[NTG-context] Context manuals

[NTG-context] Context manuals

[John Culleton]

As Context continues to expand the number of manuals etc. needed to
keep up also continues to expand. Is it perhaps time to either
consolidate the manuals into a super manual or, more practically,
provide a command/subject index that covers all the manuals? 

I offer as an example the \useURL statement which I figured out from a
recent post. However I have no idea where it is described in a manual. 
-- 
John Culleton
Able Indexers and Typesetters, Rowse Reviews, Culleton Editorial 
Services
http://wexfordpress.com

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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am Freitag, 18. Oktober 2002 04:32 schrieb John Culleton:
> I offer as an example the \useURL statement which I figured out from a
> recent post. However I have no idea where it is described in a manual.

As far as I resume it's in no manual!
But it's one of the few subjects in my "ConTeXt cookbook" at 
http://www.ramm.ch/context/
(Hans, your link has a double "http://"!)

While nobody seems to be interested in helping to expand this FAQ database,
I'm thinking about replacing it with a CMS like PostNuke.

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Jens-Uwe Morawski]

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:48:41 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm <angerweit@gmx.net> wrote:

> Am Freitag, 18. Oktober 2002 04:32 schrieb John Culleton:
> > I offer as an example the \useURL statement which I figured out from a
> > recent post. However I have no idea where it is described in a manual.
> 
> As far as I resume it's in no manual!
> But it's one of the few subjects in my "ConTeXt cookbook" at 
> http://www.ramm.ch/context/
> (Hans, your link has a double "http://"!)
> 
> While nobody seems to be interested in helping to expand this FAQ database,
> I'm thinking about replacing it with a CMS like PostNuke.

Hmm, wonder what this is. But, hey, i'm interested in your FAQ. 
I went through my personal archive of this list and collected
about 120 interesting mails that can be seen as FAQ's. Most
of them cover problems/solutions that can't be found (yet) in
the official docu. Besides that i have to sort and write them
in FAQ-style, i've the following problems:
- i don't want to enter those many FAQs via the web-interface
- IMO a FAQ should support different topics/sections (maybe also sub... )
- the KEYWORD field should be replaced by a drop-down menu,
  since the user cannot know what key-words are available

Jens
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:44 PM 10/18/2002 +0200, Jens-Uwe Morawski wrote:

>about 120 interesting mails that can be seen as FAQ's. Most

great !

>of them cover problems/solutions that can't be found (yet) in
>the official docu. Besides that i have to sort and write them
>in FAQ-style, i've the following problems:
>- i don't want to enter those many FAQs via the web-interface

must be doable ...

Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am Freitag, 18. Oktober 2002 22:44 schrieb Jens-Uwe Morawski:
> > While nobody seems to be interested in helping to expand this FAQ
> > database, I'm thinking about replacing it with a CMS like PostNuke.
> Hmm, wonder what this is. But, hey, i'm interested in your FAQ.

Thank you for volunteering!

What a CMS is? "Content Management System", a portal frame etc.
PostNuke is based on PHPNuke, written in PHP (what I can use on "my" server).

> - i don't want to enter those many FAQs via the web-interface

I would take SQL or something other, too.

> - IMO a FAQ should support different topics/sections (maybe also sub... )

You are right, and that's the reason why I will change the actual structure.

But at a first glance I found that such a CMS (or at least PostNuke) is not 
what we need here:
-- I look for one CMS for all of my different pages, therefore it must be 
multilingual: most is only interesting in german, but this FAQ will stay 
english etc. (PN *is* multilingual, but not in the needed way)
-- It must be possible to mirror the whole system in an easy way between the 
public web server and my local (dial-up) LAN. (Unsure if the several database 
tables of PN will survive dumping, copying etc.)
-- Not only you but me too should be able to prepare entries offline (that's 
one reason for mirroring); CMS seem to be shrinked to the web interface.
-- We need a simple user management. The CMS would provide that; what I do at 
the moment is too complicated for more than a few users -- I use "htaccess" 
files, that is, users must be added in a users and a group file for access 
and additionally in the database for information like homepage that the user 
himself may change. I don't know how to write a secure user accounting 
myself.

> - the KEYWORD field should be replaced by a drop-down menu,
>   since the user cannot know what key-words are available

No, I don't think so. Some structure should/will be given fixed,
but authors should enter keywords themselves -- keywords are searched and 
should be found with an other than the visible question.

Structure/hierarchy is needed for an complete ConTeXt/PDF output, that 
shouldn't be totally chaotic...

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
-- 
Henning Hraban Ramm
Minervaweg 2
CH-8280 Kreuzlingen
Telefon +41-71-6712494
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 07:48 PM 10/20/2002 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

>No, I don't think so. Some structure should/will be given fixed,
>but authors should enter keywords themselves -- keywords are searched and
>should be found with an other than the visible question.
>
>Structure/hierarchy is needed for an complete ConTeXt/PDF output, that
>shouldn't be totally chaotic...

but .. please use a proper set of keywords (check 'm for redundancy, 
singular/plural, etc)

Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Jens-Uwe Morawski]

On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:48:36 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm <angerweit@gmx.net> wrote:

> Am Freitag, 18. Oktober 2002 22:44 schrieb Jens-Uwe Morawski:
> > > While nobody seems to be interested in helping to expand this FAQ
> > > database, I'm thinking about replacing it with a CMS like PostNuke.
> > Hmm, wonder what this is. But, hey, i'm interested in your FAQ.
 
> > - i don't want to enter those many FAQs via the web-interface 
> I would take SQL or something other, too.

hmm, i'm thinking about an XML-file:
<contextfaq>
	<author>...</author>
	<keyword>...</keyword>
	<keyword>...</keyword>
	<keyword>...</keyword>
	<keyword>...</keyword>
	<keyword>...</keyword>
	<section>...</section>
	<subsection>...</subsection>
	<question>....</question>
	<answer>
		....
	</answer>
</contextfaq>
 

> > - the KEYWORD field should be replaced by a drop-down menu,
> >   since the user cannot know what key-words are available
> 
> No, I don't think so. Some structure should/will be given fixed,
> but authors should enter keywords themselves -- keywords are searched and 
> should be found with an other than the visible question.

Uups, i mean the keyword-field in the user/reader interface. The authors
of course should be able the define new keywords.

Jens
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[NTG-context] FAQ structure (was: Context manuals)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am Montag, 21. Oktober 2002 14:00 schrieb Jens-Uwe Morawski:
> > I would take SQL or something other, too.
> hmm, i'm thinking about an XML-file:

I've nearly no experience with XML, but I'm just starting to play with Perl's 
XML modules.
If you provide your FAQs as XML I will be able to process it somehow and then 
use the same input format myself.

> <contextfaq>
> 	<author>...</author>

needs only a number or a login name as link to an user database that contains 
also email and homepage. (Or are XML databases supposed to be non-relational 
and redundand?)

> 	<keyword>...</keyword>

What about several keywords in one tag?
Or, perhaps better, bundle several <keyword>s in one <keywords>?

> 	<section>...</section>
> 	<subsection>...</subsection>

Hm, somewhat unflexible (fixed at two levels).
What do you think of "1.2.3" format with 1, 2, 3 being IDs in a structure 
list/database? (We had to define this first, of course.)

> 	<answer>
> 		....
> 	</answer>

If we are on it, we should divide the <answer> in sections like <text>, 
<texcode> and <shellcode> to enable a simple style switching.

> </contextfaq>

And a set of <contextfaq> must be surrounded by a container.
And if I understand XML right, we should use some namespace-prefix, shouldn't 
we?

> > > - the KEYWORD field should be replaced by a drop-down menu,
> > >   since the user cannot know what key-words are available
> Uups, i mean the keyword-field in the user/reader interface. The authors
> of course should be able the define new keywords.

Ok, must become some multi select box.

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
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Re: [NTG-context] FAQ structure

[Jens-Uwe Morawski]

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:15:15 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm <angerweit@gmx.net> wrote:

> Am Montag, 21. Oktober 2002 14:00 schrieb Jens-Uwe Morawski:
> > > I would take SQL or something other, too.
> > hmm, i'm thinking about an XML-file:
> 
> I've nearly no experience with XML, but I'm just starting to play with Perl's 
> XML modules.
> If you provide your FAQs as XML I will be able to process it somehow and then 
> use the same input format myself.

Currently the files are what they are: mails.

The format i let to you. Simply, make a decision and i will write
it in that format.
I was thinking about XML since we have the nice DocBook/XML
module by Simon. So we can use DocBook/XML sniplets. All
of them could then be merged to one big XML-file to generate
a PDF print-version of the FAQ.

Jens
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 02:00 PM 10/21/2002 +0200, Jens-Uwe Morawski wrote:

>hmm, i'm thinking about an XML-file:
><contextfaq>

<authors>
   <entry><fname>...</fname><sname>.../sname></entry>
</authors>

>         <author>...</author>


<keywords>
   <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
   ...
</keywords>

is better since we can then pick up and store the whole lot

>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <keyword>...</keyword>
>         <section>...</section>
>         <subsection>...</subsection>

aren't sections at a higher level here?


>         <question>....</question>
>         <answer>
>                 ....
>         </answer>
></contextfaq>

Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am Dienstag, 22. Oktober 2002 10:59 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> <authors>
>    <entry><fname>...</fname><sname>.../sname></entry>
> </authors>

No, that doesn't fit.
Perhaps <faq author="user"> is better.
I'd use your verbose tags only in a user database.

> <keywords>
>    <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
> </keywords>
> is better since we can then pick up and store the whole lot

The bundling is ok, but why should the entry use an option?
I understand the keywords only as a help for finding und see no sense in 
describing them further.

> >         <section>...</section>
> >         <subsection>...</subsection>
> aren't sections at a higher level here?

As I wrote in the other mail, I'd suggest a generic format like "2.1.3" that 
links to an other database with the titles for 2, 1, and 3.

It seems that I must first get some experience with XML before defining a 
style.
I'm thinking always in matters of relational databases, but XML files can't 
link to others, can they? I hate redundancy.

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Re: [NTG-context] Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 09:34 PM 10/22/2002 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>Am Dienstag, 22. Oktober 2002 10:59 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> > <authors>
> >    <entry><fname>...</fname><sname>.../sname></entry>
> > </authors>
>
>No, that doesn't fit.
>Perhaps <faq author="user"> is better.
>I'd use your verbose tags only in a user database.

but you want to typeset the names correctly, and also be able to sort them 
in several ways ...

> > <keywords>
> >    <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
> > </keywords>
> > is better since we can then pick up and store the whole lot
>
>The bundling is ok, but why should the entry use an option?
>I understand the keywords only as a help for finding und see no sense in
>describing them further.

unless you also want to sort 'm, typeset them, etc

xml is about reusing information !

> > >         <section>...</section>
> > >         <subsection>...</subsection>
> > aren't sections at a higher level here?
>
>As I wrote in the other mail, I'd suggest a generic format like "2.1.3" that
>links to an other database with the titles for 2, 1, and 3.
>
>It seems that I must first get some experience with XML before defining a
>style

hm, just remove backslashes, add < / > characacters and you're nearly done;

in most cases: think of what you ever would like to do with the data (15 
years from now) and then start coding, it's not so much about redudancy, 
but about adding enough structure (i.e. from the perspective of 
typesetting: hooks)

>I'm thinking always in matters of relational databases, but XML files can't
>link to others, can they? I hate redundancy.

of course they can link, just define your element/attribute as such; it's 
up to you to define that something links:

<whatever file="..." location="..."/>

it's up to the postprocessor to act upon this (go to the file/location, 
include the file, etc)

Hans
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Re: Context manuals

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2002 01:23 schrieb Hans Hagen:

[AUTHOR]
> >Perhaps <faq author="user"> is better.
> >I'd use your verbose tags only in a user database.
> but you want to typeset the names correctly, and also be able to sort them
> in several ways ...

But I get much redundancy and perhaps inconsistency if I give whole author 
information in every question.
Therefore I would only give some short name ("login") and collect the whole
information (forename, surname, email, homepage, quote...) in a separate
authors/users database.

[KEYWORDS]
> > >    <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
> >The bundling is ok, but why should the entry use an option?
> unless you also want to sort 'm, typeset them, etc
> xml is about reusing information !

Please explain, what the 'key="xyz"' is for?
I would define keywords for searching (web version) and indexing (PDF version) 
-- what does a keyword need an other description?
e.g.
<keywords>
	<entry>math</entry>
	<entry>formula</entry>
</keywords>
or perhaps
<keywords>
	<entry lang="en">math</entry>
	<entry lang="en">formula</entry>
	<entry lang="de">Mathematik</entry>
	<entry lang="de">Formel</entry>
</keywords>

(I'd like to make the FAQ multilingual, but I guess it's too much work...)

> of course they can link, just define your element/attribute as such; it's
> up to you to define that something links:
> <whatever file="..." location="..."/>

would be
<author file="authors.xml">hans</author>
<editor file="authors.xml">hraban</editor>
correct?

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
-- 
http://www.ramm.ch/context/
---

Re: Context manuals

[Hans Hagen]

At 09:15 PM 10/23/2002 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>Am Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2002 01:23 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>
>[AUTHOR]
> > >Perhaps <faq author="user"> is better.
> > >I'd use your verbose tags only in a user database.
> > but you want to typeset the names correctly, and also be able to sort them
> > in several ways ...
>
>But I get much redundancy and perhaps inconsistency if I give whole author
>information in every question.
>Therefore I would only give some short name ("login") and collect the whole
>information (forename, surname, email, homepage, quote...) in a separate
>authors/users database.

ah, i didn't get that, sounds ok to me.

>[KEYWORDS]
> > > >    <entry key="xyz">exeizet</entry>
> > >The bundling is ok, but why should the entry use an option?
> > unless you also want to sort 'm, typeset them, etc
> > xml is about reusing information !
>
>Please explain, what the 'key="xyz"' is for?

\TeX should be sorted under tex or tech, so there is a typo as well as 
sorting version

>I would define keywords for searching (web version) and indexing (PDF 
>version)
>-- what does a keyword need an other description?
>e.g.
><keywords>
>         <entry>math</entry>
>         <entry>formula</entry>
></keywords>
>or perhaps
><keywords>
>         <entry lang="en">math</entry>
>         <entry lang="en">formula</entry>
>         <entry lang="de">Mathematik</entry>
>         <entry lang="de">Formel</entry>
></keywords>
>
>(I'd like to make the FAQ multilingual, but I guess it's too much work...)

just go for english

> > of course they can link, just define your element/attribute as such; it's
> > up to you to define that something links:
> > <whatever file="..." location="..."/>
>
>would be
><author file="authors.xml">hans</author>
><editor file="authors.xml">hraban</editor>
>correct?

no, more something:

<include href="authors.xml">

<author label="hans"/>
<author label="hraban"/>

saves keystrokes too - )

Hans
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                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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