[***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[hwitloc]

I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.

Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?

Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?

Cheers
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Hans Hagen]

On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.
>
> Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?
>
> Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?

- the natural tables will stay (but frozen
- you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable
- xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without sacrificing 
speed
- xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[hwitloc]

Thanks for the explanation.  
Providing the mapping feature with  \mapTABLEtoxtabl  and \restoreTABLEfromxtable 
was a very good choice.

Cheers

Hans Hagen  wrote:

> On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.
> >
> > Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?
> >
> > Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?
> 
> - the natural tables will stay (but frozen
> - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable
> - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without
> sacrificing speed
> - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit
> 
> Hans
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 08.09.2013 um 02:33 schrieb hwitloc@gmail.com:

> 
> Thanks for the explanation.  
> Providing the mapping feature with  \mapTABLEtoxtabl  and \restoreTABLEfromxtable 
> was a very good choice.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
>> On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.
>>> 
>>> Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?
>>> 
>>> Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?
>> 
>> - the natural tables will stay (but frozen
>> - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable
>> - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without
>> sacrificing speed
>> - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit

Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

Wolfgang
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[hwitloc]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
> because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.
> 
> Wolfgang

Yes, I was need to set the height and width of cells as well as turn on and off top/bottom, left/right cell frames.  Is this functionality covered in extreme tables?

When you write "certain rows and colums" do you mean certain settings for rows and columns?

If some functions are missing, I assume that they will be added in the future.  Is this assumption correct?

Regards

 
> Am 08.09.2013 um 02:33 schrieb hwitloc:
> 
> > 
> > Thanks for the explanation.  
> > Providing the mapping feature with  \mapTABLEtoxtabl  and \restoreTABLEfromxtable 
> > was a very good choice.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > Hans Hagen  wrote:
> > 
> >> On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc
> >>> 
> >>> I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.
> >>> 
> >>> Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?
> >>> 
> >>> Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?
> >> 
> >> - the natural tables will stay (but frozen
> >> - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable
> >> - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without
> >> sacrificing speed
> >> - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit
> 
> Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
> because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.
> 
> Wolfgang
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Hans Hagen]

On 9/8/2013 2:17 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
> Am 08.09.2013 um 02:33 schrieb hwitloc@gmail.com:
>
>>
>> Thanks for the explanation.
>> Providing the mapping feature with  \mapTABLEtoxtabl  and \restoreTABLEfromxtable
>> was a very good choice.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.
>>>>
>>>> Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?
>>>>
>>>> Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?
>>>
>>> - the natural tables will stay (but frozen
>>> - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable
>>> - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without
>>> sacrificing speed
>>> - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit
>
> Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
> because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

in TABLE that is both flexible and a slow-downer but in xtreme table we 
have named cells, rows, cellgroups, rowgroups (also a bit better 
abstraction and fits nicely in the setup handler; in TABLE is boils down 
to storing the setup and reparsing)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Hans Hagen]

On 9/8/2013 4:41 PM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:

> Yes, I was need to set the height and width of cells as well as turn on and off top/bottom, left/right cell frames.  Is this functionality covered in extreme tables?

you can still do that but with either explicit settings or with symbolic 
references to settings

> When you write "certain rows and colums" do you mean certain settings for rows and columns?

you can have named rows/columns

> If some functions are missing, I assume that they will be added in the future.  Is this assumption correct?

it is *not* a replacement for TABLE in the sense that not all 
functionality is the same; there might however be more functionality in 
xtreme tables

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 08.09.2013 um 17:02 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

>> Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
>> because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.
> 
> in TABLE that is both flexible and a slow-downer but in xtreme table we have named cells, rows, cellgroups, rowgroups (also a bit better abstraction and fits nicely in the setup handler; in TABLE is boils down to storing the setup and reprising)

Can you at least add a command to access the current row/column (e.g. \currentxtablerow and \curentxtablecolumn), this way one can use metapost to create special background (e.g. different colors for odd/even rows) without manual tagging each row.

Wolfgang
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Hans Hagen]

On 9/8/2013 5:50 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
> Am 08.09.2013 um 17:02 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>
>>> Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
>>> because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.
>>
>> in TABLE that is both flexible and a slow-downer but in xtreme table we have named cells, rows, cellgroups, rowgroups (also a bit better abstraction and fits nicely in the setup handler; in TABLE is boils down to storing the setup and reprising)
>
> Can you at least add a command to access the current row/column (e.g. \currentxtablerow and \curentxtablecolumn), this way one can use metapost to create special background (e.g. different colors for odd/even rows) without manual tagging each row.

ok


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.]

Hello,

just one user's point of view:

There are many table-creating commands.

Some of them are deprecated and only supported for backward compatibility.

It seemed to me till now that natural tables (provided by \...TABLE... commands) were best choice as they are versatile, they have friendly setup, they may be split over more pages (with repeating header/footer) and (almost each feature) may be specified individually for row, column or even cell.

It seemed to that nothing more user might wish.

(And - as "more complicated", i.e. more typing to enter them, Lua helps in this situation.)

Now, we have xtables which have the same functionality as TABLEs, or a bit more.
But - (?) xtables have a bit "poorer" setup options (so far? - By Wolfgang's answer).

> Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
> because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

> Wolfgang

The "more" is - named cells? Faster rendering?

IMHO - wouldn't be better to extend TABLEs to be as good as xtables (i.e. - add named cells)?

Or to unify xtables and TABLEs - make xtables and TABLEs have the same functionality and options, and make their names/commands synonyms?

- When I started using Ctx, there were so many tabling commands and I always had to compare their possibilities to select one; and to check whether the chosen "tabler" is not deprecated.

So I ended up with TABLEs (and Lua).

Now, it seems to me that TABLEs will become deprecated, being replaced with xtables...

Best regards,

Lukas


On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:04:21 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> On 9/8/2013 4:41 PM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Yes, I was need to set the height and width of cells as well as turn on and off top/bottom, left/right cell frames.  Is this functionality covered in extreme tables?
>
> you can still do that but with either explicit settings or with symbolic
> references to settings
>
>> When you write "certain rows and colums" do you mean certain settings for rows and columns?
>
> you can have named rows/columns
>
>> If some functions are missing, I assume that they will be added in the future.  Is this assumption correct?
>
> it is *not* a replacement for TABLE in the sense that not all
> functionality is the same; there might however be more functionality in
> xtreme tables
>
> Hans


-- 
Ing. Lukáš Procházka [mailto:LPr@pontex.cz]
Pontex s. r. o.      [mailto:pontex@pontex.cz] [http://www.pontex.cz]
Bezová 1658
147 14 Praha 4

Tel: +420 244 062 238
Fax: +420 244 461 038

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Re: [***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

[Hans Hagen]

On 9/9/2013 9:13 AM, Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o. wrote:
> Hello,
>
> just one user's point of view:
>
> There are many table-creating commands.
>
> Some of them are deprecated and only supported for backward compatibility.

they are not deprecated at all

- table: a rather traditional, close to tex alignment mechanism
- tabulate: quite good for text, breaks across pages nicely, i use that 
one myself most of the time (i might redo it one time)
- TABLE: to some extend html compatible, originally meant for uise in 
combination with xml, but also useable in tex (somewhat slow)
- xtable: a follow up on TABLE (with some strong points but also some 
limitations)

> It seemed to me till now that natural tables (provided by \...TABLE...
> commands) were best choice as they are versatile, they have friendly
> setup, they may be split over more pages (with repeating header/footer)
> and (almost each feature) may be specified individually for row, column
> or even cell.
>
> It seemed to that nothing more user might wish.

i must admit that i only use it in combination with xml -)

> (And - as "more complicated", i.e. more typing to enter them, Lua helps
> in this situation.)
>
> Now, we have xtables which have the same functionality as TABLEs, or a
> bit more.
> But - (?) xtables have a bit "poorer" setup options (so far? - By
> Wolfgang's answer).

hm, in fact the configuration options are better; it doesn't have the 
x,y setup but named rows, cells and row/cellgroups are quite ok

>> Do you plan to add something equivalent to
>> \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>]
>> because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

not on the agenda (one can use symbolic names of setups which is more 
powerful that hard coded numbers)

>> Wolfgang
>
> The "more" is - named cells? Faster rendering?
>
> IMHO - wouldn't be better to extend TABLEs to be as good as xtables
> (i.e. - add named cells)?

no, as it would be even slower .. i also tend not to touch TABLE to much 
as it is used in workflows that demand stability

> Or to unify xtables and TABLEs - make xtables and TABLEs have the same
> functionality and options, and make their names/commands synonyms?
>
> - When I started using Ctx, there were so many tabling commands and I
> always had to compare their possibilities to select one; and to check
> whether the chosen "tabler" is not deprecated.
>
> So I ended up with TABLEs (and Lua).
>
> Now, it seems to me that TABLEs will become deprecated, being replaced
> with xtables...

it will never be deprecated but i might have missed an announcement -)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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