Goodbye for now

Goodbye for now

[John Culleton]

First I want to say a big ``thank you'' to all in the
group who attempted to help me grasp the features of Context.
Hans Hagen of course, ever patient with a not-too-bright
newcomer, deserves special thanks.

Context is undoubtedly the best TeX based typesetting
system yet. It has a hundred or more hugely useful features.
And it works. But the font selection scheme is simply too
complex for this old man. I can see myself writing and
debugging dozens
of special scripts just to utilize the 39 standard 
Adobe fonts I can use today with just a simple \font
statement. For straight text I can cheat and use a \font
statement. But the fonts used in special commmands are
an impenetrable mystery. And it is the special commands
like the table of contents macros, the text in the
margin feature, the asymmetric column layout and so
on that make Contex better than LaTeX, eplain and 
everything else. 

A part of the dificulty is the unwillingness to use
what is available, those ugly old 8x2 Berry font files.
So we get lost in an endless chain of synonyms pointing
to other synonyms. 

So thanks again to one and all. Context is beyond my
grasp at this moment. If and when there is a major 
simplification to the font selection scheme I may be
back. But I can't live with cmr10 as my only useful choice.

Best,

John Culleton

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Re: Goodbye for now

[Hans Hagen]

At 06:40 PM 3/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Context is undoubtedly the best TeX based typesetting
>system yet. It has a hundred or more hugely useful features.
>And it works. But the font selection scheme is simply too
>complex for this old man. I can see myself writing and
>debugging dozens
>of special scripts just to utilize the 39 standard
>Adobe fonts I can use today with just a simple \font

You can apprach fonts in two ways:

make files with lots of:

\definefont
   [10pt,12pt,14pt]
   [rm]
   [tf=fontname sa 1,
    bf=boldfontname sa 1,
    ...]

that way you can use berry names,

the other way is by means of typescripts and name mapping, which was 
introduced because i wanted to be able to install fonts an a few minutes, 
which is why there is texfont. You loose berry naming then.

it should be no problem to provide presets for the 39 standard adobe fonts, 
actually, the free fonts on tex live *are* supported, so

\usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]

\setupbodyfont[palatino,12pt]

the associated files are generated with

texfont type-tmf.dat --en=texnansi

(in type-tmf.dat you can see the real calls)

Now, i admit that the system is complicated, but the advantage is that it 
permits

(1) mixed usage of combinations of fonts (which happens a lot in publishing 
today)
(2) relative scaling of fonts within a typeface

in due time i can provide lots of default scripts, but only for fonts that 
i've bought or can test;

anyway, keep texing with whatever system suits yor needs,

Hans

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                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: Goodbye for now

[John Culleton]

On Thursday 28 March 2002 02:46, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> You can apprach fonts in two ways:
>
> make files with lots of:
>
> \definefont
>    [10pt,12pt,14pt]
>    [rm]
>    [tf=fontname sa 1,
>     bf=boldfontname sa 1,
>     ...]
>
> that way you can use berry names,
>
One more question:

If I want to use e.g., font a for the body, font b for the chapter
and section heads and font c for the table of contents (use Bookman
Helvetica and Palatino for illustration) how do I arrange that?
The font scheme seems to be based on using one font throughout.
Does this require special scripting?

Thanks, 

John Culleton

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Re: Goodbye for now

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:09 AM 3/28/2002 -0500, John Culleton wrote:
>On Thursday 28 March 2002 02:46, Hans Hagen wrote:
> >> You can apprach fonts in two ways:
> >
> > make files with lots of:
> >
> > \definefont
> >    [10pt,12pt,14pt]
> >    [rm]
> >    [tf=fontname sa 1,
> >     bf=boldfontname sa 1,
> >     ...]
> >
> > that way you can use berry names,
> >
>One more question:
>
>If I want to use e.g., font a for the body, font b for the chapter
>and section heads and font c for the table of contents (use Bookman
>Helvetica and Palatino for illustration) how do I arrange that?
>The font scheme seems to be based on using one font throughout.
>Does this require special scripting?

no,

\setupbodyfont
   [10pt][rm]
   [tf=cmr10 at 10pt,
    tfa=cmss10 at 20pt]

is legal. However, if you want to support more complex font situations, you 
can also define several typefaces at difference sizes, and mix those; 
another option is:

\definefont{MyBigChapFont][..... at ...] % latest beta also supports an 
addition argument: [line=..pt]

\setuphead[chapter][style=MyBigChapFont]

This is what we often do when special fonts are used for heads, pagenumbers 
etc.

Hans

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                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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Re: Goodbye for now

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am Donnerstag, 28. März 2002 17:09 schrieb John Culleton:
> If I want to use e.g., font a for the body, font b for the chapter
> and section heads and font c for the table of contents (use Bookman
> Helvetica and Palatino for illustration) how do I arrange that?

Normally you use the setup commands for such, like:

\setuphead[chapter][style={\ss\bfc}]

You can use the style option in most setup commands.
Just look at some sources (e.g. mine, see fiee link).

Greetlings from the Hraban!
---
http://www.angerweit.de
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
---

Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Magnus Lie Hetland]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>
[snip]
> the other way is by means of typescripts and name mapping, which was 
> introduced because i wanted to be able to install fonts an a few minutes, 
> which is why there is texfont. You loose berry naming then.
> 
> it should be no problem to provide presets for the 39 standard adobe fonts, 
> actually, the free fonts on tex live *are* supported, so
> 
> \usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[palatino,12pt]
> 
> the associated files are generated with
> 
> texfont type-tmf.dat --en=texnansi
> 
> (in type-tmf.dat you can see the real calls)
[snip]

Hm. I may be misunderstanding here... When trying to execute

  texfont type-tmf.dat --en=texnansi

nothing seems to happen. When I try to tex(exec) a file with the
\usetypescript and \setupbodyfont commands above, I get an error
message about not finding the tfm font...

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org

Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Hans Hagen]

At 01:31 AM 4/3/2002 +0200, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
> >
>[snip]
> > the other way is by means of typescripts and name mapping, which was
> > introduced because i wanted to be able to install fonts an a few minutes,
> > which is why there is texfont. You loose berry naming then.
> >
> > it should be no problem to provide presets for the 39 standard adobe 
> fonts,
> > actually, the free fonts on tex live *are* supported, so
> >
> > \usetypescript[palatino][texnansi]
> >
> > \setupbodyfont[palatino,12pt]
> >
> > the associated files are generated with
> >
> > texfont type-tmf.dat --en=texnansi
> >
> > (in type-tmf.dat you can see the real calls)
>[snip]
>
>Hm. I may be misunderstanding here... When trying to execute
>
>   texfont type-tmf.dat --en=texnansi
>
>nothing seems to happen. When I try to tex(exec) a file with the
>\usetypescript and \setupbodyfont commands above, I get an error
>message about not finding the tfm font...

is the dat file somewhere on your path: texmf*/context/data ?

hans

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                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Magnus Lie Hetland]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
[snip]
> >[snip]
> >
> >Hm. I may be misunderstanding here... When trying to execute
> >
> >   texfont type-tmf.dat --en=texnansi
> >
> >nothing seems to happen. When I try to tex(exec) a file with the
> >\usetypescript and \setupbodyfont commands above, I get an error
> >message about not finding the tfm font...
> 
> is the dat file somewhere on your path: texmf*/context/data ?
> 
> hans

Yeah -- I even tried to copy it to the current directory.

But I'll read Bill's tutorial material and see what I can find out...

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org

Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Magnus Lie Hetland]

Magnus Lie Hetland <magnus@hetland.org>:
>
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
[snip]
> > >
> > >Hm. I may be misunderstanding here... When trying to execute
> > >
> > >   texfont type-tmf.dat --en=texnansi
> > >
> > >nothing seems to happen. When I try to tex(exec) a file with the
> > >\usetypescript and \setupbodyfont commands above, I get an error
> > >message about not finding the tfm font...
> > 
> > is the dat file somewhere on your path: texmf*/context/data ?
> > 
> > hans
> 
> Yeah -- I even tried to copy it to the current directory.
> 
> But I'll read Bill's tutorial material and see what I can find out...

I've looked at Bill's tutorial and at "Fonts in ConTeXt", but I'm
still not able to make things work properly... Simple stuff like

  \definefontsynonym[Palatino-Roman][uplr8t][encoding=ec]
  \definefont[MyPalatino][Palatino-Roman]

works just fine (so it finds the fonts). However, I can't seem to get
beyond that...

Either nothing happens (if I use \definebodyfont with a synonym like
the above) or mktextfm results in an error message (Font
\*12ptrmtf*=Times-Roman at 12.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file not
found.). When trying to use typescripts (as described in Bill's
tutorial) I get the error "Undefined control sequence". I'm not sure
exactly what is wrong (because it prints out quite a lot), but the
last line is

l.37 \stoptypescript

which ought to be a defined control sequence -- or?

(I'm not sure whether using texfont is required for any of this -- it
didn't seem so to me; and, as you saw earlier, I'm unable to make that
work either.)

Is this a path problem of some sort? Or am I just missing something
in my code?

Thanks for any help...

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org

Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Magnus Lie Hetland]

In a standard install of TeXLive/fpTeX, is the following supposed to
work without running texfont or anything?

----- begin test.tex -----
\usetypescript[palatino][ec]
\switchtobodyfont[palatino,11pt]
\starttext
This is a test
\stoptext
------ end test.tex ------

When I run this, I get complaints that it doesn't find the TFM font
(for *palatino12ptrmtf*=ec-uplr8a)

Now, I don't have anything called uplr8a.tfm, but I do have
uplr8c.tfm, uplr8r.tfm and uplr8t.tfm... (in
c:\TeXLive\texmf\fonts\tfm\urw\palatino).

I'm just uncertain about whether I'me having more installation
trouble, or whether I'm just doing things wrong...

- Magnus (who managed to use fonts the basic way, and -- for the first
  time -- got both Times and Palatino in the same TeX document... Not
  very useful (and quite ugly), but cool nonetheless; go ConTeXt! ;)

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org

Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Hans Hagen]

At 04:42 AM 4/5/2002 +0200, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>In a standard install of TeXLive/fpTeX, is the following supposed to
>work without running texfont or anything?
>
>----- begin test.tex -----
>\usetypescript[palatino][ec]
>\switchtobodyfont[palatino,11pt]
>\starttext
>This is a test
>\stoptext
>------ end test.tex ------
>
>When I run this, I get complaints that it doesn't find the TFM font
>(for *palatino12ptrmtf*=ec-uplr8a)
>
>Now, I don't have anything called uplr8a.tfm, but I do have
>uplr8c.tfm, uplr8r.tfm and uplr8t.tfm... (in
>c:\TeXLive\texmf\fonts\tfm\urw\palatino).
>
>I'm just uncertain about whether I'me having more installation
>trouble, or whether I'm just doing things wrong...
>
>- Magnus (who managed to use fonts the basic way, and -- for the first
>   time -- got both Times and Palatino in the same TeX document... Not
>   very useful (and quite ugly), but cool nonetheless; go ConTeXt! ;)

since there is both times and palatinbo math (tx/px) you can even mix both 
math fonts since they get their own namespace

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:48 PM 4/4/2002 +0200, you wrote:

>the above) or mktextfm results in an error message (Font
>\*12ptrmtf*=Times-Roman at 12.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file not

a message like this means that there is no \definition that maps 
Times-Roman onto a real name (or chain that ends with  a real name)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-ade.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Magnus Lie Hetland]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>
> At 11:48 PM 4/4/2002 +0200, you wrote:
> 
> >the above) or mktextfm results in an error message (Font
> >\*12ptrmtf*=Times-Roman at 12.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file not
> 
> a message like this means that there is no \definition that maps 
> Times-Roman onto a real name (or chain that ends with  a real name)

Hm.

I have now tried to avoid defining anything myself (which I don't
really need at the moment anyway) but I'm trying to get some of the
default typescripts to work (particularly times and palatino).

>From what I can tell, the default typescript files (including
type-exa.tex) are searched automatically when I call \usetypescript --
is that correct? In that case, shouldn't the following work?

-- test.tex --------------------------
\usetypescript[palatino]
\setupbodyfont[palatino]

\starttext
This is a test
\stoptext
--------------------------------------

I try to compile this with "texexec -pdf test" and I get no errors,
but the resulting PDF file still uses Computer Modern... What is
missing/wrong?

> Hans

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org

Re: Font use (was Re: Goodbye for now)

[Magnus Lie Hetland]

Magnus Lie Hetland <magnus@hetland.org>:
[snip]

I tried the simple example in the font manual too (in the "Predefined
typefaces" section) but that didn't work either... It seems that the
type-map file looks for some .map files that don't exist...

<sigh>

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org