Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

Hallo!

In order to understand the appended puzzle, I am looking for documentations
about:

\definefonthandling
\startfonthandling
\usehandling

I have found the example about 'hanging punctuation', but I could'nt even
understand this
example. 
What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????

> I have tried that, but with strange results:
> 
> 
> \startfonthandling[cmrfix]
>  \definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
> \stopfonthandling
> 
> %\setupfontsynonym[Serif][handling=cmrfix]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[14pt]
> \starttext
> \mainlanguage[de]
> \startquotation
> To \TEX\ or not to \TEX. 
> \stopquotation
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> The definition of quotedblbase in line two is used without even
> activating the cmrfix font-handler. How do I use the handler properly?

Re: Re: Hanging punctuation WAS lowerleftdoubleninequote

[John Culleton]

On Saturday 08 March 2003 04:15 pm, Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini wrote:
> Hallo!
>
> In order to understand the appended puzzle, I am looking for documentations
> about:
>
> \definefonthandling
> \startfonthandling
> \usehandling
>
> I have found the example about 'hanging punctuation', but I could'nt even
> understand this
> example.
> What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????
>
>

I have been able to use optical alignment in pdfetex by reading carefully 
Han The Thanh's dissertation,  but I haven't puzzled out the Context 
implementation. Perhaps someone who has could post an example that
works for them. 

John Culleton

Re: Hanging punctuation

[Bill McClain]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1063 bytes --]

On Sun, 9 Mar 2003 09:07:32 -0500
John Culleton <john@wexfordpress.com> wrote:

> I have been able to use optical alignment in pdfetex by reading
> carefully Han The Thanh's dissertation,  but I haven't puzzled out the
> Context implementation. Perhaps someone who has could post an example
> that works for them. 

I've attached an example where I've hand-tuned the margin kerning for
Sabon. Note this is just my subjective evaluation; I adjust the
parameters from time to time and the script is always "in progress".

If anyone wants to see the resulting pdf, just mail me. It's only 29k
but I didn't want to clog the list further.

Very important: note the [hanging] typescript at the bottom of
type-sabon.tex. It won't work without that.

This is also described in the "margin kerning" section at:

    http://home.salamander.com/~wmcclain/context-help.html

-Bill
-- 
Sattre Press                            Curiosities of the Sky
http://sattre-press.com/                    by Garrett Serviss
info@sattre-press.com            http://csky.sattre-press.com/ 

[-- Attachment #2: sample.tex --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 203 bytes --]

\usetypescriptfile[type-sabon]
\usetypescript [serif] [hanging] [sabon] 
\usetypescript[Sabon]
\setupbodyfont[Sabon]
\setupalign[hanging]

\showframe

\starttext
\input tufte \input knuth \par
\stoptext

[-- Attachment #3: type-sabon.tex --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 12726 bytes --]

%
% Adobe Sabon
%
\usetypescriptfile[type-buy]
\loadmapfile[texnansi-adobe-sabon.map]

\starttypescript [serif] [sabon, sabon-oldstyle] [texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Roman]          [texnansi-sar]  [encoding=texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Bold]           [texnansi-sab]  [encoding=texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Italic]         [texnansi-sai]  [encoding=texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Bold-Italic]    [texnansi-sabi] [encoding=texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Roman-SmallCaps][texnansi-sarsc]  [encoding=texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Italic-OSF]     [texnansi-saiof]  [encoding=texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Bold-OSF]       [texnansi-sabof]  [encoding=texnansi]
  \definefontsynonym [Sabon-Bold-Italic-OSF][texnansi-sabio]  [encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [sabon] [name]
  \usetypescript[serif][fallback]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [Sabon-Roman]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [Sabon-Bold]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [Sabon-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Sabon-Bold-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]       [Sabon-Roman-SmallCaps]
  % the regular old-style figures are in the small-caps file
  \definefontsynonym [OldStyle]        [Sabon-Roman-SmallCaps]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [Sabon] 
  \definetypeface [Sabon] [rm] [serif] [sabon] [default] [encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [sabon-oldstyle] [name]
  \usetypescript[serif][fallback]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [Sabon-Roman]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [Sabon-Bold-OSF]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [Sabon-Italic-OSF]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Sabon-Bold-Italic-OSF]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]       [Sabon-Roman-SmallCaps]
  % the regular old-style figures are in the small-caps file
  \definefontsynonym [OldStyle]        [Sabon-Roman-SmallCaps]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [SabonOldStyle] 
  \definetypeface [SabonOldStyle] [rm] [serif] [sabon-oldstyle] [default] [encoding=texnansi]
\stoptypescript

\startfonthandling [sabon]

  \defineprotrudefactor ?  0  .05
  \defineprotrudefactor !  0  0
  \defineprotrudefactor '  0  .4
  \defineprotrudefactor ` .4   0
  \defineprotrudefactor ( .05  0   
  \defineprotrudefactor )  0  .05
  \defineprotrudefactor [ .05  0   
  \defineprotrudefactor ]  0  .05
  \defineprotrudefactor ,  0  .4 % comma is pretty heavy
  \defineprotrudefactor -  0  .5
  \defineprotrudefactor .  0  .5
  \defineprotrudefactor :  0  .2
  \defineprotrudefactor ;  0  .2

  \defineprotrudefactor rightupperninequote  0 .5
  \defineprotrudefactor leftupperninequote  .4  0 
  \defineprotrudefactor endash               0 .3  
  \defineprotrudefactor emdash               0 .2  

  \defineprotrudefactor hyphen               0 .5

  \defineprotrudefactor A .05 .05
  \defineprotrudefactor B  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor C  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor D  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor E  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor F  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor G  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor H  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor I  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor J  0   0   % .05 seems heavy on the left
  \defineprotrudefactor K  0  .05  
  \defineprotrudefactor L  0  .1
  \defineprotrudefactor M  .05    .05
  \defineprotrudefactor N  .05    .05
  \defineprotrudefactor O  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor P  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor Q  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor R  0  .05
  \defineprotrudefactor S  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor T .1 .1
  \defineprotrudefactor U  0    0
  \defineprotrudefactor V .1 .1
  \defineprotrudefactor W 0 0      % .05 too much?
  \defineprotrudefactor X .05 .05
  \defineprotrudefactor Y .1 .1
  \defineprotrudefactor Z  0    0
  
  \defineprotrudefactor a  .1 .05
  \defineprotrudefactor b  0  .1
  \defineprotrudefactor c  .05   .05
  \defineprotrudefactor d  .05   0
  \defineprotrudefactor e  .05  .05 
  \defineprotrudefactor f  0   -.05  % big overhang on the right
  \defineprotrudefactor g  .05   0
  \defineprotrudefactor h  0  0.05
  \defineprotrudefactor i  0   0
  \defineprotrudefactor j  0   0
  \defineprotrudefactor k  0 .12 
  \defineprotrudefactor l  0  0
  \defineprotrudefactor m  0  .05
  \defineprotrudefactor n  0  .05
  \defineprotrudefactor o  .03  .03    % .05 seems too much
  \defineprotrudefactor p  0   .1
  \defineprotrudefactor q  .1   0
  \defineprotrudefactor r  0 .1
  \defineprotrudefactor s  0 0      % .05 seems too much
  \defineprotrudefactor t  0 .05 
  \defineprotrudefactor u  0   0
  \defineprotrudefactor v .05 .05
  \defineprotrudefactor w .05 .05  
  \defineprotrudefactor x .05 .05
  \defineprotrudefactor y .05 .1   % long diagonal stroke
  \defineprotrudefactor z  0   0

%  \inheritprotrudefactor Acircumflex A 
%  \inheritprotrudefactor acircumflex a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ccircumflex C
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ccircumflex c
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ecircumflex E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ecircumflex e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Gcircumflex G
%  \inheritprotrudefactor gcircumflex g
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Hcircumflex H
%  \inheritprotrudefactor hcircumflex h
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Icircumflex I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor icircumflex i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Jcircumflex J
%  \inheritprotrudefactor jcircumflex j
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ocircumflex O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ocircumflex o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Scircumflex S
%  \inheritprotrudefactor scircumflex s
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ucircumflex U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ucircumflex u
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Wcircumflex W
%  \inheritprotrudefactor wcircumflex w
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ycircumflex Y
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ycircumflex y
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Agrave A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor agrave a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Egrave E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor egrave e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Igrave I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor igrave i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ograve O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ograve o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ugrave U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ugrave u
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ygrave Y
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ygrave y
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Atilde A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor atilde a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Itilde I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor itilde i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ntilde N
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ntilde n
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Otilde O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor otilde o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Utilde U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor utilde u
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Adiaeresis A  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor adiaeresis a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ediaeresis E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ediaeresis e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Idiaeresis I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor idiaeresis i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Odiaeresis O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor odiaeresis o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Udiaeresis U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor udiaeresis u
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ydiaeresis Y
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ydiaeresis y
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Aacute A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor aacute a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Cacute C
%  \inheritprotrudefactor cacute c
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Eacute E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor eacute e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Iacute I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor iacute i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Lacute L
%  \inheritprotrudefactor lacute l
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Nacute N
%  \inheritprotrudefactor nacute n
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Oacute O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor oacute o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Racute R
%  \inheritprotrudefactor racute r
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Sacute s
%  \inheritprotrudefactor sacute s
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Uacute U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor uacute u
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Yacute Y
%  \inheritprotrudefactor yacute y
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Zacute Z
%  \inheritprotrudefactor zacute z
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Dstroke D
%  \inheritprotrudefactor dstroke d
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Hstroke H
%  \inheritprotrudefactor hstroke h
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Tstroke T
%  \inheritprotrudefactor tstroke t
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Cdotaccent C 
%  \inheritprotrudefactor cdotaccent c
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Edotaccent E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor edotaccent e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Gdotaccent G
%  \inheritprotrudefactor gdotaccent g
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Idotaccent I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor idotaccent i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Zdotaccent Z
%  \inheritprotrudefactor zdotaccent z
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Amacron A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor amacron a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Emacron E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor emacron e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Imacron I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor imacron i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Omacron O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor omacron o 
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Umacron U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor umacron u
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ccedilla C
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ccedilla c
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Kcedilla K
%  \inheritprotrudefactor kcedilla k
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Lcedilla L
%  \inheritprotrudefactor lcedilla l
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ncedilla N
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ncedilla n
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Rcedilla R
%  \inheritprotrudefactor rcedilla r
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Scedilla S
%  \inheritprotrudefactor scedilla s
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Tcedilla T
%  \inheritprotrudefactor tcedilla t
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ohungarumlaut O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ohungarumlaut o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Uhungarumlaut U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor uhungarumlaut u
%
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Aogonek A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor aogonek a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Eogonek E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor eogonek e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Iogonek I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor iogonek i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Uogonek U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor uogonek u
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Aring A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor aring a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Uring U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor uring u
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Abreve A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor abreve a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ebreve E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ebreve e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Gbreve G
%  \inheritprotrudefactor gbreve g
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ibreve I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ibreve i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Obreve O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor obreve o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ubreve U
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ubreve u
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ccaron C
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ccaron c
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Dcaron D
%  \inheritprotrudefactor dcaron d
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ecaron E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ecaron e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Lcaron L
%  \inheritprotrudefactor lcaron l
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ncaron N
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ncaron n
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Rcaron R
%  \inheritprotrudefactor rcaron r
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Scaron S
%  \inheritprotrudefactor scaron s
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Tcaron T
%  \inheritprotrudefactor tcaron t
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ycaron Y
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ycaron y
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Zcaron Z
%  \inheritprotrudefactor zcaron z
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor AEligature E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor aeligature e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Lstroke    I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor lstroke    o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ostroke    O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ostroke    o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor OEligature O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor oeligature o
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Ssharp     S
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ssharp     s
%  \inheritprotrudefactor IJligature J
%  \inheritprotrudefactor ijligature j
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor aumlaut a
%  \inheritprotrudefactor eumlaut e
%  \inheritprotrudefactor iumlaut i
%  \inheritprotrudefactor oumlaut o
%  \inheritprotrudefactor uumlaut u
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Aumlaut A
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Eumlaut E
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Iumlaut I
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Oumlaut O
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Uumlaut U
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Lslash L 
%  \inheritprotrudefactor lslash l
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Dslash D
%  \inheritprotrudefactor dslash d 
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Oslash O 
%  \inheritprotrudefactor oslash o 
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Eszett S 
%  \inheritprotrudefactor eszett s 
%  
%  \inheritprotrudefactor Thorn P
%  \inheritprotrudefactor thorn p
%
\stopfonthandling

\starttypescript [serif] [hanging] [sabon]
  \setupfontsynonym [Serif]            [handling=sabon]
  % not handling these yet
  %\setupfontsynonym [SerifBold]        [handling=bold]
  %\setupfontsynonym [SerifSlanted]     [handling=slanted]
  %\setupfontsynonym [SerifItalic]      [handling=italic]
  %\setupfontsynonym [SerifBoldSlanted] [handling=boldslanted]
  %\setupfontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]  [handling=bolditalic]
\stoptypescript

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:15 PM 3/8/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Hallo!
>
>In order to understand the appended puzzle, I am looking for documentations
>about:
>
>\definefonthandling
>\startfonthandling
>\usehandling
>
>I have found the example about 'hanging punctuation', but I could'nt even
>understand this
>example.
>What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????

hanging punctuation is the traditional simple model of - , ; : . and ! 
hanging into the margin; pdftex goes beyond that and let's you hang any 
char into the margin, so this is why we speak of character protruding;

fonthandling in context is currently used for hanging things but can be 
used for anything font related; the alpha, def etc setups are more or less 
derived from my personal prferences, thanh's thesis etc What you use all 
depends on your taste

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:53 PM 3/10/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> > >What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????
>
>???
>
> > hanging punctuation is the traditional simple model of - , ; : . and !
> > hanging into the margin; pdftex goes beyond that and let's you hang any
> > char into the margin, so this is why we speak of character protruding;
> >
> > fonthandling in context is currently used for hanging things but can be
> > used for anything font related; the alpha, def etc setups are more or
>less
> > derived from my personal prferences, thanh's thesis etc What you use all
> > depends on your taste
>
>I have understand this, but I am still looking for docus to the
>'fonthandler'-commands, becaus I don't
>understand how this mechanism works.
>
>The  reason, why I am interesting in fonthandlers, was: To correct the
>lowerleftdoubleninequote-problem with cmr.
>To be honest, I am asking myself why this is not working out of the box,
>because cmr is TeX's standardfont.

in that case: grep the base path for guillemots since these are implemented 
by means of fonthandlers in the aer fonts; with regards to quotes, it may 
make sense to switch from cmr to aer; also, there is the latin modern 
coming, which will bring you all the quotes and chars you need [the latin 
modern family is officially launched at the next dante meeting]

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

> >What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????

???

> hanging punctuation is the traditional simple model of - , ; : . and ! 
> hanging into the margin; pdftex goes beyond that and let's you hang any 
> char into the margin, so this is why we speak of character protruding;
> 
> fonthandling in context is currently used for hanging things but can be 
> used for anything font related; the alpha, def etc setups are more or
less 
> derived from my personal prferences, thanh's thesis etc What you use all 
> depends on your taste

I have understand this, but I am still looking for docus to the
'fonthandler'-commands, becaus I don't
understand how this mechanism works. 

The  reason, why I am interesting in fonthandlers, was: To correct the
lowerleftdoubleninequote-problem with cmr.
To be honest, I am asking myself why this is not working out of the box,
because cmr is TeX's standardfont. 

Anyway, it's good to learn something about fonthandlers and so. 
So, were are the doc's?

Greetings, Wolfgang

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

Hallo Patrick!

After a short break, I would like to continue learning context.
Have you got any answer to your question?

> > another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging
> > one) for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a
> > handler to for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)
> 
> I have tried that, but with strange results:
> 
> 
> \startfonthandling[cmrfix]
>  \definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
> \stopfonthandling
> 
> %\setupfontsynonym[Serif][handling=cmrfix]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[14pt]
> \starttext
> \mainlanguage[de]
> \startquotation
> To \TEX\ or not to \TEX. 
> \stopquotation
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> The definition of quotedblbase in line two is used without even
> activating the cmrfix font-handler. How do I use the handler properly?
> 
> Patrick

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 08:09 PM 2/11/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>>>Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
>>>math mode);
>>>in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the 
>>>right glyphs!
>>
>>this is encoding dependent, the default is only a fall back; so, the 
>>solution is to have proper entries in the encoding vector; but, not all 
>>vectors have all glyphs
>
>Would I have to fix the AFM or the PFB or both?

(1) choose an encoding vector that has them
(2) make your own encoding vector, say xxx.enc, make an associated 
enco-xxx.tex, run afmtotfm with this vector and voila

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
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Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

>> Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one 
>> from math mode);
>> in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the 
>> right glyphs!
>
> this is encoding dependent, the default is only a fall back; so, the 
> solution is to have proper entries in the encoding vector; but, not 
> all vectors have all glyphs

Would I have to fix the AFM or the PFB or both?

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
-- 
www.fiee.net/texnique/
www.ramm.ch/context/

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:36 AM 2/11/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> > another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging
>one)
>
>where is it hanging?

anything you want, for instance hyphens, comma's etc [pdftex feature]

> > for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a handler
>to
> > for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)
>
>hand-* what?
>
>Sorry, I am not at all able to guess, what you will say with the above!

hanging punctuation etc is implemented via font handlers, but such handlers 
can handle other things as well, for instance escapes for missing glyphs

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

> another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging
one) 

where is it hanging?

> for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a handler
to 
> for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)

hand-* what?

Sorry, I am not at all able to guess, what you will say with the above!

Wolfgang

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:27 PM 2/10/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>>>'lowerleftdoubleninequote' in german seems to be an double
>>>lowerleftninequote,
>>>whereas 'upperrightdoublesixquote' seems to be the ligature.
>>actually 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' are two "," without any
>>kerning. You can add the kerning by:
>>\definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
>>
>>Hans: is there any way to make this default when using cmr?
>
>Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
>math mode);
>in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the right 
>glyphs!
>
>Please, Hans!

another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging one) 
for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a handler to 
for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:27 PM 2/10/2003 +0100, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>>>'lowerleftdoubleninequote' in german seems to be an double
>>>lowerleftninequote,
>>>whereas 'upperrightdoublesixquote' seems to be the ligature.
>>actually 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' are two "," without any
>>kerning. You can add the kerning by:
>>\definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
>>
>>Hans: is there any way to make this default when using cmr?
>
>Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
>math mode);
>in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the right 
>glyphs!

this is encoding dependent, the default is only a fall back; so, the 
solution is to have proper entries in the encoding vector; but, not all 
vectors have all glyphs

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

>> 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' in german seems to be an double
>> lowerleftninequote,
>> whereas 'upperrightdoublesixquote' seems to be the ligature.
> actually 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' are two "," without any
> kerning. You can add the kerning by:
> \definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
>
> Hans: is there any way to make this default when using cmr?

Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
math mode);
in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the 
right glyphs!

Please, Hans!

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
-- 
www.fiee.net/texnique/
www.ramm.ch/context/