Critical editions with ConTeXt

Critical editions with ConTeXt

[MANUEL GONZALEZ SUAREZ]

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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On 7/18/12 10:10 AM, MANUEL GONZALEZ SUAREZ wrote:
> Hey.
> First, thanks to Andreas for his solution to the bibliographies.
> Second, a question: is there a module to produce critical editions with
> ConTeXt? In critical editions usually have several groups of footnotes
> and reference is usually made by line number. With LaTeX can be done
> using "ledmac", but perhaps would have to customize the footnotes with
> ConTeXt.
> Thank you.
>
> critical editions

No, there isn't a single module to do this. Most of the functionality is 
there (search for "linenotes" in the mailing list and look at the TEI 
xml example on the wiki), but you will still have to write your own 
style/module.

Best wishes

Thomas
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Pablo Rodríguez]

On 18/07/12 12:09, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> On 7/18/12 10:10 AM, MANUEL GONZALEZ SUAREZ wrote:
>> Hey.
>> First, thanks to Andreas for his solution to the bibliographies.
>> Second, a question: is there a module to produce critical editions with
>> ConTeXt? In critical editions usually have several groups of footnotes
>> and reference is usually made by line number. With LaTeX can be done
>> using "ledmac", but perhaps would have to customize the footnotes with
>> ConTeXt.
>> Thank you.
> 
> No, there isn't a single module to do this. Most of the functionality is 
> there (search for "linenotes" in the mailing list and look at the TEI 
> xml example on the wiki), but you will still have to write your own 
> style/module.

Hi Manuel,

As Thomas replied, linenotes is your friend. TEI XML
(http://wiki.contextgarden.net/TEI_xml) shows the features of critical
edition typesetting, but you have to learn XML, TEI, ConTeXt and how
ConTeXt deals directly with XML files . This is a much better way to
work with documents, but you'll need to learn much more.

I provide here a minimal example on how ConTeXt works with linenotes:

\definelinenote[lnote]
\setuplinenote[lnote][rule=off,paragraph=yes,numbercommand=,inbetween=\qquad]
\setupdescriptions[lnote][display=yes,location=serried,distance=1em]
\starttext
\startlinenumbering
En un lugar\lnote{lugar: place} de la Mancha, de cuyo
nombre\lnote{nombre: name} no quiero\lnote{querer: want}
acordarme\lnote{acordarse: remember}.
\stoplinenumbering
\stoptext

I'm not a classical philologist, but the way ConTeXt works is much
clearer than ledmac to me (although I have only tested ledmac for a
couple of days).

But there are two features from ledmac that aren't available in ConTeXt
(or at least I don't know how to achieve them):

-ConTeXt numbers all linenotes that come from the same line and there
seems to be no way to limit number in the apparatus to only the first
linenote from that line.

-From the way linenotes are implemented, linenotes mark a point in the
body text, but not a text passage, so it seems to be impossible to refer
to a passage that is typeset in different lines (such as 2-3).

Apart from these two issues and since the other issues involved in
linenotes are known to the ones in this mailing list, it might be easier
that you start a thread at the Spanish TeX mailing list (I'm also
subscribed to that list). I'm only suggesting this, since it might be
easier for you, the topic is known to the members from this list and it
may be interesting for the members from ES-TEX (I apologize if I'm wrong).

I hope this might help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[MANUEL GONZALEZ SUAREZ]

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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

Just a few comments on this helpful mail:

On 07/19/2012 12:57 PM, MANUEL GONZALEZ SUAREZ wrote:
> I'm not a classical philologist, but the way ConTeXt works is much
> clearer than ledmac to me (although I have only tested ledmac for a
> couple of days).
>
I haven't looked at ledmac too closely, and of course I'm a huge fan of 
ConTeXt; nevertheless, we shouldn't promise too much: for the time 
being, ledmac provides a pretty good working environment which you can 
just use; ConTeXt offers a much better overall syntax and programming 
interface, but right now, it's more of a DIY experience when it comes to 
critical editions. There is no ready drop-in replacement for ledmac

> But there are two features from ledmac that aren't available in ConTeXt
> (or at least I don't know how to achieve them):
>
> -ConTeXt numbers all linenotes that come from the same line and there
> seems to be no way to limit number in the apparatus to only the first
> linenote from that line.

This is something that can be fixed, I assume. The best you could do: 
make a small example file, explain what output you expect and what you 
get, and ask Hans nicely if he can implement this. Chances are he'll 
reply "on a rainy Sunday afternoon, maybe," and you'll have to give him 
a couple of weeks and gently remind him. He (or the Wolfgang) will be 
willing and helpful, but of course time is a finite resource. So: the 
better and clearer and shorter your example, the more polite your 
request, the better your chances to see this implemented.

> -From the way linenotes are implemented, linenotes mark a point in the
> body text, but not a text passage, so it seems to be impossible to refer
> to a passage that is typeset in different lines (such as 2-3).

This may be a bit more difficult, because it involves thinking about 
proper input syntax. How do you want to mark this passage? If you can 
come up with clean and unequivocal syntax and demonstrate it in an 
example, your chances aren't too bad. However, I mean really clean 
syntax, not just a kludge to give you the output you want. Ideally, have 
a look at the TEI syntax. IMO, this is the best way to go; I don't think 
TeX is a good input format for critical editions. If you can come up 
with a good mapping TEI --> ConTeXt --> output, that would facilitate 
things.

Just my personal opinions; I'm not a spokesperson for ConTeXt in any way!

All best

Thomas
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-7-2012 17:41, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:

> This may be a bit more difficult, because it involves thinking about
> proper input syntax. How do you want to mark this passage? If you can
> come up with clean and unequivocal syntax and demonstrate it in an
> example, your chances aren't too bad. However, I mean really clean
> syntax, not just a kludge to give you the output you want. Ideally, have
> a look at the TEI syntax. IMO, this is the best way to go; I don't think
> TeX is a good input format for critical editions. If you can come up
> with a good mapping TEI --> ConTeXt --> output, that would facilitate
> things.

Actually ranges have always been supported (as we needed in the previous 
century already for referring to passages in texts where students had to 
comment on):

\definelinenote[linenote] % was commented but will be predefined

\starttext

\setuplinenumbering[distance=2em]
\setuplinenote [linenote] 
[distance=2em,rule=off,frame=on,framecolor=darkred]

\startlinenumbering
test test test \dorecurse{40}{test }.
\linenote {A simple linenote does not have a number range}
\startlinenote [one] {A linenote environment has a range that covers the
first line of an environment up to the last.}
\dorecurse{40}{test }.
\stoplinenote [one]
\linenote {A simple linenote does not have a number range}
\dorecurse{30}{test }\removeunwantedspaces.
\stoplinenumbering

\stoptext

but as you mention the interface is a bit problematic as start/stop is 
not nice when being nested:

\let\fromlinenote\startlinenote
\let\tolinenote  \stoplinenote

\startlinenumbering
test test test \dorecurse{40}{test }.
\linenote {A simple linenote does not have a number range}
\fromlinenote [two] {A linenote environment has a range that covers the
first line of an environment up to the last.}
\dorecurse{40}{test }.
\fromlinenote [three]{However, nesting can be mixed.}\dorecurse{40}{test }.
\tolinenote [two]
\dorecurse{40}{test }.
\tolinenote [three]
\linenote {A simple linenote does not have a number range}
\dorecurse{30}{test }\removeunwantedspaces.
\stoplinenumbering

\stoptext

Maybe I should add those commands.

Hans


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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On 07/20/2012 06:45 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Actually ranges have always been supported (as we needed in the previous
> century already for referring to passages in texts where students had to
> comment on):

Yes, that's something I forgot in my mail: ask on the list, and chances 
are that it has already been implemented :-)

> but as you mention the interface is a bit problematic as start/stop is
> not nice when being nested:

Yes, the syntax seems a bit illogical. But there may be no really clean 
way - maybe we can call them "anchors" or something?

All best

Thomas
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Sietse Brouwer]

I'm trying to get straight in my head what critical-edition-related
commands are already implemented in ConTeXt.

Implemented:
(a) footnotes on specific lines, specified inline: \linenote{note text}
(b) ditto on line ranges: \startlinenote[tag]{note text} ... \stoplinenote[tag]
(c) tag a line and refer to it later in text: \someline[tag]; refer
back with \inline[tag] or \inlinerange[tag] (the former has a spurious
space before the number). The low-level backreferences are
\in[lr:b:tag] and \in[lr:e:tag]; see page-lin.mkiv
(d) ditto for line ranges: \startlines[tag] ... \stoplines[tag]; refer
to these with \inlinerange[tag].

Not implemented AFAIK:
(e) tag a line, but write the linenote on it later; at the end of the
stanza or the quotation, say. Nice to keep notes from overpowering the
text in the source code.).
(f) ditto for line ranges
This would have the added advantage that you could place tags in the
text according to its contents, and then use those tags for both
footnotes and textual references.

Hans wrote:
> but as you mention the interface is a bit problematic as start/stop is not nice when being nested

Do you mean it doesn't look nice, or is it so that nesting or
interleaving \startlinenote[tag] ... \stoplinenote[tag] environments
causes problems because the commands start with \start... and
\stop...?
If looks are the only problem, I think that is a problem with
interleaving environments; no matter whether you call them
\startlinenote...\stoplinenote, or \fromlinenote...\tolinenote. And in
that case, I think consistently naming environment commands
\start...\stop... is a very valuable thing, and should get priority.

Regards,

Sietse
Sietse Brouwer
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 20.07.2012 um 19:33 schrieb Sietse Brouwer:

> Hans wrote:
>> but as you mention the interface is a bit problematic as start/stop is not nice when being nested
> 
> Do you mean it doesn't look nice, or is it so that nesting or
> interleaving \startlinenote[tag] ... \stoplinenote[tag] environments
> causes problems because the commands start with \start... and
> \stop...?
> If looks are the only problem, I think that is a problem with
> interleaving environments; no matter whether you call them
> \startlinenote...\stoplinenote, or \fromlinenote...\tolinenote. And in
> that case, I think consistently naming environment commands
> \start...\stop... is a very valuable thing, and should get priority.

Hans speaks about something like this

\startone
…
\starttwo
…
\stopone
…
\stopone

where environment ranges overlap.

Wolfgang
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Pablo Rodríguez]

On 20/07/12 17:41, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> Just a few comments on this helpful mail:

Thank you very much for your reply, Thomas.

> On 07/19/2012 12:57 PM, MANUEL GONZALEZ SUAREZ wrote:
>> I'm not a classical philologist, but the way ConTeXt works is much
>> clearer than ledmac to me (although I have only tested ledmac for a
>> couple of days).
>>
> I haven't looked at ledmac too closely, and of course I'm a huge fan of 
> ConTeXt; nevertheless, we shouldn't promise too much: for the time 
> being, ledmac provides a pretty good working environment which you can 
> just use; ConTeXt offers a much better overall syntax and programming 
> interface, but right now, it's more of a DIY experience when it comes to 
> critical editions. There is no ready drop-in replacement for ledmac

I must admit that I didn't get ledmac to do some of the documented
tricks. I haven't tried much, but some code didn't work.

>> But there are two features from ledmac that aren't available in ConTeXt
>> (or at least I don't know how to achieve them):
>>
>> -ConTeXt numbers all linenotes that come from the same line and there
>> seems to be no way to limit number in the apparatus to only the first
>> linenote from that line.
> 
> This is something that can be fixed, I assume. The best you could do: 
> make a small example file, explain what output you expect and what you 
> get, and ask Hans nicely if he can implement this. Chances are he'll 
> reply "on a rainy Sunday afternoon, maybe," and you'll have to give him 
> a couple of weeks and gently remind him. He (or the Wolfgang) will be 
> willing and helpful, but of course time is a finite resource. So: the 
> better and clearer and shorter your example, the more polite your 
> request, the better your chances to see this implemented.

My minimal example is this:

\definelinenote[lnote]
\setuplinenote[lnote][rule=off,paragraph=yes,numbercommand=,inbetween=\qquad]
\setupdescriptions[lnote][display=yes,location=serried,distance=1em]
\starttext
\startlinenumbering
This\lnote{That} is\lnote{was} imposible\lnote{possible}.
\stoplinenumbering
\stoptext

which gives as result something like:

1 This  1 was  1 impossible

And the output I would like to have is:

1 This  was  impossible

I mean, what it would be extremely useful to have is an option to avoid
that the line number and the space after (distance from
\setupdescriptions) could be disabled after the first linenote from that
same line.

>> -From the way linenotes are implemented, linenotes mark a point in the
>> body text, but not a text passage, so it seems to be impossible to refer
>> to a passage that is typeset in different lines (such as 2-3).
> 
> This may be a bit more difficult, because it involves thinking about 
> proper input syntax. How do you want to mark this passage? If you can 
> come up with clean and unequivocal syntax and demonstrate it in an 
> example, your chances aren't too bad. However, I mean really clean 
> syntax, not just a kludge to give you the output you want. Ideally, have 
> a look at the TEI syntax. IMO, this is the best way to go; I don't think 
> TeX is a good input format for critical editions. If you can come up 
> with a good mapping TEI --> ConTeXt --> output, that would facilitate 
> things.

A clear syntax might be not so easy not being a philologist at all
(classical or not). As far as I understand, ledmac syntax should be left
aside. There was a syntax proposal from Idris Hamid for this at section
4.2 http://meeting.contextgarden.net/2007/share/idris/cr-apparatus.pdf.
Isn't this syntax right?

But after just consulting the TEI Guidelines on critical apparatus, I
must admit that I would need more experience typesetting critical
editions to provide a meaningful example. Consider that even TEI has a
working group on critical apparatus to improve the TEI syntax and
possibilities.

> Just my personal opinions; I'm not a spokesperson for ConTeXt in any way!

I know these are your personal opinions.

Sorry for not being able to provide a second example and many thanks for
your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk


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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On 07/20/2012 08:01 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Hans speaks about something like this
>
> \startone
> …
> \starttwo
> …
> \stopone
> …
> \stopone
>
> where environment ranges overlap.

And to explain that a bit: it's not merely "ugly." If all you want is 
the printed book, you don't care about the ugliness and simply code this 
way to get the desired output. However, we are in the 21st century. We 
should be beyond the point where a critical edition is the printed text, 
we should think of the typeset result as just one way of representing 
the logical structure of the edition. With a syntax as the one Wolfgang 
shows above, it is difficult for most parsers to understand what is 
meant. Which means most ways of representing such a structure will fail 
because it's not a consistent logical construct. And yes, as Pablo 
pointed out, TEI itself hasn't reached a clear conclusion on such 
points, and they are specialists who have been working on these problems 
for quite a while...

Thomas

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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Hans Hagen]

On 20-7-2012 20:21, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> On 07/20/2012 08:01 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Hans speaks about something like this
>>
>> \startone
>> …
>> \starttwo
>> …
>> \stopone
>> …
>> \stopone
>>
>> where environment ranges overlap.
>
> And to explain that a bit: it's not merely "ugly." If all you want is
> the printed book, you don't care about the ugliness and simply code this
> way to get the desired output. However, we are in the 21st century. We
> should be beyond the point where a critical edition is the printed text,
> we should think of the typeset result as just one way of representing
> the logical structure of the edition. With a syntax as the one Wolfgang
> shows above, it is difficult for most parsers to understand what is
> meant. Which means most ways of representing such a structure will fail
> because it's not a consistent logical construct. And yes, as Pablo
> pointed out, TEI itself hasn't reached a clear conclusion on such
> points, and they are specialists who have been working on these problems
> for quite a while...

In xml one could do

<note tag="bla" range="yes">some text</note>  ..... <note tag="bla"/>

i.e. use an empty element to indicate a matching end.

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Pablo Rodríguez]

On 20/07/12 22:41, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 20-7-2012 20:21, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
>> [...]
>> And to explain that a bit: it's not merely "ugly." If all you want is
>> the printed book, you don't care about the ugliness and simply code this
>> way to get the desired output. However, we are in the 21st century. We
>> should be beyond the point where a critical edition is the printed text,
>> we should think of the typeset result as just one way of representing
>> the logical structure of the edition. With a syntax as the one Wolfgang
>> shows above, it is difficult for most parsers to understand what is
>> meant. Which means most ways of representing such a structure will fail
>> because it's not a consistent logical construct. And yes, as Pablo
>> pointed out, TEI itself hasn't reached a clear conclusion on such
>> points, and they are specialists who have been working on these problems
>> for quite a while...
> 
> In xml one could do
> 
> <note tag="bla" range="yes">some text</note>  ..... <note tag="bla"/>
> 
> i.e. use an empty element to indicate a matching end.

Hans,

thanks for your reply.

TEI would propose something like this for a just invented example (not
100% sure TEI encoding right, but I think it is [a cheat sheet on
critical apparatuses can be found at
http://marjorie.burghart.online.fr/?q=en/content/tei-critical-apparatus-cheatsheet]):

<p>Entia non sunt multiplicanda
<app>
  <lem>praeter necessitatem</lem>
  <rdg wit="#H">sine necessitate</lem>
</app>
</p>

Which can be typeset with ConTeXt:

\mainlanguage[la]
\definelinenote[linenote]
\starttext
\startlinenumbering
Entia non sunt multiplicanda \startlinenote[one]{praeter necessitatem]
sine necessitate H} praeter necessitatem \stoplinenote[one].
\stoplinenumbering
\stoptext

If I'm not wrong, I'm afraid there might be a bug here, since there is
no space between «multiplicanda» and «praeter» in the body.

I don't know how ConTeXt parses XML directly, but I think unless a
counter (or an unique ID) is entered, problems might arise to
distinguish between different critical annotations. (Sorry if that was
obvious.)

BTW, how about the option to only display the number from line on the
first linenote if many linenotes coming from the same line? I only want
to know whether this feature could be considered for inclusion in
ConTeXt in the future.

Many thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk


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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Pablo Rodríguez]

On 20/07/12 20:21, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> [...]
> And to explain that a bit: it's not merely "ugly." If all you want is 
> the printed book, you don't care about the ugliness and simply code this 
> way to get the desired output. However, we are in the 21st century. We 
> should be beyond the point where a critical edition is the printed text, 
> we should think of the typeset result as just one way of representing 
> the logical structure of the edition. With a syntax as the one Wolfgang 
> shows above, it is difficult for most parsers to understand what is 
> meant. Which means most ways of representing such a structure will fail 
> because it's not a consistent logical construct. And yes, as Pablo 
> pointed out, TEI itself hasn't reached a clear conclusion on such 
> points, and they are specialists who have been working on these problems 
> for quite a while...

Thomas, many thanks for your reply.

You are the real expert on this topic. I don't really know why there are
so many people from TEI working on textual variants, but my guess is
that this might be also related to the different needs each of them
might face for each kind of texts. Probably the needs to critically edit
an ancient Greek or Latin author might differ with the ones for an early
modern (or even contemporary) English or German author.

There is another issue that I would like to discuss. My question is what
changes in a critical edition with no page model. I don't mean that
critical editions need to be printed (it isn't a paper-based model), but
I'm not so sure they can be properly represented without a page model.
So, if I'm not wrong, it isn't only a question of data representation,
but it is related to the logic of the text structure itself.

Some have characterized the electronic text as infinite, in opposition
to a page-based text that by definition finite. XML is a good example of
a human-readable text, but this human-readability is relevant because of
a prior machine-readability. XML is meaningful and useful for non-coders
as source code to generate a human-understandable representation of text.

Footnotes can be displayed not using a page model, because reference is
on both the body and the note texts. A hyperlink is the right way to
link each other. So, an infinite text is not a problem. The footnote
doesn't need to be on the same page (as in a printed book), because
there is a way to go to the note and back to the text (as on the
physical book).

But linenotes are different. The reference is on the note, but not on
the body. The same line can have many linenotes. And the same word or
passage can be referenced in more than one apparatus simultaneously.
Linenotes work on a page model, because all relevant information is
given at a glance. Looking at a page, one knows which words of text
passages have relevant information on the apparatus(es). Using the model
of the infinite text, there are some issues, unless one reconstructs the
page model on a screen model (I mean, that each portion of body text
displayed in the screen has also the apparatus(es) included on that same
screen). These issues are: which words or text passages have additional
information, how to distinguish between references to different
apparatuses and how to access to each of these different apparatuses.
Maybe marking the text with different features might be a way to
distinguish them (colors, underline or a mixture of both). And enabling
contextual information is the way to workaround these issues. But I
wonder how this is really helpful in practice.

Sorry, but I'm afraid I'm a bit skeptical about this. Probably I'm
wrong, but I think it will take some time before having an ePub file
containing the electronic version of a critical edition.

Just in case it might help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk


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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

[If this is considered too off-topic for this list, please ignore this
mail. My main point has still something to do with ConTeXt, but I guess
this discussion shouldn't be continued on the list.]

On 07/22/2012 08:07 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote:
>> And to explain that a bit: it's not merely "ugly." If all you want
>> is
>>> the printed book, you don't care about the ugliness and simply
>>> code this way to get the desired output. However, we are in the
>>> 21st century. We should be beyond the point where a critical
>>> edition is the printed text, we should think of the typeset
>>> result as just one way of representing the logical structure of
>>> the edition. With a syntax as the one Wolfgang shows above, it is
>>> difficult for most parsers to understand what is meant. Which
>>> means most ways of representing such a structure will fail
>>> because it's not a consistent logical construct. And yes, as
>>> Pablo pointed out, TEI itself hasn't reached a clear conclusion
>>> on such points, and they are specialists who have been working on
>>> these problems for quite a while...
> Thomas, many thanks for your reply.
>
> You are the real expert on this topic. I don't really know why there
> are so many people from TEI working on textual variants, but my guess
> is that this might be also related to the different needs each of
> them might face for each kind of texts. Probably the needs to
> critically edit an ancient Greek or Latin author might differ with
> the ones for an early modern (or even contemporary) English or German
> author.
>
I'm not an expert at all, but I'm trying to put together a research 
project that would help us make some progress here. But your assumption 
is basically correct: there are many different philologies with 
different habits and norms, and TEI has to take that into account.

> There is another issue that I would like to discuss. My question is
> what changes in a critical edition with no page model. I don't mean
> that critical editions need to be printed (it isn't a paper-based
> model), but I'm not so sure they can be properly represented without
> a page model. So, if I'm not wrong, it isn't only a question of data
> representation, but it is related to the logic of the text structure
> itself.
>
> Some have characterized the electronic text as infinite, in
> opposition to a page-based text that by definition finite. XML is a
> good example of a human-readable text, but this human-readability is
> relevant because of a prior machine-readability. XML is meaningful
> and useful for non-coders as source code to generate a
> human-understandable representation of text.
>
> Footnotes can be displayed not using a page model, because reference
> is on both the body and the note texts. A hyperlink is the right way
> to link each other. So, an infinite text is not a problem. The
> footnote doesn't need to be on the same page (as in a printed book),
> because there is a way to go to the note and back to the text (as on
> the physical book).
>
> But linenotes are different. The reference is on the note, but not
> on the body. The same line can have many linenotes. And the same word
> or passage can be referenced in more than one apparatus
> simultaneously. Linenotes work on a page model, because all relevant
> information is given at a glance. Looking at a page, one knows which
> words of text passages have relevant information on the
> apparatus(es). Using the model of the infinite text, there are some
> issues, unless one reconstructs the page model on a screen model (I
> mean, that each portion of body text displayed in the screen has also
> the apparatus(es) included on that same screen). These issues are:
> which words or text passages have additional information, how to
> distinguish between references to different apparatuses and how to
> access to each of these different apparatuses. Maybe marking the text
> with different features might be a way to distinguish them (colors,
> underline or a mixture of both). And enabling contextual information
> is the way to workaround these issues. But I wonder how this is
> really helpful in practice.
>
> Sorry, but I'm afraid I'm a bit skeptical about this. Probably I'm
> wrong, but I think it will take some time before having an ePub file
> containing the electronic version of a critical edition.

I think you misunderstand. I'm absolutely not interested in epub. I'm
not arguing against printed output per se
(or electronic representations of printed output such as pdf). But it
has severe limitations that we need to transcend. I take as an example
the text that I'm currently re-reading, Ovid's Metamorphoses in the new
edition by R. Tarrant, published in 2004. There are more than 400
complete medieval manuscripts of this text. As things stand now, with a
printed edition, no editor can investigate all of them. No editor can
record in his apparatus the readings of all the manuscripts he has
consulted. No editor can record all the data of the secondary
transmission (quotations, allusions, translations etc.) But Tarrant has
certainly much more information available than he can include in his
edition. Some of it is published in his articles and books, some of it
is included in the private collations of manuscripts which he produced 
in order  to produce his edition. When he finishes his career and (I 
hesitate to write this since he's a friend of mine) his life, most of 
this will be lost forever.

Now I describe the way I would like to see a critical edition of Ovid's
Metamorphoses organized: there is a single huge database (as things
stand now, most probably an xml file) which contains every reading in
every manuscript. This file resides in some sort of version control
repository, let's say it uses git. Scholars have write access to this
repository and are constantly filling in new information. Some sort of
peer review process decides which changes will be pushed to the master
repository. Proper markup allows them to fill in anything they consider
important: questions of transmission and textual criticism, grammatical,
metrical, linguistic points. Every single passage is linked against
images of all the manuscripts, so if you're reading this on a device
with access to the web, one click will bring up a picture of the
corresponding passage in every manuscript you want. If you want to see 
the text of manuscript X, one click will give you that text. Or the text 
and apparatus of all 15th-century manuscripts in French libraries. Or 
all lines displaying a certain metrical structure. (That's why the 
proper xml structure is so important.) I'm absolutely convinced that 
having this information in this sort of format will allow us to make 
huge progress in textual criticism (think of the programs that simulate 
evolutionary development in biomedicine and apply those to our database!)

This does not mean that printed editions will become useless. If an 
accomplished scholar with years of experience in Ovid wants to publish 
his edition, he will simply pull the repository at a given moment, he 
will then decide what will go into his text and his apparatus (i don't 
think that machines will ever be any better than human beings with 
regard to critical judgment), and he will then have the result printed. 
But again: the printed book will only be a representation of the 
information, it will not be identical to the information. With the 
proper tools, an editor can decide what this representation should look 
like, and that's where considerations about several apparatuses, note 
types, indexes and the organization of information come into play. And 
that's the area where I see ConTeXt playing an important role because of 
its powerful potential to process xml, to produce interactive documents, 
to combine text and illustrations.

For the time being, this is a dream, but I'm optimistic we will approach 
this dream, slowly, but steadily. In order to do this, however, we have 
to understand that the printed book is just a tool, not the end in itself.

All best

Thomas
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Talal]

Hans Hagen <pragma <at> wxs.nl> writes:

> >  Actually ranges have always been supported ... 
> > Maybe I should add those commands.
> > Hans 

Picking up on an old thread, again. 

The document below lays out the three basic parts of a critical
apparatus of a critical edition of a text: (1) the body text; (2) the
lemma (which is the part of the body text being commented upon); and
(3) the comment on the lemma.

I would like to be able to automate (through macros) the making of a
critical apparatus' note. This is for two reasons. First, the body text
and the lemma in the note below should be identical: as such, they
ideally not have to be typed twice, as it introduces the possibility of
error. Furthermore, if one manually writes out \linenote{Lemma ]
Comment} in the body of the text, you forego the separation of content
and style, since the separator ] has been hardcoded in.

This is my attempt so far:

- - -

\setuplinenumbering[% 	style=\tfxx, 	referencing=on, 	step=1,
	location=outer, 	method=page, 	align=left, 	distance=1em,
	width=0.4em, 	]

\definelinenote[linenote][% 	paragraph=yes, 	frame=on,framecolor=red,
	]% \setupnotation[linenote][% 	alternative=serried, 	width=broad,
	distance=.5em, 	display=yes, 	]%

\def\variant#1#2{{#1}\linenote{{#1}] {#2}}}

\def\lemma{This is the LEMMA.} \def\comment{This is my COMMENT on the
lemma.} \def\bodytext{This is the BODY TEXT. It should be identical to
the lemma in the note: their being identical should be automated so as
to minimise errors and reduce the amount of typing.}

%% DOCUMENT

\starttext

\startlinenumbering

% EX1 \section{EX1} \variant{Lemma lemma lemma lemma lemma lemma lemma
lemma lemma lemma lemma lemma lemma} {Comment comment comment.}.\blank

% EX2 \section{EX2} \section{With start and stop} \startlinenote[one]
{\lemma ] \comment} \bodytext \stoplinenote[one]

\stoplinenumbering

\stoptext

- - -

In the above, I have been able to successfully do "automate" this using
the macro command "variant". With this approach, however, the line
number is only that of the last word in the lemma.

To get line numbers that span more than one line, Hans instructed us to
use \startlinenote[x]...\stoplinenote[x]. However, I have not been able
to figure out how to "automate" the making of the lemma and comment
like was done in EX1 in such a stopstart block. I assume that the
solution lies in using \startsetups…\stopsetups + \definestartstop.
However, despite many attempts, I haven't been able to concoct the
right set of macros within that to get it working.

I'd be grateful for any help that could be offered.

Many thanks, Talal

p.s. Hans: When using \startlinenote…\stoplinenote, the addition of
some unique name (e.g. \startlinenote[one]) is obviously necessary. Is
there any way to automate this as well, as part of some sets of
macros/commands?
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 07/22/2015 09:26 PM, Talal wrote:
> [...]
> I would like to be able to automate (through macros) the making of a
> critical apparatus' note. This is for two reasons. First, the body text
> and the lemma in the note below should be identical: as such, they
> ideally not have to be typed twice, as it introduces the possibility of
> error. Furthermore, if one manually writes out \linenote{Lemma ]
> Comment} in the body of the text, you forego the separation of content
> and style, since the separator ] has been hardcoded in.

Hi Talal,

I wonder whether creating a new thread should be the right thing to do.
The original thread is three years old.

Anyway, this may help you (it isn’t my original code):

    \unexpanded\def\doVariant#1#2#3%
       {\startlinenote[#1]{#2] #3}#2\stoplinenote[#1]}

    \newcounter\countvariants
    \unexpanded\def\variant
       {\doglobal\increment\countvariants
        \normalexpanded{\doVariant{Varia:\countvariants}}}

    \starttext

    \startlinenumbering

    \dorecurse{20}{\variant{donald e knuth}{herman zapf} }

    \stoplinenumbering

    \stoptext

BTW, it has a “minor issue”: hyphenation doesn’t work in the body text
It works fine in the notes. I reported this, but I’m afraid it hasn’t
been solved.

Just in case it helps,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[talazem]

Dear Pablo,

Thank you very much for what you proposed — it did work indeed. I tried to achieve the same at some length this afternoon. I think I understand what is going on in the first macro, but wouldn’t have been able to arrive at the  the second one for \variant, or the counter (and still don’t fully understand it). Thanks again.

Hans, Idris, Thomas, and others interested in critical editions: I wonder whether this code — with the user-facing command \variant{#1}{#2} — might be something that could become part of an eventual CritTeXt package.

With many thanks and all best wishes,
Talal

p.s. I had thought it better to add this on to the old thread, since the topic was contiguous. Admittedly, I’m not sure what the proper etiquette for such matters is.

> On 22 Jul 2015, at 21:19, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
> 
> On 07/22/2015 09:26 PM, Talal wrote:
>> [...]
>> I would like to be able to automate (through macros) the making of a
>> critical apparatus' note. This is for two reasons. First, the body text
>> and the lemma in the note below should be identical: as such, they
>> ideally not have to be typed twice, as it introduces the possibility of
>> error. Furthermore, if one manually writes out \linenote{Lemma ]
>> Comment} in the body of the text, you forego the separation of content
>> and style, since the separator ] has been hardcoded in.
> 
> Hi Talal,
> 
> I wonder whether creating a new thread should be the right thing to do.
> The original thread is three years old.
> 
> Anyway, this may help you (it isn’t my original code):
> 
>    \unexpanded\def\doVariant#1#2#3%
>       {\startlinenote[#1]{#2] #3}#2\stoplinenote[#1]}
> 
>    \newcounter\countvariants
>    \unexpanded\def\variant
>       {\doglobal\increment\countvariants
>        \normalexpanded{\doVariant{Varia:\countvariants}}}
> 
>    \starttext
> 
>    \startlinenumbering
> 
>    \dorecurse{20}{\variant{donald e knuth}{herman zapf} }
> 
>    \stoplinenumbering
> 
>    \stoptext
> 
> BTW, it has a “minor issue”: hyphenation doesn’t work in the body text
> It works fine in the notes. I reported this, but I’m afraid it hasn’t
> been solved.
> 
> Just in case it helps,
> 
> 
> Pablo
> -- 
> http://www.ousia.tk
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 07/22/2015 11:33 PM, talazem@fastmail.fm wrote:
> Dear Pablo,
> 
> Thank you very much for what you proposed — it did work indeed. I
> tried to achieve the same at some length this afternoon. I think I
> understand what is going on in the first macro, but wouldn’t have been
> able to arrive at the the second one for \variant, or the counter (and
> still don’t fully understand it). Thanks again.

Dear Talal,

well, both macros come from Hans... I’m afraid I’m not smart enough for
that code ;-).

BTW, I just accidentally discovered a possible fix for the hyphenation
issue (although I’m not sure it is a bug itself).

I will open another thread to discuss that with the experts.


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: Critical editions with ConTeXt

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/22/2015 11:33 PM, talazem@fastmail.fm wrote:
> Dear Pablo,
>
> Thank you very much for what you proposed — it did work indeed. I tried to achieve the same at some length this afternoon. I think I understand what is going on in the first macro, but wouldn’t have been able to arrive at the  the second one for \variant, or the counter (and still don’t fully understand it). Thanks again.
>
> Hans, Idris, Thomas, and others interested in critical editions: I wonder whether this code — with the user-facing command \variant{#1}{#2} — might be something that could become part of an eventual CritTeXt package.

This is rather specific code and one then ends up with options for 
either or not the ] and so which then makes it more complex. Better is 
to collect such things into a module. If there is enough we can always 
see if some mechanisms are needed.

Hans

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