From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/12436 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Writing Japanese using ConTeXt Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:13:34 +0200 Sender: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.1.20030610100605.026c5190@server-1> References: <000501c32ea4$eb16a570$0a01a8c0@TIMBO> <3EE496BB.1010605@zam.att.ne.jp> <3EE496BB.1010605@zam.att.ne.jp> <000501c32ea4$eb16a570$0a01a8c0@TIMBO> <000001c32db3$f5e81750$0a01a8c0@TIMBO> <3EE496BB.1010605@zam.att.ne.jp> Reply-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1055233299 11564 80.91.224.249 (10 Jun 2003 08:21:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:21:39 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Tue Jun 10 10:21:33 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from ref.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.13] helo=ref.ntg.nl) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19PeND-0002xH-00 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:20:55 +0200 Original-Received: from ref.ntg.nl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82ED610B15; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:23:24 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from mail.solcon.nl (mail.solcon.nl [212.45.33.11]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DD610B15 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:19:19 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from server-1.pragma-net.nl (wc-58016.solcon.nl [212.45.58.16]) by mail.solcon.nl (8.12.9/SQL-8.12.9-10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5A8JGHl022478 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:19:16 +0200 Original-Received: from laptop-3.wxs.nl (laptop-3 [10.100.1.191]) by server-1.pragma-net.nl (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h5A8JI0a025582 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:19:18 +0200 X-Sender: hagen-mail@server-1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Original-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl In-Reply-To: <20030609232430.GB1464@swordfish> X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.1(snapshot 20020919) (mail.solcon.nl) Errors-To: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:12436 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.context:12436 At 17:24 09/06/2003 -0600, Matt Gushee wrote: > > Typesetting Japanese could be more complicated than Chinese because of > > the concurrent use of four writing systems: dunno, could also be a challenge; as long as tagging is done properly i see no real problem there >On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 06:33:49PM +0200, Tim 't Hart wrote: > > > > Unicode wasn't that popular because Unix-like operating systems used EUC as > > encoding, and Microsoft used their own invented Shift-JIS encoding. > >There were also cultural/political reasons, with perhaps a touch of Not >Invented Here syndrome. But that's a different story. same as in china: many encodings alongside unicode > > Since ConTeXt > > already supports UTF-8, I don't see a reason to make thinks more difficult > > than they already are by writing text in other encodings. > >On the face of it that makes sense. But I don't think it's safe to make >a blanket assumption that the text in a ConTeXt document will originate >with the creator of the document, or that it will be newly written. >Also, UTF-8 support is still a bit half-baked on Unix/Linux systems. i'm sure that wang lei (on this list) can help you out; if i'm right he is aware of japanese font demands > > I guess that if you want to make a proper Japanese module, you'll need to > > support JIS or Shift-JIS encoded fonts. > >This would be a good idea for Type 1 font support. It seems to me that >almost all recent Japanese TrueType fonts have a Unicode CMap. one of the first things to do is to collect fonts in suitable encodings and post them somewhere (or at least post scripts that generate them) >Can PDFTeX handle TTC files? I know ttf2afm/ttf2pk can process them, but >I have tried 2 or 3 times to include a Japanese TTC font directly in a >PDFTeX document, but was never able to make it work. dunno, maybe dvipdfmx can >Well, it can be done in stages. I think that any serious attempt to >support Japanese in ConTeXt should encompass all common encodings. But >I don't see anything wrong with starting out Unicode-only. in that case some range mapping should be defined; proper test files, etc > > > Typesetting Japanese could be more complicated than Chinese because of > > > the concurrent use of four writing systems > > > > The fact that Japanese uses four writing systems is not really a problem. > >Maybe it's not a big problem. But it is certainly more complex than >chinese, since there is a mixture of proportional and fixed-width >characters, and the presence of Kana and Romaji complicate the >line-breaking rules. hm, but as long as the rules are clear, things should be configurable as much as possible > > The only info I got is from Ken Lunde's CJKV book, where he mentions some > > rules about CJK line breaking. > >Yes, Lunde is good, but he doesn't go into enough detail to serve as an >implementor's guide. I've also searched for more info on this subject; right, many nice tables and glyphs -) >my impression is that besides Lunde's books there is really nothing >available in English. I could probably make some sense out of the >Japanese works that are available, but it would take up much more time >than I have. then ... write it down in a document/manual and make that the test case for context; if the manual can be processed we're done! Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------