possible to use m-math with the latest ConTeXt,
>provided a couple of blocks are commented. Anyway, I'm reworking
>another one from scratch ... will see if I can make it usefull.

much of the math module can go or remapped onto other context things; 
actually i want a much more higher level package (also moe tuned for 
educational purposes). The main thing in the math module is the breaking of 
long formulas and bold fonts.

What exactly is it that latex math has that context doesn't?

Hans

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re[2]: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 Hans Hagen wrote:

HH> much of the math module can go or remapped onto other context
HH> things; actually i want a much more higher level package (also
HH> moe tuned for educational purposes). The main thing in the
HH> math module is the breaking of long formulas and bold fonts.

HH> What exactly is it that latex math has that context doesn't?

Mostly user level commands to ease the use of different kinds of
equations/equation groups, and better for to plain TeX commands,
sometimes with automatic things.

All of them can be achieved via plain TeX (obviously), but with
*much* more troubles. If you want, I can send you the PDF manual
created by the .dtx file (something like a compiled module in
ConTeXt) -- 320Kb, about 90 pages of commented code.

Breaking equations is *not* an AMS-LaTeX feature. AFAIK it comes
from the (LaTeX) package breqn.

Anyway, AMS features can be summed up as:

(1) choice of placement of limits on or around integrals,
sums/products and operator names (three options), and more generic
forms of integrals. Not hard to implement, I would say. And AFAIK
functioning from Taco's module.

(2) flushing equations left or centering them. Haven't tested this
in Taco's module.

(3) a \text command which inserts standard text with appropriate
font size (small in superscripts, etc). AFAIK, functioning from
Taco's module.

(4) Poor man's bold and bold symbols. I don't need this (so I
won't try to implement it), but others might.

(5) Operator names. AFAIK, functioning from Taco's module.

(6) Math spacing commands, functioning in text as well

(7) Various ellipsis positioning (bottom, middle, etc), with
choice of autodetection of correct position depending on
surrounding text.

(8) single-command calls to \left| and friends (\lvert, etc)

(9) Fractions in the form \frac{num}{den} and friends (a LaTeX-way
wrapper around \over and friends). AFAIK, functioning from Taco's
module.

(10) different roots and radicals management.

(11) Greek letter variants which do not overwrite original defs

(12) More delimiter sizes, and more generic commands to choose
them

(13) Math accents (more and with better positioning). Very tricky,
and AFAIK the less functioning part of Taco's module. But even in
LaTeX it's a horrible hack (as it is whenever something depends on
fonts ...). Probably needs core hooks and switches. But I assume
you already had a talk with Taco on this.

(14) Extensible arrows.

And serious stuff like:

(15) subarray (for super/subscripter arrays); substack as a
variation for it

(16) matrices (including environment cases)

(17) subequations and their numbering; appropriate equation
numbering; tag (number) placement (top, bottom, center; style;
cancelling it)

(18) multiline equations, split by the user, with choice of
alignment (both full split equation and partial split equations,
as a subenvironment of another display math)

(19) equation groups with and without alignment

(20) quick choice of the different combos (aligned, nonaligned,
numbered and unnumbered). Shortcut \[ ... \] for unnumbered
displaymath.

What is basically missing from Taco's module is 18--20 (and of
course, they are the one I use most!).

I think that the only thing that needs to be done in ConTeXt core
is the math accent stuff. Everything else should be fine as it is
in Taco's module, except maybe for some font stuff which should be
adapted to the new ConTeXt internals. But this is for sure
something *I* am not able to do (would need to study ConTeXt font
internals thoroughly, and this is not the right moment).

--
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re[2]: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Hans Hagen]

At 05:25 PM 11/14/2001 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

>I think that the only thing that needs to be done in ConTeXt core
>is the math accent stuff. Everything else should be fine as it is
>in Taco's module, except maybe for some font stuff which should be
>adapted to the new ConTeXt internals. But this is for sure
>something *I* am not able to do (would need to study ConTeXt font
>internals thoroughly, and this is not the right moment).

So, to summarize, we have several functions of the module:

(1) fonts
(2) amslatex compatible commands
(3) breaking math

Taco and I will handle (1) also because it is related to the new math 
symbol collections and mathml.

If you can strip out all (2) and (3) specific thinsg (watch out: things 
like smashing are context core functionality) we can incrementaly replace 
m-math.

I will clean up (2) code anyway (at least check it for things that can go 
into math-ext instead of a module.)

Btw, spacing issues (like classes of display math) are core functionality 
already but i may need to extend it., so there will be left overs "to do".

Hans

PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least it is a 
better way to control consistency.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re[3]: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 Hans Hagen wrote:

HH> At 05:25 PM 11/14/2001 +0100, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

>>I think that the only thing that needs to be done in ConTeXt core
>>is the math accent stuff. Everything else should be fine as it is
>>in Taco's module, except maybe for some font stuff which should be
>>adapted to the new ConTeXt internals. But this is for sure
>>something *I* am not able to do (would need to study ConTeXt font
>>internals thoroughly, and this is not the right moment).

HH> So, to summarize, we have several functions of the module:

HH> (1) fonts
HH> (2) amslatex compatible commands
HH> (3) breaking math

HH> Taco and I will handle (1) also because it is related to the new math 
HH> symbol collections and mathml.

Yes, I've seen that most of all is there already (even if I seem
to have problems activating it ... how do you call the math symbol
collection? How do you call the symbols? Trying
\enablecollection[ams] and \symbol[varnothing] or \varnothing
fails!).

HH> If you can strip out all (2) and (3) specific thinsg (watch out: things 
HH> like smashing are context core functionality) we can incrementaly replace 
HH> m-math.

Uhm. I think that I will just strip (3) from the current module
--never used it, don't know how to handle it.

I will try to get something done with (2), but don't expect
anything useful too soon --I'm trying to study pretty hard for the
next couple of months.

HH> I will clean up (2) code anyway (at least check it for things that can go 
HH> into math-ext instead of a module.)

Yes. The problem in (2) is that I will have to understand LaTeX
internals and how they are called, together with ConTeXt internals
and how to call them, because unless I go the "reimplementation
from stratch" way I will have to build some kind of emulation
code. Uhm.

HH> Btw, spacing issues (like classes of display math) are core functionality 
HH> already but i may need to extend it., so there will be left overs "to do".

I need these. How do I access them? Are they documented? Which
ConTeXt module should I study?

HH> PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least it is a
HH> better way to control consistency.

No way! MathML (like all XML) is overkill and only makes sense if
an appropriate user interface (via editor or conversion) is build.

--
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Marco Kuhlmann]

Giuseppe Bilotta wrote (2001-11-15 (13:23)):

> HH> PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least it is a
> HH> better way to control consistency.
> 
> No way! MathML (like all XML) is overkill and only makes sense if
> an appropriate user interface (via editor or conversion) is build.

Like Emacs, you mean? :-)

Earnestly, I would like to have the option of entering MathML.
Of course, you can't make it the only choice, because then you
would loose all the TeX compatibility and scare off people who
want to convert to ConTeXt.

    Marco

-- 
Marco Kuhlmann                             marco.kuhlmann@gmx.net

Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Hans Hagen]

At 02:07 PM 11/15/2001 +0000, Marco Kuhlmann wrote:
>Giuseppe Bilotta wrote (2001-11-15 (13:23)):
>
> > HH> PS. Maybe entering math in mathml syntax makes more sense; at least 
> it is a
> > HH> better way to control consistency.
> >
> > No way! MathML (like all XML) is overkill and only makes sense if
> > an appropriate user interface (via editor or conversion) is build.
>
>Like Emacs, you mean? :-)
>
>Earnestly, I would like to have the option of entering MathML.

well, go ahead then:

\usemodule[mathml]

\startXMLdata
   <math><apply><plus/>......
\stopXMLdata

should work right now.

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Marco Kuhlmann]

Hans Hagen wrote (2001-11-15 (16:55)):

> >Earnestly, I would like to have the option of entering MathML.
> 
> well, go ahead then:

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. What I meant was that I
appreciate the option of entering math using MathML, but it
should not be the only way.

    Marco

-- 
Marco Kuhlmann                             marco.kuhlmann@gmx.net

Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Taco Hoekwater]

For Marco:
% start demo.tex
\usemodule[mathml]

\starttext 
This
\startXMLdata
   <math><apply><plus/><mn>1</mn><mn>2</mn></apply></math>
\stopXMLdata

That $1+2$

\stoptext
% end demo.tex

-- 
groeten,

Taco

Re: Math module (Re[2]: web site)

[Hans Hagen]

At 04:38 PM 11/19/2001 +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

>For Marco:
>% start demo.tex
>\usemodule[mathml]
>
>\starttext
>This
>\startXMLdata
>    <math><apply><plus/><mn>1</mn><mn>2</mn></apply></math>
>\stopXMLdata
>
>That $1+2$
>
>\stoptext
>% end demo.tex

<cn>1</cn>...

is more in tune with the content math wrapper "apply"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------