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* ConTeXt and critical editions
@ 2002-03-15 21:01 Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-15 21:35 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
  2002-03-17 12:11 ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2002-03-15 21:01 UTC (permalink / raw)


Dear ConTeXtnicians,

I would like suggestions about the following:

For my work, I use EDMAC, a very powerful critical edition Plain macro package with which u r probably familiar. Right naw I am using it with NFSS support. This is done through a LaTeX package 
that calls just those parts of the LaTeX kernel needed 4 NFSS (After using NFSS, I could never go back to PlainFSS). As soon as EDMAC is invoked, only Plain commands r allowed and the EDMAC 
output routine is called instead of LaTeX's.

The upstart of all this is that I cannot use most LaTeX commands in an EDMAC NFSS- document (it's really shoot-and-miss) and I lose any Plain commands that LaTeX has redefined (I usually copy 
the ones I need from plain.tex though). So in my work I'm stuck using two dialects of TeX. For some time I have been interested in porting EDMAC to LaTeX. Given the emphasis of ConTeXt on 
layout issues I think it would make a lot of sense sense to port EDMAC to ConTeXt in a way consistent with the latter. For example, EDMAC's crop mark mechanism would not need to be ported, 
assuming ConTeXt already supports such a feature. Fortunately, EDMAC is very well documented so there is good foundation on which to begin. And EDMAC's output routine is not that complicated. 

The 4TeX manual (please freely release part IV!) says "CONTE XT is fully compatible with PlainTEX". Is this meant that ConTeXt is compatible with Plain TeX ways that LaTeX (which redefines or 
obliterates some PlainTeX) commands is not? Is the ConTeXt output routine more easily accessed/modified? Will it be easier to port EDMAC to ConTeXt than to LaTeX (which I have wanted to do 4 
some time) or vice versa?

Ultimately I would like to be able to accomplish as much as possible in a single TeX format. That would be heaven compared to the purgatory within which I am working now. And advanced critical 
edition layout capabilities would be a real boost to ConTeXt (or LaTeX 4 that matter).

What r your thoughts or suggestions?

Best wishes
Idris

P.S. Did I mention that part IV of the 4TeX manual should be _freely_ rereleasd? It's an excellent intro to Plain, LaTeX, and ConTeXt and deserves a greater audience, placement on CTAN, TeXLive, 
tug.org....


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-15 21:01 ConTeXt and critical editions Idris Samawi Hamid
@ 2002-03-15 21:35 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
  2002-03-17 12:11 ` Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Giuseppe Bilotta @ 2002-03-15 21:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

Friday, March 15, 2002 Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

ISH> The 4TeX manual (please freely release part IV!) says
ISH> "CONTEXT is fully compatible with PlainTEX". Is this meant
ISH> that ConTeXt is compatible with Plain TeX ways that LaTeX
ISH> (which redefines or obliterates some PlainTeX) commands is
ISH> not? Is the ConTeXt output routine more easily
ISH> accessed/modified? Will it be easier to port EDMAC to ConTeXt
ISH> than to LaTeX (which I have wanted to do 4 some time) or vice
ISH> versa?

That comment is rather outdated, IMO. ConTeXt is today much less
plain TeX compatible than in its early days, except maybe for math
stuff (and even there it's undergoing thorough changes). This is
especially true for font management (typescripts are the ConTeXt
counterpart of the NFSS) and, I suspect, for the OTR.

--
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-15 21:01 ConTeXt and critical editions Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-15 21:35 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
@ 2002-03-17 12:11 ` Hans Hagen
  2002-03-18 17:11   ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-03-17 12:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

At 02:01 PM 3/15/2002 -0700, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

>The 4TeX manual (please freely release part IV!) says "CONTE XT is fully 
>compatible with PlainTEX". Is this meant that ConTeXt is compatible with 
>Plain TeX ways that LaTeX (which redefines or
>obliterates some PlainTeX) commands is not?

You can devide plain tex in several parts:

(1) housekeeping

normally not needed by users, but the \new... commands are there (although 
they adapt to tex/etex)

(2) math

plain math is supposed to work as expected

(3) fonts

context has its own font system, but \rm \bf etc are supposed to work

(4) otr

context has its own otr, but it's not that hard to set up a layout that 
matches plains dimensions, although it's 'work inprogress' there is a more 
of less abstract otr interface where you can plug in your own otr

(5) plain sectioning, verbatim, etc

these plain commands do not make sense in a context like environment

(6) tables

should work, but context provides three alternatives methods

>Is the ConTeXt output routine more easily accessed/modified? Will it be 
>easier to port EDMAC to ConTeXt than to LaTeX (which I have wanted to do 4
>some time) or vice versa?

depends on what the spec is; what exactly does edmac provide? is there a 
more or less specification + examples?

>P.S. Did I mention that part IV of the 4TeX manual should be _freely_ 
>rereleasd? It's an excellent intro to Plain, LaTeX, and ConTeXt and 
>deserves a greater audience, placement on CTAN, TeXLive,
>tug.org....

There are some thoughts about that (more later this year)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-ade.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-17 12:11 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2002-03-18 17:11   ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-18 18:44     ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2002-03-18 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

>context has its own otr, but it's not that hard to set up a layout that 
>matches plains dimensions, although it's 'work inprogress' there is a more 
>of less abstract otr interface where you can plug in your own otr

I believe this is the most important problem for porting EDMAC

>>Is the ConTeXt output routine more easily accessed/modified? Will it be 
>>easier to port EDMAC to ConTeXt than to LaTeX (which I have wanted to do 4
>>some time) or vice versa?
>
>depends on what the spec is; what exactly does edmac provide? is there a 
>more or less specification + examples?

EDMAC is here: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/edmac/index.html
Here is a sample: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/edmac/features.pdf

EDMAC provides the following:

1. automatic stepped (e.g., every line, every 2 lines, every 5 lines) line numbering, by page or by chapter;

2. sub-lineation within the main series of line numbers;

3. variant readings or other information automatically keyed to line numbers;

4. multiple series of footnotes and endnotes; 5 are provided, though adding more is relatively easy (I've added 2 series of marginal notes as well);

5. block or columnar (2 or 3 columns) formatting of footnotes;

6. a number of useful macros and work arounds for fine tuning everything;

7. cross-referencing capabilities, crop marks and endnotes

EDMAC is implemented as follows:

1. commands for starting and ending line numbering in a section of text;

2. Next comes the machinery for writing and reading the auxiliary file for
 each section that helps us count lines, and for creating list macros
 encoding the information from that file (Section~\ref{lineation}); this
 auxiliary file will be read at the start of each section, to create
 those list macros, and a new version of the file will be started to
 collect information from the body of the section;

3. Next are commands for marking sections of
 the text for footnotes. The basic format is

\text{<lemma>}<commands>/

The \meta{lemma} argument is the lemma in the main text: "\text"
both prints this as part of the text, and makes it available to the
\meta{commands} you specify to generate notes.

4. EDMAC then implements macros
 that take each paragraph apart, attach the line numbers and insertions,
 and send the result to the vertical list. 

5. Next are  footnote commands: regular, pragraphed, and columnar

6. EDMAC has its own otr: It's really not that complicated. It adds basically two things to the Plain otr:

1. crop marks shipout
2. footnotes shipout

I think the main problem in porting EDMAC to ConTeXt or LaTeX is modifying the otr (maybe I'm wrong). Both LaTeX and ConTeXt (I think) have crop mark capabilities so that this and other minor features of EDMAC can be discarded in a 
port. 

7.  cross-referencing and endnotes macros r provided last.

The above does not do justice to EDMAC. John Lavagnino and Dominik Wujastyk have paid a lot of attention to detail.

EDMAC does not provide routine layout capabilities, so one has to do a lot of Plain TeX programming to get the rest of the critical edition in order, like any other Plain book. I think that a combination of the EDMAC with an excellent layout 
macro-format such as ConTeXt or that provided by the LaTeX memoir class (perhaps the best thing to happen to LaTeX in years) would be a phenomenal step forward in the greater goal of combining the power of TeX with ever greater 
usability. 

Unfortunately the EDMAC manual, which excellently documents the entire implementation, must be purchased from UK TUG. On the other hand, edmac.tex/doc does have the entire manual in commented form. I'll ask John and Dominik if 
they would be willing to make it available as a no-print pdf if anyone is interested in this. For anyone interested in learning advanced TeX, it's an excellent text. The motivation behind virtually all macros is given, and some of the tricker code (all 
too frequent) is explained as well. 

Thnx 4 your response.
Best wishes
Idris


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-18 17:11   ` Idris Samawi Hamid
@ 2002-03-18 18:44     ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-19 18:03       ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2002-03-18 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw)


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii", Size: 840 bytes --]

>Unfortunately the EDMAC manual, which excellently documents the entire implementation, must be purchased from UK TUG. On the other hand, edmac.tex/doc does have the entire manual in 
commented form. I'll ask John and Dominik if 
>they would be willing to make it available as a no-print pdf if anyone is interested in this.

A copy of the edmac manual without the figures can be obtained here:
http://ftp.ktug.or.kr/TeXLive6/texmf/doc/plain/edmac/edmac.dvi

It's on TeX-Live as well: \texmf\doc\plain\edmac

HOWEVER, if anyone decides to use EDMAC, please consider purchasing a copy of the proper, printed version with figures. It's only £10, and it earns a
little bit of revenue for UKTUG. They took the risk of publishing the work, so they deserve to have a chance to
recoup their costs. Let's give them our support!

Best wishes
Idris


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-18 18:44     ` Idris Samawi Hamid
@ 2002-03-19 18:03       ` Hans Hagen
  2002-03-20 16:43         ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-03-19 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

At 11:44 AM 3/18/2002 -0700, you wrote:

 > critical editions ...

So, if i got you right (looking at the one page pdf example with 
(meaningless so it took me a while to see what is going on) critics), we're 
talking about multiple footnotes and line numbers. The multiple 
footnotes  looks doable (but i need to extend the footnote module, no big 
deal and on my list since i want note classes but more a matter of careful 
editing). The combination with line numbering may be a bit trickery (maybe 
a two pass job is needed here).

\startlinenumbering
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \startlinenote [well] {oeps} test test test test test test
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \stoplinenote [well] test test test test test test
\stoplinenumbering

Since we modulate on footnotes, you will get formatting, column/par 
footnotes, backgrounds behind footnotes, etc for free.

hm, couldn't resist trying that one, seems doable (30 lines of code to get 
linenumbers and line ranges in footnotes) but of course you want an 
unlimited number of note types so for that i need to extend the footnote 
mechanism (and the footnote part of the otrs) as said.

It this all there is about critical editions, or is there more trickery 
needed? How configurable should this be?

Hans

PS. This could be real fancy in columnset -)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-ade.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-20 16:43         ` Idris Samawi Hamid
@ 2002-03-20  5:14           ` Hans Hagen
  2002-03-20 20:54             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-29 17:04             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-03-20  5:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

At 09:43 AM 3/20/2002 -0700, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

>Well, the code 4 that example is on page 81 of
>
>TeXLive\texmf\doc\plain\edmac\edmac.dvi

hm, dvips bombs on it and i have must adit that i have not configured a dvi 
viewer (for a long time); will try that again later

> >It this all there is about critical editions, or is there more trickery
> >needed? How configurable should this be?
>
>Much more trickery, I'm afraid:-)

What trickery?

>Note that the lemma of \text{} may contain further text commands. Nested notes
>will commonly be necessary: it's quite likely that we'll have an
>explanatory note for a long passage and notes on variants for
>individual words within that passage. Features for changing the line 
>number that's sent to the notes r part of Edmac as well. The \lemma{} 
>command changes the lemma that gets passed to the
>notes. Sometimes a note will continue on the next page and so page numbers 
>as well as line numbers have to be considered.

nesting is already covered, crossing pages should not be a problem either.

>A few other things to note as well; please see the bottom of p. 6 of 
>edmac.dvi to the end of chapter 2. All of the configurability features are 
>mentioned there. See also the example code in Appendix
>A od edmac.dvi.
>
>Thnx 4 taking interest! If u decide to implement EDMAC's functionality I 
>have a couple of suggestions 4 improvements as well.

well, i prefer to start from a proper list of requirements, (i may find 
some time for the multiple footnote stuff so i can then handle this 
critizing feature as well; configuring is trivial once i know what need to 
be configured);

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-ade.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-19 18:03       ` Hans Hagen
@ 2002-03-20 16:43         ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-20  5:14           ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2002-03-20 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

3/19/02 11:03:13 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>So, if i got you right (looking at the one page pdf example with 
>(meaningless so it took me a while to see what is going on) critics), 

Well, the code 4 that example is on page 81 of 

TeXLive\texmf\doc\plain\edmac\edmac.dvi

>we're 
>talking about multiple footnotes and line numbers. The multiple 
>footnotes  looks doable (but i need to extend the footnote module, no big 
>deal and on my list since i want note classes but more a matter of careful 
>editing). 

But the code for paragraphed footnates is a bit complicated. See pages 64--69 of edmac.dvi 4 all the issues involved

>The combination with line numbering may be a bit trickery (maybe 
>a two pass job is needed here).

EDMAC is a three-pass system (though u can get away with two passes most of the time)

>It this all there is about critical editions, or is there more trickery 
>needed? How configurable should this be?

Much more trickery, I'm afraid:-)

Note that the lemma of \text{} may contain further text commands. Nested notes
will commonly be necessary: it's quite likely that we'll have an
explanatory note for a long passage and notes on variants for
individual words within that passage. Features for changing the line number that's sent to the notes r part of Edmac as well. The \lemma{} command changes the lemma that gets passed to the 
notes. Sometimes a note will continue on the next page and so page numbers as well as line numbers have to be considered.

A few other things to note as well; please see the bottom of p. 6 of edmac.dvi to the end of chapter 2. All of the configurability features are mentioned there. See also the example code in Appendix 
A od edmac.dvi.

Thnx 4 taking interest! If u decide to implement EDMAC's functionality I have a couple of suggestions 4 improvements as well.

Best wishes
Idris

>PS. This could be real fancy in columnset -)

Indeed!


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-20  5:14           ` Hans Hagen
@ 2002-03-20 20:54             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-29 17:04             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2002-03-20 20:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

>>TeXLive\texmf\doc\plain\edmac\edmac.dvi
>
>hm, dvips bombs on it and i have must adit that i have not configured a dvi 
>viewer (for a long time); will try that again later

works fine here, with dvips _and_ dvipdfm:-) I am sending u the pdf privately.

>> >It this all there is about critical editions, or is there more trickery
>> >needed? How configurable should this be?
>>
>>Much more trickery, I'm afraid:-)
>
>What trickery?

just subtleties like those mentioned in the email.

>well, i prefer to start from a proper list of requirements, (i may find 
>some time for the multiple footnote stuff so i can then handle this 
>critizing feature as well; configuring is trivial once i know what need to 
>be configured);

Very well. I will give this very serious thought and write up a detailed list for you in the coming week. (I am in the middle of a grueling 12-night lecture tour right now.)  In the meantime, chapter 2 of 
edmac.pdf has a concise summary of all requirements and functionality needed; Appendix A has very good examples of configurability. I'll do a proper list next week. 

Thnx very much again.

Best wishes
Idris


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-20  5:14           ` Hans Hagen
  2002-03-20 20:54             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
@ 2002-03-29 17:04             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-03-30  0:37               ` Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2002-03-29 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

3/19/02 10:14:59 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>well, i prefer to start from a proper list of requirements, (i may find 
>some time for the multiple footnote stuff so i can then handle this 
>critizing feature as well; configuring is trivial once i know what need to 
>be configured);

I'm working on this right now. Have u had a chance to look at edmac.pdf? Do u have any questions at all? I want to avoid too much redundancy and would like to focus on 
1. anything unclear in edmac.pdf (particularly chapter 2)
2. configurability issues.

If u have read chapter 2 and that's clear, I will just focus on listing needed configurability options. Please let me know. 

==========================
Dr. Idris Samawi Hamid
Depatment of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80526


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-29 17:04             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
@ 2002-03-30  0:37               ` Hans Hagen
  2002-04-06 19:13                 ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-03-30  0:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

At 10:04 AM 3/29/2002 -0700, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
>3/19/02 10:14:59 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
> >well, i prefer to start from a proper list of requirements, (i may find
> >some time for the multiple footnote stuff so i can then handle this
> >critizing feature as well; configuring is trivial once i know what need to
> >be configured);
>
>I'm working on this right now. Have u had a chance to look at edmac.pdf? 
>Do u have any questions at all? I want to avoid too much redundancy and 
>would like to focus on
>1. anything unclear in edmac.pdf (particularly chapter 2)

many of the manual deals with issues that don't affect context; i will do 
it in a more generic way (something \definenote[yourclass])

>2. configurability issues.

that's the important thing, what do you want to achieve (what kind of control)

>If u have read chapter 2 and that's clear, I will just focus on listing 
>needed configurability options. Please let me know.

just features (btw, things like color behind note areas, and things like 
that come automatically), i'm more interested in the funny syntaxes, like:

number ] text

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-ade.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-03-30  0:37               ` Hans Hagen
@ 2002-04-06 19:13                 ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-04-07 11:38                   ` Hans Hagen
  2002-04-09 19:31                   ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2002-04-06 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

Dear folks,

Here are some configuration options/ideas/dreams for an implementation/extension of EDMAC's critical edition capabilities in ConTeXt. I hope that some readers on the list may add other options/ideas as well. I am assuming the basic 
configurability offerred by EDMAC and described in Ch. 2 of edmac.dvi is understood and/or implemented; most of what follows is an extension of that. I apologize in advance for any ignorance of ConTeXt on my part; I'm still learning it's 
philosophy so some of my comments may sound uninformed.

>>I'm working on this right now. 

This is coming a week late, sorry for the delay:-)

The following is divided into four areas: lineation, apparatus, footnotes, and marginpar-endnotes-miscellany.

=======================================
I. LINEATION

1. Consider an imaginary vertical line at the distance \linenumsep from the main body of text, the \linenumsep _line_. The line numbers are printed along this line. The area between the textblock and the \linenumsep line is the \linenumsep 
_range_.  The default and EDMAC configuration (not configurable at a high level)
 is for the line numbers to be ragged to the outside of the \linenumsep range. So if the line numbers are to the right of the textblock, the numbers will be set flush left to the imaginary line and ragged right; if they r to the left of the textblock the 
numbers will be set flush right to the imaginary line and ragged left. I propose a total of three options:

a) ragged to the _outside_ of the \linenumsep range as described above;
b) ragged to the _intside_ of the \linenumsep range (so the line numbers will be between the textblock and \linenumsep line and flush with the \linenumsep line)
c) centered to the \linenumsep line (so a line number like `123' will have the `1' inside the \linenumsep range, the `3' will be outside the \linenumsep range, and the `2' will be centered along the \linenumsep line.)

2. Sublineation in EDMAC takes a form like `3.6', where `3' is the line number and `6' is the subline number. I propose a parameter like \sublinepunctuation to make the period configurable. Some may prefer a comma or slash to a period (Arabic 
frequently uses a comma for the decimal point). This parameter should take both the desired font and the desired symbol as arguments.

=======================================
II. APPARATUS.

1. In a critical footnote,  given a footnote series in a multiple footnote layout, there is a 3-part sequence followed by the actual note: SIGN--LEMMA--SEPARATOR. I propose configuration options along the following lines:

a) SIGN. The purpose of the sign is to identify the footnote with a string of text in the textblock. In EDMAC the default configuration (not configurable at a high level) is for the sign to be the range of line/subline/page numbers matched by the 
selected text, so that if the selected text is on lines 18 through 21, the sign will be `18--21'. This should be extended to three cases of signs:

i) line/subline/page number range of selected text (already default in EDMAC);
ii) markers (like asterisk, dagger, double dagger, section, pilcrow, etc). Given a footnote series, one should be able to define a sequence of markers (as in a \count register) to serve as the sign for that footnote series. Both the desired font and 
the desired symbol should be configurable;
iii) both line/subline/page number range _and_ markers. So a note may begin with a marker, then the respective line/subline/page number range. 
The punctuation for the range indicator (en-dash, slask, or colon, etc) should be configurable, font and symbol.

b) LEMMA. The purpose of the lemma is to abbreviate or otherwise modify the selected text which is passed to the note, as explained in edmac.dvi. If no \lemma{} command is issued, EDMAC just prints the selected text from the textblock. If 
a \lemma{}-like command is issued in ConTeXt, I propose something along the following lines:

Let's divide the lemma into the following elements: # of initial words of selected text---joiner---# of final words of selected text. Given the \lemma of a footnote series, one should be able to configure these three elements, including the font and 
symbol of the joiner. The default should be first word--ellipsis--final word. That is, given a lemma command with no arguments,  what should be passed to the note is the first and last words of the selected text connected by an ellipsis.

c) SEPARATOR. The separator marks the end of information passed from the textblock and the beginning of the note proper. Both the desired font and the desired symbol for the separator should be configurable, as well as it's distance from 
the beginning of the note proper.

===========================================
III. FOOTNOTE FORMATTING

1. Although EDMAC has a fixed nunber (5) series of footnotes available at any one time, it is not hard to add more series as John and Dominic point out. Can the number of footnote series be parameterized in the underlying code so that a user 
can set the number of series needed and have these automatically generated?

2. A very useful feature would be a footnote series identifier. When a footnote series starts on a given page, an identifier should be printed symbolizing the purpose of that series, e.g., `V' for variant. So a the footnote series for variants will start 
on any given page with `V', followed by the first SIGN--LEMMA--SEPARATOR sequence in that series;

3. It is a common feature of critical editions that if, in a given footnote series, two or more selections of text begin with the same line or have the same line-number-range, then instead of repeating the line number for each text selection in the 
footnote, a \parallel sign (called \notenumsep on p. 103 of edmac.dvi) is used instead of the line number range for the second and following notes that use the same line or line-number range (take a deep breath now). Rudimentary support for 
this is illustrated on page 103 of edmac.dvi (not part of EDMAC proper!). I've used this code and it has the following bug: if you have even a single note in a footnote series where the selected text is on the same line as those of _another_ 
footnote series where \parallel is called, then \parallel will also be called on that note (\linenum gives a workaround). Anyway, this is an important feature which should be supported. Both the desired font and the desired symbol for the  
\notenumsep should be configurable, of course:-)

4. For multi-column footnotes, an \intercolumnnoteglue analogous to the \interparanoteglue (p. 13 of edmac.dvi) should be implemented. This will control the width of columns and the distance between them. An error message or warning 
when that glue is too large with a suggestion for the maximum allowable glue would be nice as well (``\interparanoteglue (.4\hsize) too large. Should be .3275\hsize or smaller'').

5. The minimum allowed vskip between the last baseline in the textblock and the footnote rule should be configurable (Arabic needs larger values than Latin, for example). The inter-footer vskip between footnote series should be configurable 
as well;

6. The footnoterule itself should be configurable, both symbol and font. In fact, there should be two footnote rules:
a) textblock to first footer rule;
b) inter-footer rule;

7. Some mechanism for modifying the actual formatting of the footnotes should be provided. I am new to the ConTeXt philosophy so I'm not sure what advice to give here. Will the format macros be easliy accessible/readable to the user so he 
can redefine them as needed (EDMAC's macros are good in this respect)? Or will there be another mechanism? I'm talking about adding such things as hanging indents where e.g., the sign in the sign-lemma-separator sequence mentioned 
above is hung and so forth. 

8. DREAM 1.  I don't know if TeX is even capable of the following: Can we give a given footnote series line numbers and have another set of footnote series refer to the given one? Consider a critical edition of a text where one series of 
footnotes is used for a commentary on the main text. Now what if I want to add notes to that commentary keyed in to markers and/or line numbers in the margins of the commentary? Can it be done (I saw a sample from Yannis Haralambous' 
work whre he actually achieved such a feat but I think it involved post-dvi manipulation using perl)? Even if only line numbers for the footnotes can be implemented there may be some other workaround using cross-referencing to another 
regular series of footnotes to the main text.

============================================
MARGINPARS, ENDNOTES, AND MISCELLANY

1.  Implementing critical apparatus configuration (as mentioned above) in the marginal notes would be quite useful. Again, I'm ignorant of much of Context's philosophy but I would like to be able to do things like configure marginpars to always 
be on the opposite side of the page as the line numbers and/or appear e.g., on the right side in odd pages and the even side in even pages. The following three options for marginpars would be nice (and I suspect they already exist in some 
form in ConTeXt):

a) bottom line of the marginpar on same baseline as the line from which the note is called; 
b) bottom line of the marginpar on same baseline as the line from which the note is called; 
c)bottom and top lines of the marginpar equidistant to the same baseline as the line from which the note is called, with the middle line of the marginpar flush with the line from which the note is called if the number of lines is odd.

Marginal notes work really nice in an Arabic context where word stretching allows marginpars to be fully justified.

2. The ConTeXt endnote mechanism should be extended a la section 2.9 of edmac.dvi (p. 18).

3. Does ConTeXt have a \centerline command that takes crops into account? Sometimes (e.g. chapter title pages) I want to center material with respect to, not \hsize of the textblock, but the width of the entire page. I defined a 
\cropcenterline for my purposes. Is there already a mechanism for this?

4. DREAM 2. Can ConTeXt do dual-language balancing for translations, etc.?

==============================================
Well, that's it for now; I hope this is what u were looking for. Perhaps more suggestions from others on this list will follow. Please let me know if you need any clarifications, etc. 

I eagerly look forward to seeing how this all turns out. Thnx again 4 your kind and serious interest in all this!

Best wishes
Idris
==========================
Dr. Idris Samawi Hamid
Depatment of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80526


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-04-06 19:13                 ` Idris Samawi Hamid
@ 2002-04-07 11:38                   ` Hans Hagen
  2002-04-09 19:31                   ` Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-04-07 11:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

At 12:13 PM 4/6/2002 -0700, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

>The following is divided into four areas: lineation, apparatus, footnotes, 
>and marginpar-endnotes-miscellany.

ok, will print and study it.

quick glance:

 > 4. DREAM 2. Can ConTeXt do dual-language balancing for translations, etc.?

In what way? side by side? it may be there already.

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt and critical editions
  2002-04-06 19:13                 ` Idris Samawi Hamid
  2002-04-07 11:38                   ` Hans Hagen
@ 2002-04-09 19:31                   ` Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2002-04-09 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: ntg-context

At 12:13 PM 4/6/2002 -0700, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

>The following is divided into four areas: lineation, apparatus, footnotes, 
>and marginpar-endnotes-miscellany.

I'll react to this off-list

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   fall-back web server: 
www.pragma-ade.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2002-04-09 19:31 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2002-03-15 21:01 ConTeXt and critical editions Idris Samawi Hamid
2002-03-15 21:35 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2002-03-17 12:11 ` Hans Hagen
2002-03-18 17:11   ` Idris Samawi Hamid
2002-03-18 18:44     ` Idris Samawi Hamid
2002-03-19 18:03       ` Hans Hagen
2002-03-20 16:43         ` Idris Samawi Hamid
2002-03-20  5:14           ` Hans Hagen
2002-03-20 20:54             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
2002-03-29 17:04             ` Idris Samawi Hamid
2002-03-30  0:37               ` Hans Hagen
2002-04-06 19:13                 ` Idris Samawi Hamid
2002-04-07 11:38                   ` Hans Hagen
2002-04-09 19:31                   ` Hans Hagen

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