texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[john Culleton]

I know that Context Minimals is more up to date than texlive, which is
updated yearly. But texlive when installed on Windows adds a menu
under "programs" that is very handy for beginners. 

I don't have an internet conection for my windows partition. (Some
nonsense about a driver for my ethernet board.) So I ask the question:
when a user downloads Context Minimals on a Windows partition what must
they do to run the programs such as context and mtxrun? Go to a text
console?

I am writing a book about using Context for novels, so my question is
not idle. About 90% of my audience will be using Windows.
-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
Free list of books for self-publishers:
http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html
PDF e-book: "Create Book Covers with Scribus"
available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
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Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[Mari Voipio]

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 3:43 PM, john Culleton <John@wexfordpress.com> wrote:
> when a user downloads Context Minimals on a Windows partition what must
> they do to run the programs such as context and mtxrun? Go to a text
> console?

In Windows it is called Command Prompt, but yes. Unless you also
install a ConTeXt compatible editor like SciTe.

Don't know if TeXLive for Windows contains an editor that works with
the distribution's ConTeXt - in that case it might be a smarter choice
despite being slightly outdated.
I must admit that I haven't tried TeXLive on my Windows machine, I
follow my own advice
(http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Windows_Installation:_ConTeXt_Suite_with_SciTe)
and run ConTeXt Suite with SciTe.

BTW, why minimals and not the full ConTeXt Suite (the one called
earlier standalone)? I mean that if you are prepared to install
TeXLive, this shouldn't be a space issue. Just curious...


Regards,

Mari
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Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[john Culleton]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:26:48 +0300
Mari Voipio <mari.voipio@iki.fi> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 3:43 PM, john Culleton
> <John@wexfordpress.com> wrote:
> > when a user downloads Context Minimals on a Windows partition what
> > must they do to run the programs such as context and mtxrun? Go to
> > a text console?
> 
> In Windows it is called Command Prompt, but yes. Unless you also
> install a ConTeXt compatible editor like SciTe.
> 
> Don't know if TeXLive for Windows contains an editor that works with
> the distribution's ConTeXt - in that case it might be a smarter choice
> despite being slightly outdated.
> I must admit that I haven't tried TeXLive on my Windows machine, I
> follow my own advice
> (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Windows_Installation:_ConTeXt_Suite_with_SciTe)
> and run ConTeXt Suite with SciTe.
> 
> BTW, why minimals and not the full ConTeXt Suite (the one called
> earlier standalone)? I mean that if you are prepared to install
> TeXLive, this shouldn't be a space issue. Just curious...
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mari
> _________________________________________________________________________

I can use the standard context product. Unfortunately for me The
download for windows of either version requires an internet connection
and in Windows I am still fighting that problem. Texlive comes on a
downloadable dvd image. That dvd is OS agnostic. I have loaded it
on Win XP, Win 7  and Slackware linux.

If there were a way to download minimals or the full context suite for
windows as an iso image I would be home free. But fate is not so kind
to me. 

Just fyi TeXlive when installed on Windows also loads a program
submenu, and one of the entries there is texworks. So I can pretty much
insulate my users from dreaded (by some) command line. That was the
reason for my original question.

-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
Free list of books for self-publishers:
http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html
PDF e-book: "Create Book Covers with Scribus"
available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[john Culleton]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 11:40:57 -0400
john Culleton <John@wexfordpress.com> wrote:

> 

Just found a zip file which may contain the full context distro for 
windows. Stay tuned for success/failure notice.

-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
Free list of books for self-publishers:
http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html
PDF e-book: "Create Book Covers with Scribus"
available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[Mari Voipio]

Hello!

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 6:40 PM, john Culleton <John@wexfordpress.com> wrote:
> Just fyi TeXlive when installed on Windows also loads a program
> submenu, and one of the entries there is texworks. So I can pretty much
> insulate my users from dreaded (by some) command line. That was the
> reason for my original question.

If your users are what I call "an average Windows user", I'd go for
TeXLive, assuming the ConteXt there doesn't have some known *major*
flaw in the basic functions. I must admit for my part that I update my
work ConTeXt - i.e. the one in Windows - only every 3-6 months; I just
can't be bothered without a good reason... A complete beginner won't
need any of the newest features, a slightly outdated version ConTeXt
will do fine for teaching the basics.

I've thought that one of the main ideas with TeXLive is to make life
easier for those who don't like spending time tweaking their computer
or just don't have the knowledge required. As the easier option
exists, why not take it. :-)

TeXworks may not be the world's most advanced editor, but good enough
with highlighting and it allows doing everything by clicking as
opposed to using the unfamiliar command line interface. And frankly,
TeXWorks looks more like "Windows" than SciTe, so it is probably a
better choice anyway. On my Mac I prefer TeXShop to TeXWorks, but the
latter is good enough. Besides, I've been using ConTeXt for a long
time, so I know what I like - beginners will take whatever you give
them and make do. The main thing is to make a choice and stick to it,
to avoid additional confusion.

BTW, I'm working on (or this far, thinking hard about) some material
for a *complete* beginner (coming from the world of WYSIWYG) and also
on some on teaching ConTeXt to non-techies, which will be subject of
my talk at this year's ConTeXt meeting. I'll be happy to share all my
material, if it helps!


Regards,

Mari
(who may have to update to get access to the newest SciTe features -
I'm still trying to make up my mind about whether I want them badly
enough to take the risk...)
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[john Culleton]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 12:12:28 -0400
john Culleton <John@wexfordpress.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 11:40:57 -0400
> john Culleton <John@wexfordpress.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> Just found a zip file which may contain the full context distro for 
> windows. Stay tuned for success/failure notice.
> 

Failure. It was just a repackaging of the Windows download and unzip
software.

-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
Free list of books for self-publishers:
http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html
PDF e-book: "Create Book Covers with Scribus"
available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/31/2013 5:40 PM, john Culleton wrote:

> If there were a way to download minimals or the full context suite for
> windows as an iso image I would be home free. But fate is not so kind
> to me.

installing the garden via rsync (one can even be more monimal with an 
initial --engine=luatex install as then successive runs will also only 
download luatex only) is way more efficient than an (uncompressed and 
carrying all engines) iso image each update

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/31/2013 6:15 PM, Mari Voipio wrote:

> TeXworks may not be the world's most advanced editor, but good enough
> with highlighting and it allows doing everything by clicking as
> opposed to using the unfamiliar command line interface. And frankly,
> TeXWorks looks more like "Windows" than SciTe, so it is probably a
> better choice anyway. On my Mac I prefer TeXShop to TeXWorks, but the
> latter is good enough. Besides, I've been using ConTeXt for a long
> time, so I know what I like - beginners will take whatever you give
> them and make do. The main thing is to make a choice and stick to it,
> to avoid additional confusion.

it depends on what you do with context ... texworks is rather tuned to 
latex (and as i don't use it i keep no track of the configurations 
needed for convenient context use), is hard to use with non tex files 
(and i like to use  - in my case scite - for all my editing, not only 
tex, doesn't have the advanced hybrid lexer that we ship for scite, etc

if scite for osx would come with the lpeg lexer plugin i would even be 
willing to use the mac every now and then -)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[john Culleton]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 23:44:30 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> On 8/31/2013 5:40 PM, john Culleton wrote:
> 
> > If there were a way to download minimals or the full context suite
> > for windows as an iso image I would be home free. But fate is not
> > so kind to me.
> 
> installing the garden via rsync (one can even be more monimal with an 
> initial --engine=luatex install as then successive runs will also
> only download luatex only) is way more efficient than an
> (uncompressed and carrying all engines) iso image each update
> 
> Hans
> 
> 

In the general case, affecting 99.9% of Context users that is the best
strategy. I am however caught in an unusual situation. I have two
computers at my work station, both Syx (Systemax) computers and both
delivered without any OS. I installed Linux on both and they work just
fine. When I install Windows XP or Windows 7 on either machine there is
a problem with the ethernet connection. But my projected customer base
is likely of the Windows persuasion. 

Turning now to my template design, it is easiest for me if I use plain
instead of either Context or Latex formats. Luatex would be an ideal
candidate but for one thing. In pdftex and Context one can
set protrusion at a large or a smaller amount. The large version
is too large for a novel. However luatex hasn't advanced that far. I
assume that it will one day and that an updated version of luatex will
show up in your distros long before texlive is updated. 

In the meantime I am beating at the virtual doors of the support
people for Systemax looking for the correct Windows driver for ethernet.

Perhaps the protrusion problem has already been solved in your
latest luatex. I will check it out on my (linux) version of Context
standard. If not I will retreat to pdftex (gasp) for my template.
Protrusion and microtypography are two advantages of TeX and InDesign
for the novel writer. I need to be able to demonstrate those advantages
when offering my template.

As a reminder: I don't have a problem with documents I create here. I am
a bit fiddler from way back. It is the potential users of my templating
system that I am concerned about. Telling them that they must modify a
file buried in the innards of TeX is a bridge too far. 

-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
Free list of books for self-publishers:
http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html
PDF e-book: "Create Book Covers with Scribus"
available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: texlive vs. Context minimal on Windows

[Hans Hagen]

On 9/1/2013 6:56 PM, john Culleton wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 23:44:30 +0200
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/2013 5:40 PM, john Culleton wrote:
>>
>>> If there were a way to download minimals or the full context suite
>>> for windows as an iso image I would be home free. But fate is not
>>> so kind to me.
>>
>> installing the garden via rsync (one can even be more monimal with an
>> initial --engine=luatex install as then successive runs will also
>> only download luatex only) is way more efficient than an
>> (uncompressed and carrying all engines) iso image each update
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>
>
> In the general case, affecting 99.9% of Context users that is the best
> strategy. I am however caught in an unusual situation. I have two
> computers at my work station, both Syx (Systemax) computers and both
> delivered without any OS. I installed Linux on both and they work just
> fine. When I install Windows XP or Windows 7 on either machine there is
> a problem with the ethernet connection. But my projected customer base
> is likely of the Windows persuasion.

imo changing your workflow because of crappy hardware is a bad idea 
(it's hard to find a motherboard with an ethernet device on it that os 
so broken that windows won't work)

> Perhaps the protrusion problem has already been solved in your
> latest luatex. I will check it out on my (linux) version of Context
> standard. If not I will retreat to pdftex (gasp) for my template.
> Protrusion and microtypography are two advantages of TeX and InDesign
> for the novel writer. I need to be able to demonstrate those advantages
> when offering my template.

i'm not aware of problems with protrusion (not much changed in the 
implementation)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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