From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/85255 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: announcement and call Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:13 +0100 Message-ID: <52860E35.5080301@wxs.nl> References: <5284D95B.1070602@uni-bonn.de> <20131114204020.GA10496@phlegethon> <528538B7.8010307@uni-bonn.de> <247FFAEB-F286-4968-823D-34ACFE7569A1@uni-trier.de> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1384517175 16720 80.91.229.3 (15 Nov 2013 12:06:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:06:15 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Nov 15 13:06:21 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VhIAH-0006iq-0V for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD37101FF; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:20 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 7CGbDV81Lk62; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:17 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7463101FB; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:17 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B586101FB for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:16 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id tUCg9x0akFlj for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:15 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter5-til.mf.surf.net (filter5-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.221]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079DF101F0 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:14 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from smtp.ziggozakelijk.nl (D57D1DA2.static.ziggozakelijk.nl [213.125.29.162]) by filter5-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id rAFC6EGg027163 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:14 +0100 X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=10.100.1.103; Original-Received: from [10.100.1.103] (unverified [10.100.1.103]) by pragma-net.nl (SurgeMail 6.3c2) with ESMTP id 281-1713362 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:06:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 In-Reply-To: <247FFAEB-F286-4968-823D-34ACFE7569A1@uni-trier.de> X-Authenticated-User: hagen@controller-9 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=213.125.29.162; country=NL; region=15; city=Zwolle; latitude=52.5058; longitude=6.0858; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5058,6.0858&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0WKNM6eX8 - b4e9f3b9ff5e - 20131115 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.221 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:85255 Archived-At: On 11/15/2013 11:31 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > > Am 14.11.2013 um 21:55 schrieb Thomas A. Schmitz : > >> On 11/14/2013 09:40 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote: >>> What I=92d consider the most pressing issue, pertaining both to >>> Context and to TeX as a whole, would be text streams a.k.a. >>> parallel typesetting. It was discussed on the list a couple times >>> already and at one point someone collected examples [1]. Also, I >>> sketched the current state of parallel texts elsewhere [2]. >> >> For certain values of "pressing" :-) Two pessimistic remarks about that:= (1) I experimented with a mechanism that Hans build for mkii a while ago, = and I found it difficult to decide how to define what was expected of paral= lel typesetting. In the end, I wasn't convinced that an entirely automated = version was possible at all. (2) I'm afraid that's not part of the present = project and is related neither to critical editions nor to bibliographies. > > I have to strongly disagree with you here. A critical edition is only a s= pecialized case of parallel texts! You two or more editions that are contra= sted/compared to each other. > Naturally, it must be bibliographically annotated and there are the comme= nts of the author of the critical edition. > > The editions have to be typeset in parallel. There are many ways how an = author can lay this out. In the far past it was common just to stack the co= ntrasted versions on top of > each other! Very very ugly. Lots of examples in libraries. More recent wa= ys are to use column. Yet, the more editions involved the harder it is to p= lace on one page. For such cases > it would be best to spread them across two facing pages. > > The problem with the two page setup is synchronizing the comments, notes,= discussion of the critical edition's author. For a half way pleasing layou= t these should interplaced between the contrasted editions across the two p= ages. Yes, not an easy task. a lot depends on proper coding ... typesetting parallel texts is not per = se the same as multiple streams ... it all depends on what one wants to = achieve also, if > 1 page is used then we should not limit to 2 pages (or = columns) in parallel > I agree that it is hard to automate the synchronization of text passages.= The only viable approach would be at the paragraph level. A line level app= roach can only be achieved by > interaction of the author of the critical edition with synchronization ma= rks of some sort inside the editions. indeed. one cannot have the best of all worlds (perfect justification, = perfect note handling, perfect synchronization) because the solition = space gets too small (one thing Thomas and I discussed shortly is more advanced pdf's with = more embedded info and so ... something for later) we also need to look into ebook like things ... > Early, in my education in Computer Linguistics, decades ago, we had proje= ct where we wrote a program for entry of critical editions. The editions/te= xts and comments were > entered in parallel on the tty-terminal screen and stored in a database. = At that time we where no interested in fancy output and used a simple stack= ed output. > > As you probably know yourself, it is the entry and synchronization of the= editions that is the problem an not as much the layout itself, though tha= t is hard enough by itself. > I do not see any way to do this in a normal linear single pass process. T= he question is in how far ConTeXt can support this task. > ... time, motivation, etc ... > I have just a brain stormed possible starting point. It as you can see it= has quite some felixiblity as to how the texts > is entered and ConTeXt does some rearranging during typesetting. > > One type of critical edition we have not discussed is when the author wha= ts to work on a word basis. But, that is even a bigger can > of worms for collating the data/texts. > > Most of what I have describe it probably obvious to you, yet well, keep collecting demands and examples ... best that we know what is = needed (and by how many people, for how many years to come, as it makes = no sense to develop code that is used once and then discarded because = one moves to newer technologies) ... we also need to keep in mind that this kind of things are author driven = as publishers are not paying for this kind of things nor willing to = invest / support development of tools (if they are interested in = anything else than 25-50% profits at all). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________