* simple question on kerning activation
@ 2012-11-26 19:01 Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-26 20:39 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-26 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi there,
I have the following file to check a feature in FreeSerif:
\setuppapersize[A4,landscape]
\usemodule[simplefonts][size=30pt]
\setmainfont[FreeSerif]
\starttext
dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par
{\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par}
{\bf dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par}
{\bf\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par}
\stoptext
Sorry for the stupid question: isn't it font kerning (not kern OT table,
but traditional non-OT kerning) enabled when compiling this source?
Many thanks for your help,
Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-26 19:01 simple question on kerning activation Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-26 20:39 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-26 22:04 ` Pablo Rodríguez 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-26 20:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Pablo Rodríguez On 11/26/2012 8:01 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: > Hi there, > > I have the following file to check a feature in FreeSerif: > > \setuppapersize[A4,landscape] > \usemodule[simplefonts][size=30pt] > \setmainfont[FreeSerif] > \starttext > > dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par > {\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > {\bf dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > {\bf\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > \stoptext > > Sorry for the stupid question: isn't it font kerning (not kern OT table, > but traditional non-OT kerning) enabled when compiling this source? kerning is *always* driven by the font, given that the font has kerns (not all fonts need them) you can see kern sin action with: \starttext \showfontkerns \input ward \stoptext Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-26 20:39 ` Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-26 22:04 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-26 22:46 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-26 23:11 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-26 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 26/11/12 21:39, Hans Hagen wrote: > On 11/26/2012 8:01 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: >> Sorry for the stupid question: isn't it font kerning (not kern OT table, >> but traditional non-OT kerning) enabled when compiling this source? > > kerning is *always* driven by the font, given that the font has kerns > (not all fonts need them) Thanks for your reply, Hans. Sorry, my question was inaccurate. I know that kerning information is in the font, but it is ConTeXt that uses this information (or not). As far as I know, there are two kinds of kerningns: an OT kern feature from the GPOS table and an old TrueType 'kern' table. In the following sample OpenType features aren't enabled: \usemodule[simplefonts][size=30pt] \setmainfont[FreeSerif] \starttext dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par {\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} {\bf dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} {\bf\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} \stoptext I'm using TrueType fonts of FreeSerif. Isn't the TrueType 'kern' enabled by default in ConTeXt? (The glyphs in the example above have no kerning at all, so I wonder whether at least the TrueType 'kern' table should be used by ConTeXt.) Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-26 22:04 ` Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-26 22:46 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-27 16:57 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-26 23:11 ` Wolfgang Schuster 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-26 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Pablo Rodríguez On 11/26/2012 11:04 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: > On 26/11/12 21:39, Hans Hagen wrote: >> On 11/26/2012 8:01 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: >>> Sorry for the stupid question: isn't it font kerning (not kern OT table, >>> but traditional non-OT kerning) enabled when compiling this source? >> >> kerning is *always* driven by the font, given that the font has kerns >> (not all fonts need them) > > Thanks for your reply, Hans. > > Sorry, my question was inaccurate. > > I know that kerning information is in the font, but it is ConTeXt that > uses this information (or not). > > As far as I know, there are two kinds of kerningns: an OT kern feature > from the GPOS table and an old TrueType 'kern' table. > > In the following sample OpenType features aren't enabled: > > \usemodule[simplefonts][size=30pt] > \setmainfont[FreeSerif] > \starttext > dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par > {\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > {\bf dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > {\bf\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > \stoptext > > I'm using TrueType fonts of FreeSerif. Isn't the TrueType 'kern' enabled > by default in ConTeXt? (The glyphs in the example above have no kerning > at all, so I wonder whether at least the TrueType 'kern' table should be > used by ConTeXt.) Sure, kern tables are used and are quite valid in open type as well (open type includes truetype). I see lots of kerns in: \starttext \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward \stopTEXpage \stoptext I assume simplefonts uses the default featureset Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-26 22:46 ` Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-27 16:57 ` Pablo Rodríguez [not found] ` <50B4F2B9.4070206@wxs.nl> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 26/11/12 23:46, Hans Hagen wrote: > [...] > Sure, kern tables are used and are quite valid in open type as well > (open type includes truetype). > > I see lots of kerns in: > > \starttext > \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] > \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward > \stopTEXpage > \stoptext Well, I don't see any kern. Using ConTeXt - 2012.11.26 13:31 + LuaTeX-0.70.1. What is wrong here? Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <50B4F2B9.4070206@wxs.nl>]
* Re: simple question on kerning activation [not found] ` <50B4F2B9.4070206@wxs.nl> @ 2012-11-27 17:36 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 17:42 ` luigi scarso 2012-11-27 17:56 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 651 bytes --] On 27/11/12 18:04, Hans Hagen wrote: >>> I see lots of kerns in: >>> >>> \starttext >>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>> \stopTEXpage >>> \stoptext >> >> Well, I don't see any kern. > > attached Mine attached to (excluding source) >> Using ConTeXt - 2012.11.26 13:31 + LuaTeX-0.70.1. >> >> What is wrong here? > > maybe the logs reveal something BTW, on my computer fontconfig isn't able to find many system fonts. But I guess this isn't the cause, since ConTeXt deals directly with the fonts. Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk [-- Attachment #2: kern.tuc --] [-- Type: application/tamp-update-confirm, Size: 8380 bytes --] [-- Attachment #3: kern.pdf --] [-- Type: application/binary, Size: 18317 bytes --] [-- Attachment #4: kern.log --] [-- Type: text/x-log, Size: 6374 bytes --] (/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/cont-yes.mkiv ConTeXt ver: 2012.11.26 13:31 MKIV fmt: 2012.11.27 int: english/english system > cont-new.mkiv loaded (/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/cont-new.mkiv system > beware: some patches loaded from cont-new.mkiv ) system > files > jobname: kern, input: kern, result: kern fonts > latin modern fonts are not preloaded languages > language en is active (kern.tex{/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/mkiv-base.map} fonts > preloading latin modern fonts (second stage) fonts > typescripts > unknown: library 'loc' {/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map}{/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-rm.map} fonts > fallback modern rm 12pt is loaded % begin of command line arguments % % script = true % fulljobname = ./kern.tex % input = ./kern.tex % no-parse-first-line = true % kindofrun = 2 % currentrun = 3 % % end of command line arguments % begin of command line files % % 1 ./kern.tex % % end of command line files visualize > enabled (/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/sample/ward.tex) backend > xmp > using file '/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/lpdf-pdx.xml' pages > flushing realpage 1, userpage 1 ) )</usr/share/fonts/ousia-fonts/FreeSerif.ttf> system > files > start used files used files > 1: filename=cont-yes.mkiv | filetype=tex | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/cont-yes.mkiv | usedmethod=database used files > 2: filename=cont-new.mkiv | filetype=tex | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/cont-new.mkiv | usedmethod=database used files > 3: filename=lang-us.lua | filetype=lua | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/patterns/lang-us.lua | usedmethod=database used files > 4: filename=kern.tex | foundname=kern.tex | usedmethod=direct used files > 5: filename=mkiv-base.map | filetype=map | format=map | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/mkiv-base.map | usedmethod=database used files > 6: filename=lm.lfg | filetype=tex | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/lm.lfg | usedmethod=database used files > 7: filename=lm-math.lfg | filetype=tex | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/lm-math.lfg | usedmethod=database used files > 8: filename=lm-math.map | filetype=map | format=map | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map | usedmethod=database used files > 9: filename=lm-rm.map | filetype=map | format=map | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-rm.map | usedmethod=database used files > 10: filename=lmroman12-regular | filetype=otf | format=otf | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/lm/lmroman12-regular.otf | usedmethod=database used files > 11: filename=lmmath-regular.otf | filetype=opentypefonts | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/lm/lmmath-regular.otf | usedmethod=database used files > 12: filename=lmmath-regular.otf | filetype=otf | format=otf | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/lm/lmmath-regular.otf | usedmethod=database used files > 13: filename=/usr/share/fonts/ousia-fonts/FreeSerif.ttf | format=ttf | foundname=/usr/share/fonts/ousia-fonts/FreeSerif.ttf | usedmethod=direct used files > 14: filename=lmmonoltcond10-regular.otf | filetype=otf | format=otf | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/lm/lmmonoltcond10-regular.otf | usedmethod=database used files > 15: filename=ward | filetype=tex | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/sample/ward.tex | usedmethod=database used files > 16: filename=lpdf-pdx.xml | filetype=tex | foundname=/opt/ctxbeta/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/lpdf-pdx.xml | usedmethod=database system > files > stop used files system > structure > start used structure used structure > text: kern system > structure > stop used structure mkiv lua stats > used config file - selfautoparent:/texmf/web2c/texmfcnf.lua mkiv lua stats > used cache path - readable: '/home/ousia/luatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e' (order 2) mkiv lua stats > used cache path - writable: '/home/ousia/luatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e' mkiv lua stats > resource resolver - loadtime 0.033 seconds, 1 scans with scantime 0.008 seconds, 0 shared scans, 16 found files, scanned paths: /usr/share/fonts mkiv lua stats > stored bytecode data - 313 modules (0.300 sec), 67 tables (0.010 sec), 380 chunks (0.310 sec) mkiv lua stats > cleaned up reserved nodes - 41 nodes, 9 lists of 441 mkiv lua stats > node memory usage - 4 glue, 4 penalty, 15 attribute, 30 glue_spec, 5 attribute_list, 1 pdf_literal mkiv lua stats > node list callback tasks - 6 unique task lists, 5 instances (re)created, 32 calls mkiv lua stats > used backend - pdf (backend for directly generating pdf output) mkiv lua stats > loaded patterns - en::2 mkiv lua stats > jobdata time - 0.002 seconds saving, 0.001 seconds loading mkiv lua stats > callbacks - 119 direct, 166 indirect, 285 total mkiv lua stats > randomizer - resumed with value 0.3491570029171 mkiv lua stats > lxml preparation time - 0.000 seconds, 0 nodes, 15 lpath calls, 0 cached calls mkiv lua stats > result saved in file - kern.pdf, compresslevel 3, objectcompreslevel 3 mkiv lua stats > loaded fonts - 4 files: lmmath-regular.otf lmmonoltcond10-regular.otf lmroman12-regular.otf freeserif.ttf mkiv lua stats > fonts load time - 0.704 seconds mkiv lua stats > visualization time - 0.001 seconds mkiv lua stats > luatex banner - this is luatex, version beta-0.70.1-2012052416 (rev 4277) mkiv lua stats > control sequences - 35985 of 65536 + 100000 mkiv lua stats > current memory usage - 36 MB (ctx: 37 MB) mkiv lua stats > runtime - 1.404 seconds, 1 processed pages, 1 shipped pages, 0.712 pages/second [-- Attachment #5: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 17:36 ` Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 17:42 ` luigi scarso 2012-11-27 17:46 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 17:56 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: luigi scarso @ 2012-11-27 17:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 285 bytes --] On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de> wrote: > \starttext >>>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>>> \stopTEXpage >>>> \stoptext >>> this is mine -- luigi [-- Attachment #2: test-3.pdf --] [-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 20722 bytes --] [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 17:42 ` luigi scarso @ 2012-11-27 17:46 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 17:49 ` luigi scarso 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 27/11/12 18:42, luigi scarso wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de> wrote: >> \starttext >>>>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>>>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>>>> \stopTEXpage >>>>> \stoptext >>>> > this is mine Something must be wrong with my configuration, since i don't even get all kerns using the OT kern feature. Any ideas of what could be wrong? Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 17:46 ` Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 17:49 ` luigi scarso 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: luigi scarso @ 2012-11-27 17:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de> wrote: > On 27/11/12 18:42, luigi scarso wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de> wrote: >>> \starttext >>>>>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>>>>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>>>>> \stopTEXpage >>>>>> \stoptext >>>>> >> this is mine > > Something must be wrong with my configuration, since i don't even get > all kerns using the OT kern feature. > > Any ideas of what could be wrong? hm, no. In this situation I usually reinstall context on a new folder, or rerun first-setup -- luigi ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 17:36 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 17:42 ` luigi scarso @ 2012-11-27 17:56 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-27 19:34 ` Pablo Rodríguez 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-27 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Pablo Rodríguez On 11/27/2012 6:36 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: > On 27/11/12 18:04, Hans Hagen wrote: >>>> I see lots of kerns in: >>>> >>>> \starttext >>>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>>> \stopTEXpage >>>> \stoptext >>> >>> Well, I don't see any kern. >> >> attached > > Mine attached to (excluding source) > >>> Using ConTeXt - 2012.11.26 13:31 + LuaTeX-0.70.1. >>> >>> What is wrong here? >> >> maybe the logs reveal something > > BTW, on my computer fontconfig isn't able to find many system fonts. But > I guess this isn't the cause, since ConTeXt deals directly with the fonts. the font gets included .. so maybe someone else should also test it > Many thanks for your help, are you sure that the font is okay? mine is 1.687.516 bytes btw, the font has kerns (gpos feature using classes) mtxrun --script font --save freeserif.ttf shows the internals (in a lua file) mtxrun --script font --list --info --file freeserif.ttf shows all features Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 17:56 ` Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-27 19:34 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 21:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 27/11/12 18:56, Hans Hagen wrote: > On 11/27/2012 6:36 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: >>>>> I see lots of kerns in: >>>>> >>>>> \starttext >>>>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>>>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>>>> \stopTEXpage >>>>> \stoptext >>>> >>>> Well, I don't see any kern. > [...] > the font gets included .. so maybe someone else should also test it > > are you sure that the font is okay? mine is 1.687.516 bytes Probably my font is newer (from http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/freefont/freefont-ttf-20120503.zip). I think there is no file clash, since ConTeXt standalone doesn't provide the font > btw, the font has kerns (gpos feature using classes) > > mtxrun --script font --save freeserif.ttf > > shows the internals (in a lua file) > > mtxrun --script font --list --info --file freeserif.ttf > > shows all features Well, I know that the font has kern as OpenType feature, but I need it to have the TrueType kern table (not the OpenType feature). At least on my ConTeXt installation, OpenType features aren't enabled by default. I used ConTeXt to check the font wrong kerns that my ereader (Sony PRS-T1) showed with this font. Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 19:34 ` Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 21:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2012-11-27 21:43 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 21:39 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-27 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-27 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Am 27.11.2012 um 20:34 schrieb Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de>: > On 27/11/12 18:56, Hans Hagen wrote: >> On 11/27/2012 6:36 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: >>>>>> I see lots of kerns in: >>>>>> >>>>>> \starttext >>>>>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>>>>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>>>>> \stopTEXpage >>>>>> \stoptext >>>>> >>>>> Well, I don't see any kern. >> [...] >> the font gets included .. so maybe someone else should also test it >> >> are you sure that the font is okay? mine is 1.687.516 bytes > > Probably my font is newer (from > http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/freefont/freefont-ttf-20120503.zip). > > I think there is no file clash, since ConTeXt standalone doesn't provide the font The font files from the gnu page have no kerning but the files from http://de.fonts2u.com/free-serif.schriftart have kerning information. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 21:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-27 21:43 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 21:58 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 21:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 27/11/12 22:34, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > Am 27.11.2012 um 20:34 schrieb Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de>: > [...] >> Probably my font is newer (from >> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/freefont/freefont-ttf-20120503.zip). >> >> I think there is no file clash, since ConTeXt standalone doesn't provide the font > > The font files from the gnu page have no kerning but the files from > http://de.fonts2u.com/free-serif.schriftart have kerning information. Many thanks for your reply, Wolfgang. I'd like to report this to the font developer (he has assured me that the fonts have kerning). How have you discovered that the Savannah FreeSerif fonts have no kerning info? Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 21:43 ` Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 21:58 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2012-11-27 22:10 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-27 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Am 27.11.2012 um 22:43 schrieb Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de>: > On 27/11/12 22:34, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: >> Am 27.11.2012 um 20:34 schrieb Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de>: >> [...] >>> Probably my font is newer (from >>> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/freefont/freefont-ttf-20120503.zip). >>> >>> I think there is no file clash, since ConTeXt standalone doesn't provide the font >> >> The font files from the gnu page have no kerning but the files from >> http://de.fonts2u.com/free-serif.schriftart have kerning information. > > Many thanks for your reply, Wolfgang. > > I'd like to report this to the font developer (he has assured me that > the fonts have kerning). > > How have you discovered that the Savannah FreeSerif fonts have no > kerning info? That’s not what I wanted to write. I had the same thought as Hans with the missing for the “default” script (AFAIR this was also a problem with other fonts in the past) but I wanted to test it first but he was faster than me. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 21:58 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-27 22:10 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-28 17:17 ` Pablo Rodríguez 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-27 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Wolfgang Schuster On 11/27/2012 10:58 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > > Am 27.11.2012 um 22:43 schrieb Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de>: > >> On 27/11/12 22:34, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: >>> Am 27.11.2012 um 20:34 schrieb Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de>: >>> [...] >>>> Probably my font is newer (from >>>> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/freefont/freefont-ttf-20120503.zip). >>>> >>>> I think there is no file clash, since ConTeXt standalone doesn't provide the font >>> >>> The font files from the gnu page have no kerning but the files from >>> http://de.fonts2u.com/free-serif.schriftart have kerning information. >> >> Many thanks for your reply, Wolfgang. >> >> I'd like to report this to the font developer (he has assured me that >> the fonts have kerning). >> >> How have you discovered that the Savannah FreeSerif fonts have no >> kerning info? > > That’s not what I wanted to write. I had the same thought as Hans with the missing > for the “default” script (AFAIR this was also a problem with other fonts in the past) > but I wanted to test it first but he was faster than me. Normally context will automatically fall back on latn but does so by looking at the feature list. These fonts support so many scripts that it's not possible. You (pablo) can report to the font designer that for features like kerning a dflt,dflt pair makes sense. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 22:10 ` Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-28 17:17 ` Pablo Rodríguez 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-28 17:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 27/11/12 23:10, Hans Hagen wrote: > > Normally context will automatically fall back on latn but does so by > looking at the feature list. These fonts support so many scripts that > it's not possible. > > You (pablo) can report to the font designer that for features like > kerning a dflt,dflt pair makes sense. Thank you very much, Hans, Wolfgang and Luigi for your help. Sorry for the messages, but I used ConTeXt to check whether old traditional kerning was enabled on FreeSerif fonts (not as OpenType features). This is actually for an ereader. As far as I know, I have to enable the Latin script in ConTeXt in all the fonts I use with include OT features. That's fine for me. What I couldn't understand before was that I was getting less kerns even with the OpenType feature enabled. I took me a while to understand that those kerns that weren't showing off in my file (my guess) were removed in the latest version of FreeSerif. BTW, I need to enable the Latin script even for features that belong to other scripts, such as in Theano Didot (those contextual alternatives and stylistic set 11 belong to the Greek script): \usemodule[simplefonts] \definefontfeature[default][default][script=latn,calt=yes,ss11=yes] \setmainfont[Theano Didot] \starttext \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] βάρβαροι θαυμασθεὶς \stopTEXpage \stoptext Many thanks again for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 19:34 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 21:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-27 21:39 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-27 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-27 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Pablo Rodríguez On 11/27/2012 8:34 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: > Probably my font is newer (from > http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/freefont/freefont-ttf-20120503.zip). i got it from: http://www.fonts2u.com/ > At least on my ConTeXt installation, OpenType features aren't enabled by > default. hard to believe Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 19:34 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 21:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2012-11-27 21:39 ` Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-27 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-27 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Pablo Rodríguez On 11/27/2012 8:34 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: > On 27/11/12 18:56, Hans Hagen wrote: >> On 11/27/2012 6:36 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: >>>>>> I see lots of kerns in: >>>>>> >>>>>> \starttext >>>>>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt] >>>>>> \definedfont[file:freeserif.ttf*default] \showfontkerns \input ward >>>>>> \stopTEXpage >>>>>> \stoptext >>>>> >>>>> Well, I don't see any kern. >> [...] >> the font gets included .. so maybe someone else should also test it >> >> are you sure that the font is okay? mine is 1.687.516 bytes > > Probably my font is newer (from > http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/freefont/freefont-ttf-20120503.zip). that version misses a dflt,dflt -> kern definition so you need to add: \definefontfeature[default][default][script=latn] at the top of your document ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-26 22:04 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-26 22:46 ` Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-26 23:11 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2012-11-27 16:59 ` Pablo Rodríguez 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-26 23:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Am 26.11.2012 um 23:04 schrieb Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de>: > On 26/11/12 21:39, Hans Hagen wrote: >> On 11/26/2012 8:01 PM, Pablo Rodríguez wrote: >>> Sorry for the stupid question: isn't it font kerning (not kern OT table, >>> but traditional non-OT kerning) enabled when compiling this source? >> >> kerning is *always* driven by the font, given that the font has kerns >> (not all fonts need them) > > Thanks for your reply, Hans. > > Sorry, my question was inaccurate. > > I know that kerning information is in the font, but it is ConTeXt that > uses this information (or not). > > As far as I know, there are two kinds of kerningns: an OT kern feature > from the GPOS table and an old TrueType 'kern' table. > > In the following sample OpenType features aren't enabled: > > \usemodule[simplefonts][size=30pt] > \setmainfont[FreeSerif] > \starttext > dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par > {\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > {\bf dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > {\bf\em dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > \stoptext > > I'm using TrueType fonts of FreeSerif. Isn't the TrueType 'kern' enabled > by default in ConTeXt? (The glyphs in the example above have no kerning > at all, so I wonder whether at least the TrueType 'kern' table should be > used by ConTeXt.) Is there a difference between the two lines? \usemodule[simplefonts] \setmainfont[FreeSerif] \starttext \showfontkerns dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par {\definedfont[file:serif*default]dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} \stoptext Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-26 23:11 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-27 16:59 ` Pablo Rodríguez 2012-11-27 17:11 ` luigi scarso 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 27/11/12 00:11, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > [...] > Is there a difference between the two lines? > > \usemodule[simplefonts] > \setmainfont[FreeSerif] > \starttext > \showfontkerns > dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par > {\definedfont[file:serif*default]dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} > \stoptext No. None has any kerning. Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 16:59 ` Pablo Rodríguez @ 2012-11-27 17:11 ` luigi scarso 2012-11-28 9:01 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: luigi scarso @ 2012-11-27 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 540 bytes --] On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Pablo Rodríguez <oinos@web.de> wrote: > On 27/11/12 00:11, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: >> [...] >> Is there a difference between the two lines? >> >> \usemodule[simplefonts] >> \setmainfont[FreeSerif] >> \starttext >> \showfontkerns >> dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par >> {\definedfont[file:serif*default]dadedidodufafefifofufrflftlalelilolutatetitotu\par} >> \stoptext > > No. None has any kerning. > I see this and I believe that there are kerning -- or not ? -- luigi [-- Attachment #2: test-1-1.png --] [-- Type: image/png, Size: 70094 bytes --] [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-27 17:11 ` luigi scarso @ 2012-11-28 9:01 ` Hans Hagen 2012-11-28 9:13 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-28 9:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On 11/27/2012 6:11 PM, luigi scarso wrote: > I see this and I believe that there are kerning -- or not ? yes, lots of them ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: simple question on kerning activation 2012-11-28 9:01 ` Hans Hagen @ 2012-11-28 9:13 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-11-28 9:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Am 28.11.2012 um 10:01 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>: > On 11/27/2012 6:11 PM, luigi scarso wrote: > >> I see this and I believe that there are kerning -- or not ? > > yes, lots of them I tried your example with a few other fonts and none of them kerned so much and all of them had a good spacing for the text. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
![[-- Attachment #2: test-1-1.png --] [-- Type: image/png, Size: 70094 bytes --]](../../CAG5iGsBY55K1xONjAXxubM1G4hPLP5zm1L=kpijrc8GPSLEd5A@mail.gmail.com/2-test-1-1.png){kind=link}
end of thread, other threads:[~2012-11-28 17:17 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2012-11-26 19:01 simple question on kerning activation Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-26 20:39 ` Hans Hagen
2012-11-26 22:04 ` Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-26 22:46 ` Hans Hagen
2012-11-27 16:57 ` Pablo Rodríguez
[not found] ` <50B4F2B9.4070206@wxs.nl>
2012-11-27 17:36 ` Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-27 17:42 ` luigi scarso
2012-11-27 17:46 ` Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-27 17:49 ` luigi scarso
2012-11-27 17:56 ` Hans Hagen
2012-11-27 19:34 ` Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-27 21:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2012-11-27 21:43 ` Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-27 21:58 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2012-11-27 22:10 ` Hans Hagen
2012-11-28 17:17 ` Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-27 21:39 ` Hans Hagen
2012-11-27 21:48 ` Hans Hagen
2012-11-26 23:11 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2012-11-27 16:59 ` Pablo Rodríguez
2012-11-27 17:11 ` luigi scarso
2012-11-28 9:01 ` Hans Hagen
2012-11-28 9:13 ` Wolfgang Schuster
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).