Non-breaking spaces

Non-breaking spaces

["H. Özoguz"]

> \nobreakspace
> \ideographicspace
> \ideographichalffillspace
> \twoperemspace
> \threeperemspace
> \fourperemspace
> \sixperemspace
> \figurespace
> \punctuationspace
> \breakablethinspace
> \hairspace
> \zerowidthspace
> \zwnj
> \zwj
> \narrownobreakspace
>
> or just their utf representation

Which of them is like \hairspace, but not breakable?
Or where can I read all the properties of this commands?

Huseyin

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Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

[no cc]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 09:35:43 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> On 4/17/2013 5:28 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
>
>> (Eventually I have to port the ConTeXt support package for Npp to a
>> lexer/plugin where I can define these things explicitly, but first I
>> need someone who knows that lexer stuff to help...)
>
> it would be nice if there was a (say special dejavu mono) that has  
> visual appearances for such characters
>
> anyway .. my scite lexer visualizes the spacers

My Npp is from a year ago. I just checked and

http://www.notepad-plus-plus.org/news/notepad-6.2-release-udl2.html

http://udl20.weebly.com/operators.html

So I'll update after the work week is over and see if this new framework  
can accommodate the spacers etc. Then I'll prepare a new ConTeXt support  
package for npp.

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/17/2013 5:28 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:

> (Eventually I have to port the ConTeXt support package for Npp to a
> lexer/plugin where I can define these things explicitly, but first I
> need someone who knows that lexer stuff to help...)

it would be nice if there was a (say special dejavu mono) that has 
visual appearances for such characters

anyway .. my scite lexer visualizes the spacers

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 08:51:37 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> \defineactivecharater + {\narrownobreakspace}
>>
>> و+الباب
>>
>> (untested, but on my list)
>
>> But per the current definition I should be able to define U+"202F as,
>> e.g., .7ex in the font and get the same effect, right?
>
> why make a character active and let it expand to itself as letter?
>
> normally the font handler never sees that character as there is no  
> character -> glyph issue involved
>
> just insert the utf character as-is

Sure, but two motivations:

1) In fine Arabic typesetting this can occur literally dozens of times a  
page, so I need something visible/convenient analogous to tilda/~ (which  
-- I am ashamed to say -- I still use in mkiv)

2) I can't currently "see" "202F in my editor (notepad++) and the current  
syntax-highlighting features don't display it automatically.

(Eventually I have to port the ConTeXt support package for Npp to a  
lexer/plugin where I can define these things explicitly, but first I need  
someone who knows that lexer stuff to help...)

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/17/2013 4:30 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:56:41 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 4/17/2013 3:30 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
>>> Hi Hans,
>>>
>>> These commands are good to know!
>>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:16:41 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> \narrownobreakspace
>>>
>>> If a font does not have U+202F defined, what's the best way to redefine
>>> this to, say, one half of the current font's regular space U+0020 (with
>>> no shrinking or stretching of course).
>>
>> it has nothing to do with fonts ... they are not characters bound to
>> glyphs .. independent so to say ... dealt with at another level
>
> In spac-chr.mkiv there is
>
> Line 73: \edef\narrownobreakspace      {\normalUchar"202F}
>
> So in the preamble we have to do something like (spac-hor.mkiv, line 905)
>
> \edef\narrownobreakspace{\penalty\plustenthousand\kern .7ex}

why redefine it? just keep it as is ... such an utf char automagically 
in mkiv becomes a combination of kern / skip / penalty ... if you start 
redefining yourself it also gets out of control when it's passed around

don't worry about how that happens (just assume the abstraction is taken 
care of)

> Then I can say, e.g.
>
> \defineactivecharater + {\narrownobreakspace}
>
> و+الباب
>
> (untested, but on my list)

> But per the current definition I should be able to define U+"202F as,
> e.g., .7ex in the font and get the same effect, right?

why make a character active and let it expand to itself as letter?

normally the font handler never sees that character as there is no 
character -> glyph issue involved

just insert the utf character as-is

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Hi,

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 01:08:30 -0600, H. Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:

> How to make it non-breaking?

See also my reply to Hans, basically you need a

\penalty10000

(See TeXBook, page 353, 110)

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:56:41 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>
> On 4/17/2013 3:30 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> These commands are good to know!
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:16:41 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> \narrownobreakspace
>>
>> If a font does not have U+202F defined, what's the best way to redefine
>> this to, say, one half of the current font's regular space U+0020 (with
>> no shrinking or stretching of course).
>
> it has nothing to do with fonts ... they are not characters bound to  
> glyphs .. independent so to say ... dealt with at another level

In spac-chr.mkiv there is

Line 73: \edef\narrownobreakspace      {\normalUchar"202F}

So in the preamble we have to do something like (spac-hor.mkiv, line 905)

\edef\narrownobreakspace{\penalty\plustenthousand\kern .7ex}

Then I can say, e.g.

\defineactivecharater + {\narrownobreakspace}

و+الباب

(untested, but on my list)

But per the current definition I should be able to define U+"202F as,  
e.g., .7ex in the font and get the same effect, right?

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/17/2013 3:30 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
> Hi Hans,
>
> These commands are good to know!
>
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:16:41 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>> \narrownobreakspace
>
> If a font does not have U+202F defined, what's the best way to redefine
> this to, say, one half of the current font's regular space U+0020 (with
> no shrinking or stretching of course).

it has nothing to do with fonts ... they are not characters bound to 
glyphs .. independent so to say ... dealt with at another level

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Hi Hans,

These commands are good to know!

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:16:41 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> \narrownobreakspace

If a font does not have U+202F defined, what's the best way to redefine  
this to, say, one half of the current font's regular space U+0020 (with no  
shrinking or stretching of course).

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Non-breaking spaces

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/17/2013 9:08 AM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
> For typographical fine-tuning one needs often non-breaking spaces. But
> not only full spaces, but half spaces, or even less. I have this example:
>
> and\hskip1pt/or
>
> But \hskip1pt is not non-breaking, like "\," (half space) is. How to
> make it non-breaking? Or are there predfined ones, analog to \, ?

\nobreakspace
\ideographicspace
\ideographichalffillspace
\twoperemspace
\threeperemspace
\fourperemspace
\sixperemspace
\figurespace
\punctuationspace
\breakablethinspace
\hairspace
\zerowidthspace
\zwnj
\zwj
\narrownobreakspace

or just their utf representation


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Non-breaking spaces

["H. Özoguz"]

For typographical fine-tuning one needs often non-breaking spaces. But 
not only full spaces, but half spaces, or even less. I have this example:

and\hskip1pt/or

But \hskip1pt is not non-breaking, like "\," (half space) is. How to 
make it non-breaking? Or are there predfined ones, analog to \, ?

Huseyin


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