* [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt]
@ 2002-02-26 12:50 Tobias Burnus
2002-02-27 0:33 ` Marko Schuetz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Tobias Burnus @ 2002-02-26 12:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
Wrong "From" email address.
-------- Original Message --------
Betreff: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt
Datum: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:08:33 +0100
Von: Tobias Burnus <burnus@net-b.de>
An: NTG-ConTeXt <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
CC: Tobias Burnus <tobias.burnus@physik.fu-berlin.de>
Hi,
I installed a bug tracking system (Bugzilla) for ConTeXt and PPCHTeX on
http://bugzilla.physik.fu-berlin.de:8080/context/
This location may move in the future (for instance to Hans server), all
data is saved in a separate database (besides "our" bugzilla at
http://bugzilla.physik.fu-berlin.de:8080/bugzilla/) and daily backuped.
The server is presently a Debian Woody Athlon 800 MHz with (only) 128 MB
Ram.
Hans asked me to stress that he wants to spend more time on coding than
on managing bug reports:
> now, we need to establish a strategy, like, only serious bugs are reported,
> otherwise we end up in spending our lives doing admin work; also, with
> regards to bugs in manuals, i favor 'collected bugs', not one entry per
> type -)
Since port 80 is blocked at the FU firewall, the 8080 is presently
needed (this may change in the future, but 8080 will continue to work).
With bugzilla it is even possible to produce XML output thus I'm sure
that Hans comes up with a bugreports-to-PDF publishing-on-demand
solution one day ;-)
http://bugzilla.physik.fu-berlin.de:8080/context/xml.cgi
Send me suggestion what should be changed
(such as available products, components, keywords (presently none), ...)
With warm regards,
Tobias
PS: If needed be I can also set up a FAQ system like FAQ-O-Matic.
--
This above all: To thine own self be true / And it must follow as
the night the day / Thou canst not then be false to any man.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-26 12:50 [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] Tobias Burnus @ 2002-02-27 0:33 ` Marko Schuetz 2002-02-27 11:23 ` Tobias Burnus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Marko Schuetz @ 2002-02-27 0:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context Tobias, From: Tobias Burnus <burnus@gmx.de> Subject: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:50:45 +0100 [..] > I installed a bug tracking system (Bugzilla) for ConTeXt and PPCHTeX on > http://bugzilla.physik.fu-berlin.de:8080/context/ > > This location may move in the future (for instance to Hans server), all > data is saved in a separate database (besides "our" bugzilla at > http://bugzilla.physik.fu-berlin.de:8080/bugzilla/) and daily backuped. > The server is presently a Debian Woody Athlon 800 MHz with (only) 128 MB > Ram. > > Hans asked me to stress that he wants to spend more time on coding than > on managing bug reports: > > now, we need to establish a strategy, like, only serious bugs are reported, > > otherwise we end up in spending our lives doing admin work; also, with > > regards to bugs in manuals, i favor 'collected bugs', not one entry per > > type -) have you considered using Peter Miller's Aegis? Currently it seems that many of the ConTeXt users would be capable of rephrasing their bug report as a test for desired functionality. So this would open a new way to contribute: by writing tests... >From personal experience I can attest that Aegis is a great tool to steer software development... By default(!) - changes are accompanied by tests - these tests need to fail on the current version and succeed on the changed version - the changes are part of the source code of the project - a change is only added to the baseline if it passes all its tests - the result is that the baseline will always satisfy all its tests Eine schöne Zeit Marko Schütz ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-27 0:33 ` Marko Schuetz @ 2002-02-27 11:23 ` Tobias Burnus 2002-02-27 13:07 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Tobias Burnus @ 2002-02-27 11:23 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: burnus, ntg-context Hi, Marko Schuetz <MarkoSchuetz@web.de> wrote: > have you considered using Peter Miller's Aegis? Currently it seems > that many of the ConTeXt users would be capable of rephrasing their > bug report as a test for desired functionality. So this would open a > new way to contribute: by writing tests... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Aegis is more a CVS replacement than a bug tracking system. (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) While I think a move to a CVS like (or based) system would be great, I think this independend of bugreports/feature request tracking. Additionally in order to make it work, we would require that Hans switches to such a system > >From personal experience I can attest that Aegis is a great tool to > steer software development... A revision based system wouldn't be bad, that's true. The problem is that Hans version needs to be available in this system and frequently be updated. Otherwise it doesn't make that much a sense. Does someone know where the strength of these RCS lay? - CVS (http://www.cvshome.org/) - Subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/) - arch (http://www.regexps.com/#arch) - aegis (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) With warm regards, Tobias ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-27 11:23 ` Tobias Burnus @ 2002-02-27 13:07 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz 2002-02-27 20:46 ` Hans Hagen 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Daniel Pittman @ 2002-02-27 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Tobias Burnus wrote: > Marko Schuetz <MarkoSchuetz@web.de> wrote: [...] >> >From personal experience I can attest that Aegis is a great tool to >> steer software development... > A revision based system wouldn't be bad, that's true. The problem is > that Hans version needs to be available in this system and frequently > be updated. Otherwise it doesn't make that much a sense. > > Does someone know where the strength of these RCS lay? > - CVS (http://www.cvshome.org/) This is widely used in public projects and, as such, it's easy to find experts. >From experience, it scales to very large projects poorly but, in this context, that's hardly relevant. (no pun intended) It's inability to cope with file moves is a real pain and it's per-file version management makes it difficult to ensure the success or failure of individual actions, especially as the system gets more disributed. It's also insecure, requiring babysitting to ensure sanctity of access at all and, unless SSH remote access used, it's almost impossible to secure well. > - Subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/) This is slated as a replacement for CVS. It's apparently self hosting but appears to have gotten bogged down in the rush to incorporate XML, WEBDAV, SOAP, .NET or whatever else the buzzword of the week is this week.[1] It's features as a revision control system are, with minor exceptions, identical to CVS. It's far less broadly used and employs vastly more complex technologies, making it a much higher risk target than CVS, in terms of security. > - arch (http://www.regexps.com/#arch) This is very new and claims a lot. It's not well documented nor well matured. It seems to cope reasonably well with file renaming and atomic actions, at least according to it's paperwork and it's author. It's security is questionable, given that a number of exploitable errors were found in the FTP client implementation built into it. It requires a large number of non-standard libraries, totaling around 30,000 to 50,000 lines of C code, regardless of it's advertised 3,000 line count. It's ability to support large scale development has been questioned by a number of people who /do/ make competent source management systems[2]. My personal observations on the system and it's techniques supported most of their claims though I have had next to no practical exposure to the system. > - aegis (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) Unless I am very much mistaken this is a development process tool that works with your choice of revision control system and imposes additional process on it. Last I checked it talked about RCS, CVS and SCCS, but may support more. This may be a solution to problems of greater scope than revision control, which may actually be the problem you are trying to address here, but it's not, in and of itself, a revision control system. It also implies a lot more formal process than most open source development efforts use which, if you are trying to make the development of ConTeXt, would most likely impede your aim. Of these, CVS is the only tool I would consider using for any sort of distributed or open source development. It's not particularly secure but it's better than the competition. Of those you didn't, BitMover looks interesting but is not free in most senses of the word. PRCS also seems interesting but I have never gotten quite motivated enough to do much about it. It's author has plans for a network protocol but, as of my last check, this had not eventuated. Subversion and arch are *NOT* mature enough that it would be fun to try and use them for a real project, I would suggest. ...and I thought that the research at my last job would never come in handy again. :) Daniel Footnotes: [1] I don't actually know that .NET or SOAP have been added yet but it's not a bad bet to make... [2] The chap who produced PRCS and X-Delta, who's name I cannot bring to mind[3], and Larry McVoy, of BitMover fame. [3] If you care enough I can dig it up. :) -- Documentation is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing. -- Dick Brandon ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-27 13:07 ` Daniel Pittman @ 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz 2002-02-27 20:46 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Marko Schuetz @ 2002-02-27 14:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context From: Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:07:05 +1100 > On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Tobias Burnus wrote: > > Marko Schuetz <MarkoSchuetz@web.de> wrote: > [..] > > - aegis (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) > > Unless I am very much mistaken this is a development process tool that > works with your choice of revision control system and imposes additional > process on it. I'd say it _supports_ additional process, since this is configurable. You could e.g. set your project's default to not require tests, give all the people on the project all the roles so that everyone may develop, review and integrate even their own work etc. In essence you can disable or customize the additional process that aegis offers. > Last I checked it talked about RCS, CVS and SCCS, but may support more. RCS or fhist are enough. Aegis' history management is configurable: you configure which command is used to obtain a particular version of a file, or to add a new "top-most" revision etc. > This may be a solution to problems of greater scope than revision > control, which may actually be the problem you are trying to address > here, but it's not, in and of itself, a revision control system. > > It also implies a lot more formal process than most open source > development efforts use which, if you are trying to make the development > of ConTeXt, would most likely impede your aim. Hmm? Did you leave out some word here? I do not get what exact aim you mean, and how it would impede this aim. Cheers, Marko ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-27 13:07 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz @ 2002-02-27 20:46 ` Hans Hagen 2002-02-28 10:57 ` Berend de Boer 2002-02-28 12:28 ` Daniel Pittman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-02-27 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context At 12:07 AM 2/28/2002 +1100, Daniel Pittman wrote: Thanks for the explanation! > > - aegis (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) > >Unless I am very much mistaken this is a development process tool that >works with your choice of revision control system and imposes additional >process on it. > >Last I checked it talked about RCS, CVS and SCCS, but may support more. > >This may be a solution to problems of greater scope than revision >control, which may actually be the problem you are trying to address >here, but it's not, in and of itself, a revision control system. Does anyone know perforce (commercial)? TeX live is done with it. Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- fall-back web server: www.pragma-pod.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-27 20:46 ` Hans Hagen @ 2002-02-28 10:57 ` Berend de Boer 2002-02-28 12:28 ` Daniel Pittman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Berend de Boer @ 2002-02-28 10:57 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Daniel Pittman, ntg-context Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes: > Does anyone know perforce (commercial)? TeX live is done with it. I'm using it extensively. Its great, its easy, its fast. -- Groetjes, Berend. (-: ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-27 20:46 ` Hans Hagen 2002-02-28 10:57 ` Berend de Boer @ 2002-02-28 12:28 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-02-28 16:48 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Daniel Pittman @ 2002-02-28 12:28 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Hans Hagen wrote: > At 12:07 AM 2/28/2002 +1100, Daniel Pittman wrote: > > Thanks for the explanation! Is the case of aegis, take it with a bit of a grain of salt. A couple of people have pointed out to me that I might be less aware of it's features than I thought. It's also the one I know the least about so your millage may vary. >> > - aegis (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) >> >>Unless I am very much mistaken this is a development process tool that >>works with your choice of revision control system and imposes >>additional process on it. >> >>Last I checked it talked about RCS, CVS and SCCS, but may support >>more. >> >>This may be a solution to problems of greater scope than revision >>control, which may actually be the problem you are trying to address >>here, but it's not, in and of itself, a revision control system. > > Does anyone know perforce (commercial)? TeX live is done with it. I have heard good things about it but only very indirectly. It's commercial nature made it hard to verify experimentally as we didn't manage to secure a test license in the period I was looking. Daniel -- A cathedral, a wave of a storm, a dancer's leap, never turn out to be as high as we had hoped. -- Marcel Proust ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-28 12:28 ` Daniel Pittman @ 2002-02-28 16:48 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-02-28 16:48 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ntg-context At 11:28 PM 2/28/2002 +1100, Daniel Pittman wrote >I have heard good things about it but only very indirectly. It's >commercial nature made it hard to verify experimentally as we didn't >manage to secure a test license in the period I was looking. it is free for open source projects; also, we could probably use the tex live repository since that runs on perforce. Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- fall-back web server: www.pragma-pod.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] 2002-02-27 11:23 ` Tobias Burnus 2002-02-27 13:07 ` Daniel Pittman @ 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Marko Schuetz @ 2002-02-27 14:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: MarkoSchuetz, burnus, ntg-context From: Tobias Burnus <tobias.burnus@physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:23:20 +0100 (CET) > Hi, > > Marko Schuetz <MarkoSchuetz@web.de> wrote: > > have you considered using Peter Miller's Aegis? Currently it seems > > that many of the ConTeXt users would be capable of rephrasing their > > bug report as a test for desired functionality. So this would open a > > new way to contribute: by writing tests... > Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Aegis is more a CVS replacement > than a bug tracking system. (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) You are right: it is not a bug tracking system, it's quite different from CVS though. While it does provide a repository, it provides features on top of that: - functionality is specified by the collection of tests in the project - the baseline is sure to pass all the tests - changes aren't merely textual modifications of files, they are collections of files together with tests that witness the change in functionality - by default aegis uses three roles: developer, reviewer and integrator, requiring (again by default) that after a developer finishes development on a change another pair of eyes review the change and in particular verify that sensible tests are provided. Then the third role, the integrator, is the only role allowed to integrate the change into the basline. The whole process and project setup is highly configurable. > While I think a move to a CVS like (or based) system would be great, I > think this independend of bugreports/feature request tracking. I agree... > Additionally in order to make it work, we would require that Hans switches > to such a system > > > >From personal experience I can attest that Aegis is a great tool to > > steer software development... > A revision based system wouldn't be bad, that's true. The problem is that > Hans version needs to be available in this system and frequently be > updated. Otherwise it doesn't make that much a sense. > > Does someone know where the strength of these RCS lay? > - CVS (http://www.cvshome.org/) > - Subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/) > - arch (http://www.regexps.com/#arch) > - aegis (http://aegis.sourceforge.net/) I used CVS extensively before I started using Aegis. I use Aegis for software development and CVS remains in use for changes that aren't changes in functionality. As far as I know these two are the more mature of the lot. The others I only know from their project announcements. Best regards, Marko ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-02-28 16:48 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2002-02-26 12:50 [Fwd: Bug tracking system for ConTeXt] Tobias Burnus 2002-02-27 0:33 ` Marko Schuetz 2002-02-27 11:23 ` Tobias Burnus 2002-02-27 13:07 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz 2002-02-27 20:46 ` Hans Hagen 2002-02-28 10:57 ` Berend de Boer 2002-02-28 12:28 ` Daniel Pittman 2002-02-28 16:48 ` Hans Hagen 2002-02-27 14:24 ` Marko Schuetz
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).