Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

["H. Özoguz"]

If this behavior of context setting the kassra (slash) too low, do 
anyone knows a font, where this not happens with the symbol "allah" and 
kassra in context? I thought in this mailer were some arabic typers... ?

Huseyin
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Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

[Khaled Hosny]

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 03:22:27PM -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
> Salaam, Huseyin,
> 
> I missed this and other threads, it's been busy here...
> 
> On Tue, 07 May 2013 23:35:25 -0600, H. Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:
> 
> >But with traditionalarabic it is worse than with arabtype. What
> >could be a way to fix this?
> 
> Traditional Arabic is a uniscribe-compliant font, but not a fully
> opentype font. Uniscribe also supports older, pre-unicode protocols.
> In other words, TraditionalArabic is platform-dependent. So unless
> M$ has updated it in a recent OS, it will not work in ConTeXt MkIV.

It did (all its fonts actually), it now uses GPOS for mark placement.

> Since XeTeX uses the local libraries, then mkii/xetex on windows
> might work.

XeTeX does not use any system libraries for its OpenType layout, in the
past is was using ICU LayoutEngine and now it is using HarfBuzz, in all
platforms (i.e. a third party library, but not a system one). However,
HarfBuzz has heuristics to place marks based on glyph bounding boxes in
the case of GPOS absence (a bit similar to TeX's \accent but knows which
marks goes above or below or off the center).

Regards,
Khaled
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Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Salaam, Huseyin,

I missed this and other threads, it's been busy here...

On Tue, 07 May 2013 23:35:25 -0600, H. Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:

> But with traditionalarabic it is worse than with arabtype. What could be  
> a way to fix this?

Traditional Arabic is a uniscribe-compliant font, but not a fully opentype  
font. Uniscribe also supports older, pre-unicode protocols. In other  
words, TraditionalArabic is platform-dependent. So unless M$ has updated  
it in a recent OS, it will not work in ConTeXt MkIV. Since XeTeX uses the  
local libraries, then mkii/xetex on windows might work.

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/8/2013 7:35 AM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
>> \usemodule[fnt-20,art-01]
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> \def\sample{اللهِ\quad اللَّـهِ}
>>
>> \setvariables
>>     [otftracker]
>>     [font=name:traditionalarabicnormal,
>>      size=24pt,
>>      features=arabic,
>>      direction=-1,
>>      title=Feature Check,
>>      sample=\sample]
>>
>> \page
>>
>> \setvariables
>>     [otftracker]
>>     [font=arabtype,
>>      size=24pt,
>>      features=arabic,
>>      direction=-1,
>>      title=Feature Check,
>>      sample=\sample]
>>
>> \stoptext
>
> Yes, again, kassra is set too low, in both fonts. But with
> traditionalarabic it is worse than with arabtype. What could be a way to
> fix this?

fix the font

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Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

["H. Özoguz"]

> \usemodule[fnt-20,art-01]
>
> \starttext
>
> \def\sample{اللهِ\quad اللَّـهِ}
>
> \setvariables
>     [otftracker]
>     [font=name:traditionalarabicnormal,
>      size=24pt,
>      features=arabic,
>      direction=-1,
>      title=Feature Check,
>      sample=\sample]
>
> \page
>
> \setvariables
>     [otftracker]
>     [font=arabtype,
>      size=24pt,
>      features=arabic,
>      direction=-1,
>      title=Feature Check,
>      sample=\sample]
>
> \stoptext

Yes, again, kassra is set too low, in both fonts. But with 
traditionalarabic it is worse than with arabtype. What could be a way to 
fix this?

Huseyin

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Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/7/2013 8:10 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
>> i only followed this topic on a distance so first we need an example
>> that clearly shows a problem
> I described an example here:
> http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/073025.html
>
> as a code, and with a pdf in attachment. Maybe it is not clear what I
> mean?: The "slash" is set too low, and this only in ConTeXt. Is the
> example good enough?

my guess is that the bottom mark is not dealt with in the font (as 
arabtype also has it too low i.e. there is no mark applied) .. is this 
valid arabic input?

\usemodule[fnt-20,art-01]

\starttext

\def\sample{اللهِ\quad اللَّـهِ}

\setvariables
   [otftracker]
   [font=name:traditionalarabicnormal,
    size=24pt,
    features=arabic,
    direction=-1,
    title=Feature Check,
    sample=\sample]

\page

\setvariables
   [otftracker]
   [font=arabtype,
    size=24pt,
    features=arabic,
    direction=-1,
    title=Feature Check,
    sample=\sample]

\stoptext

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

["H. Özoguz"]

> i only followed this topic on a distance so first we need an example
> that clearly shows a problem
I described an example here: 
http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/073025.html

as a code, and with a pdf in attachment. Maybe it is not clear what I 
mean?: The "slash" is set too low, and this only in ConTeXt. Is the 
example good enough?


Huseyin
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Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/7/2013 1:32 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
> mistyping in last one, corrected:
>
> If this behavior of context setting the kassra (slash) too low is not
> easily understandable or fixable, do
> anyone knows a font, where this not happens with the symbol "allah" and
> kassra in context? I thought in this mailer were some arabic typers... ?

i only followed this topic on a distance so first we need an example 
that clearly shows a problem

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

["H. Özoguz"]

mistyping in last one, corrected:

If this behavior of context setting the kassra (slash) too low is not easily understandable or fixable, do
anyone knows a font, where this not happens with the symbol "allah" and
kassra in context? I thought in this mailer were some arabic typers... ?

Huseyin

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Re: Arabic typesetting, one more

["H. Özoguz"]

Any ideas, where this bug comes from? Seems weird, that it affects only 
one sinlg lettercombination, in other programms this do not occur.

Thanks.
Huseyin
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Arabic typesetting, one more

["H. Özoguz"]

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Hi there,

I have the following example with the font "traditional arabic", but the 
question is possibly independent from the font.
The code:

\definefont[Shehw][name:traditionalarabicnormal*arabic at 24pt] % or 
file:amiri-regular.ttf*... file:alq.ttf
\def\Arab[#1]{\noindentation \setupalign[r2l]\Shehw#1}
\starttext
\Arab[
اللَّـهِ
]\blank
\Arab[
اللهِ
]
\stoptext

(The lower one is the correct symbol, the upper one not.) If you can't 
compile, look at the attachment.
The upper one has the typographical correct symbol under it (below left, 
"kassra", looks like a slanted hyphen). This kassra has a nice distant 
from the word "Allah".

But the lower example, the correct "Allah", has a far too big distant 
from its kassra. Why? This does not happen e.g. in CorelDraw, where the 
distant is nice in both examples.

Huseyin

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