Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

> >What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????

???

> hanging punctuation is the traditional simple model of - , ; : . and ! 
> hanging into the margin; pdftex goes beyond that and let's you hang any 
> char into the margin, so this is why we speak of character protruding;
> 
> fonthandling in context is currently used for hanging things but can be 
> used for anything font related; the alpha, def etc setups are more or
less 
> derived from my personal prferences, thanh's thesis etc What you use all 
> depends on your taste

I have understand this, but I am still looking for docus to the
'fonthandler'-commands, becaus I don't
understand how this mechanism works. 

The  reason, why I am interesting in fonthandlers, was: To correct the
lowerleftdoubleninequote-problem with cmr.
To be honest, I am asking myself why this is not working out of the box,
because cmr is TeX's standardfont. 

Anyway, it's good to learn something about fonthandlers and so. 
So, were are the doc's?

Greetings, Wolfgang

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:53 PM 3/10/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> > >What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????
>
>???
>
> > hanging punctuation is the traditional simple model of - , ; : . and !
> > hanging into the margin; pdftex goes beyond that and let's you hang any
> > char into the margin, so this is why we speak of character protruding;
> >
> > fonthandling in context is currently used for hanging things but can be
> > used for anything font related; the alpha, def etc setups are more or
>less
> > derived from my personal prferences, thanh's thesis etc What you use all
> > depends on your taste
>
>I have understand this, but I am still looking for docus to the
>'fonthandler'-commands, becaus I don't
>understand how this mechanism works.
>
>The  reason, why I am interesting in fonthandlers, was: To correct the
>lowerleftdoubleninequote-problem with cmr.
>To be honest, I am asking myself why this is not working out of the box,
>because cmr is TeX's standardfont.

in that case: grep the base path for guillemots since these are implemented 
by means of fonthandlers in the aer fonts; with regards to quotes, it may 
make sense to switch from cmr to aer; also, there is the latin modern 
coming, which will bring you all the quotes and chars you need [the latin 
modern family is officially launched at the next dante meeting]

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

Hallo!

In order to understand the appended puzzle, I am looking for documentations
about:

\definefonthandling
\startfonthandling
\usehandling

I have found the example about 'hanging punctuation', but I could'nt even
understand this
example. 
What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????

> I have tried that, but with strange results:
> 
> 
> \startfonthandling[cmrfix]
>  \definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
> \stopfonthandling
> 
> %\setupfontsynonym[Serif][handling=cmrfix]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[14pt]
> \starttext
> \mainlanguage[de]
> \startquotation
> To \TEX\ or not to \TEX. 
> \stopquotation
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> The definition of quotedblbase in line two is used without even
> activating the cmrfix font-handler. How do I use the handler properly?

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:15 PM 3/8/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Hallo!
>
>In order to understand the appended puzzle, I am looking for documentations
>about:
>
>\definefonthandling
>\startfonthandling
>\usehandling
>
>I have found the example about 'hanging punctuation', but I could'nt even
>understand this
>example.
>What ist the correlation between 'punctuation', 'alpha' and 'def'????

hanging punctuation is the traditional simple model of - , ; : . and ! 
hanging into the margin; pdftex goes beyond that and let's you hang any 
char into the margin, so this is why we speak of character protruding;

fonthandling in context is currently used for hanging things but can be 
used for anything font related; the alpha, def etc setups are more or less 
derived from my personal prferences, thanh's thesis etc What you use all 
depends on your taste

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

Hallo Patrick!

After a short break, I would like to continue learning context.
Have you got any answer to your question?

> > another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging
> > one) for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a
> > handler to for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)
> 
> I have tried that, but with strange results:
> 
> 
> \startfonthandling[cmrfix]
>  \definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
> \stopfonthandling
> 
> %\setupfontsynonym[Serif][handling=cmrfix]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[14pt]
> \starttext
> \mainlanguage[de]
> \startquotation
> To \TEX\ or not to \TEX. 
> \stopquotation
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> The definition of quotedblbase in line two is used without even
> activating the cmrfix font-handler. How do I use the handler properly?
> 
> Patrick

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini]

> another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging
one) 

where is it hanging?

> for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a handler
to 
> for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)

hand-* what?

Sorry, I am not at all able to guess, what you will say with the above!

Wolfgang

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:36 AM 2/11/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> > another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging
>one)
>
>where is it hanging?

anything you want, for instance hyphens, comma's etc [pdftex feature]

> > for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a handler
>to
> > for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)
>
>hand-* what?
>
>Sorry, I am not at all able to guess, what you will say with the above!

hanging punctuation etc is implemented via font handlers, but such handlers 
can handle other things as well, for instance escapes for missing glyphs

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Patrick Gundlach]

"Wolfgang Werners-Lucchini" <wwl@musensturm.de> writes:

Hello Wolfgang,


> 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' in german seems to be an double
> lowerleftninequote,
> whereas 'upperrightdoublesixquote' seems to be the ligature.

actually 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' are two "," without any
kerning. You can add the kerning by:

\definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}


Hans: is there any way to make this default when using cmr?

Patrick

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

>> 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' in german seems to be an double
>> lowerleftninequote,
>> whereas 'upperrightdoublesixquote' seems to be the ligature.
> actually 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' are two "," without any
> kerning. You can add the kerning by:
> \definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
>
> Hans: is there any way to make this default when using cmr?

Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
math mode);
in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the 
right glyphs!

Please, Hans!

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
-- 
www.fiee.net/texnique/
www.ramm.ch/context/

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:27 PM 2/10/2003 +0100, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>>>'lowerleftdoubleninequote' in german seems to be an double
>>>lowerleftninequote,
>>>whereas 'upperrightdoublesixquote' seems to be the ligature.
>>actually 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' are two "," without any
>>kerning. You can add the kerning by:
>>\definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
>>
>>Hans: is there any way to make this default when using cmr?
>
>Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
>math mode);
>in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the right 
>glyphs!

this is encoding dependent, the default is only a fall back; so, the 
solution is to have proper entries in the encoding vector; but, not all 
vectors have all glyphs

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

>> Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one 
>> from math mode);
>> in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the 
>> right glyphs!
>
> this is encoding dependent, the default is only a fall back; so, the 
> solution is to have proper entries in the encoding vector; but, not 
> all vectors have all glyphs

Would I have to fix the AFM or the PFB or both?

Grüßlis vom Hraban!
-- 
www.fiee.net/texnique/
www.ramm.ch/context/

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 08:09 PM 2/11/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>>>Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
>>>math mode);
>>>in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the 
>>>right glyphs!
>>
>>this is encoding dependent, the default is only a fall back; so, the 
>>solution is to have proper entries in the encoding vector; but, not all 
>>vectors have all glyphs
>
>Would I have to fix the AFM or the PFB or both?

(1) choose an encoding vector that has them
(2) make your own encoding vector, say xxx.enc, make an associated 
enco-xxx.tex, run afmtotfm with this vector and voila

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: lowerleftdoubleninequote

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:27 PM 2/10/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>>>'lowerleftdoubleninequote' in german seems to be an double
>>>lowerleftninequote,
>>>whereas 'upperrightdoublesixquote' seems to be the ligature.
>>actually 'lowerleftdoubleninequote' are two "," without any
>>kerning. You can add the kerning by:
>>\definecharacter quotedblbase     {,\kern -.1em,}
>>
>>Hans: is there any way to make this default when using cmr?
>
>Worse: With some fonts two different commas are used (I guess one from 
>math mode);
>in my opinion we shouldn't make some kerning default, but using the right 
>glyphs!
>
>Please, Hans!

another solution is to make a specific font handler (like the hanging one) 
for a class of fonts like cmr, in that case you can link such a handler to 
for instance a cmr10 font (see hand-*)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------