two question on ConTeXt terminology

two question on ConTeXt terminology

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Dear list,

I’m writing a document on ConTeXt and I have two questions on
terminology. As I have been using LaTeX over a decade, I don’t know
whether my descriptions are accurate in ConTeXt.

Don’t worry, My questions are extremely basic ;-).

What is the name for the part of the document that comes before
\starttext? The ConTeXt manual seems to use preamble, but I would like
to confirm this use.

The other question is more tricky. Or at least I don’t find an obvious
answer. Which is the correct expression to name any
\start...-\stop....structure? Environment would be the LaTeX term, but
this is reserved in ConTeXt.

Many thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: two question on ConTeXt terminology

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/2/2014 9:44 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> I’m writing a document on ConTeXt and I have two questions on
> terminology. As I have been using LaTeX over a decade, I don’t know
> whether my descriptions are accurate in ConTeXt.
>
> Don’t worry, My questions are extremely basic ;-).
>
> What is the name for the part of the document that comes before
> \starttext? The ConTeXt manual seems to use preamble, but I would like
> to confirm this use.

preamble is fine (one can also speak of source header, but i think 
preamble is better) ... anything after \stoptext is ignored so that 
would be 'comment'

> The other question is more tricky. Or at least I don’t find an obvious
> answer. Which is the correct expression to name any
> \start...-\stop....structure? Environment would be the LaTeX term, but
> this is reserved in ConTeXt.

(structure) element is fine (also in sync with xml begin/end)

> Many thanks for your help,

Hans

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Re: two questions on ConTeXt terminology

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 02/02/2014 10:30 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 2/2/2014 9:44 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> [...]
>> The other question is more tricky. Or at least I don’t find an obvious
>> answer. Which is the correct expression to name any
>> \start...-\stop....structure? Environment would be the LaTeX term, but
>> this is reserved in ConTeXt.
> 
> (structure) element is fine (also in sync with xml begin/end)

Many thanks for your reply, Hans.

I’m not sure whether structure element is too generic.

But I will think about it.

Many thanks for your help again,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: two questions on ConTeXt terminology

[Keith J. Schultz]

Hi Pablo,

The start/stop mechanism in ConTeXt is not easy to relate to LaTeX.

As the name indicates it means "start/stop doing 'something' "!

This "something" can be either equivalent to "Command" or "Enviroment"
in LaTeX.

e.g: 
\startbuffer
...
\stopbuffer

starts storing "things" in a buffer(aka. Variable). This would be simailar
to "command" as you can access the buffer with \getbuffer and \putbuffer.
Of course one could argue that it is actually like an LaTeX environment that has
a side effect of setting a variable for later use. 

On the other side you have \starttable \stoptable which one would put in the realm of
LaTeX-environments.

One can practically, use the start/stop mechanism almost anything you define.


Depending on the paradigm that you use structure (and/or) element would be appropriate!
That is is a program source the definition of a function/procedure/method is a
structure/element of the program. Structure element is not necessarily reserved for
data structures!!

Just my two cents worth.

Hope this helps

regards
	Keith. 




Am 02.02.2014 um 23:19 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:

> On 02/02/2014 10:30 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 2/2/2014 9:44 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> The other question is more tricky. Or at least I don’t find an obvious
>>> answer. Which is the correct expression to name any
>>> \start...-\stop....structure? Environment would be the LaTeX term, but
>>> this is reserved in ConTeXt.
>> 
>> (structure) element is fine (also in sync with xml begin/end)
> 
> Many thanks for your reply, Hans.
> 
> I’m not sure whether structure element is too generic.
> 
> But I will think about it.
> 

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: two questions on ConTeXt terminology

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Maybe use „container“, since \start \stop is just like { }.

Greetlings, Hraban
---
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Re: two questions on ConTeXt terminology

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Hi Keith,

many thanks for your explanation.

I cannot see the “structural” difference ;-) between the start/stop and
the begin/end pairs.

But I think structure is fine. Structural element seems too complex to me.

Many thanks for your help again,

Pablo


 On 02/03/2014 10:07 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
> Hi Pablo,
> 
> The start/stop mechanism in ConTeXt is not easy to relate to LaTeX.
> 
> As the name indicates it means "start/stop doing 'something' "!
> 
> This "something" can be either equivalent to "Command" or "Enviroment"
> in LaTeX.
> 
> e.g: 
> \startbuffer
> ...
> \stopbuffer
> 
> starts storing "things" in a buffer(aka. Variable). This would be simailar
> to "command" as you can access the buffer with \getbuffer and \putbuffer.
> Of course one could argue that it is actually like an LaTeX environment that has
> a side effect of setting a variable for later use. 
> 
> On the other side you have \starttable \stoptable which one would put in the realm of
> LaTeX-environments.
> 
> One can practically, use the start/stop mechanism almost anything you define.
> 
> 
> Depending on the paradigm that you use structure (and/or) element would be appropriate!
> That is is a program source the definition of a function/procedure/method is a
> structure/element of the program. Structure element is not necessarily reserved for
> data structures!!
> 
> Just my two cents worth.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> regards
> 	Keith. 


-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: two questions on ConTeXt terminology

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 02/03/2014 02:33 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Maybe use „container“, since \start \stop is just like { }.

Many thanks for your reply, Hraban.

“Containner” seems to generic to me. I meant any \startx \stopx structure.

Many thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: two questions on ConTeXt terminology

[Keith J. Schultz]

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Hi Pablo,

Like I mentioned it depends of the paradigm one uses or to be more 
expressive: the meta level of discussion.

To All: please excuse the use of buzz words in the following.

The start/stop mechanism has a different semio-syntactic usage depending on the
context (not ConTeXt) it is used in.

It can be used for :
	1) do command 

	2) usage of format or element

	3) set a variable as in start/stopbuffer

 This different semantic usage is somewhat unfortunate, but has the advantage of keeping
the instruction set(syntax) of ConTeXt simple!

The best nomenclature would be entity, but that is not easy to understand for the average joe and jane.

On the other side the start/stop mechanism can be seen, in terms of OO, a method that is applied to a object
that is passed to. This method is dynamic in that it calls other methods depending of the type of object passed.
So we are in the middle of the dynamic OO-programming.
If you wish it is a method that is overloaded.

Note to Hans, Wolfgang, et al: I realize that it is not implemented as above, but it does reflect the basic concept,
                                                      to my knowledge and its usage in ConTeXt. 

Start/stop is a mechanism that is applied to an element, object, entity. Depending on the Enity used with it the semantics
of the mechanism is different.

So it boils down to the fact what kind of audience you are addressing and what level of knowledge  you expect them to have!

If you care to discuss this topic more in depth we can go off list.

regards
	Keith
                     

Am 03.02.2014 um 20:35 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:

> Hi Keith,
> 
> many thanks for your explanation.
> 
> I cannot see the “structural” difference ;-) between the start/stop and
> the begin/end pairs.
> 
> But I think structure is fine. Structural element seems too complex to me.
> 
> Many thanks for your help again,
> 
> Pablo
> 
> 
> On 02/03/2014 10:07 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>> Hi Pablo,
>> 
>> The start/stop mechanism in ConTeXt is not easy to relate to LaTeX.
>> 
>> As the name indicates it means "start/stop doing 'something' "!
>> 
>> This "something" can be either equivalent to "Command" or "Enviroment"
>> in LaTeX.
>> 
>> e.g: 
>> \startbuffer
>> ...
>> \stopbuffer
>> 
>> starts storing "things" in a buffer(aka. Variable). This would be simailar
>> to "command" as you can access the buffer with \getbuffer and \putbuffer.
>> Of course one could argue that it is actually like an LaTeX environment that has
>> a side effect of setting a variable for later use. 
>> 
>> On the other side you have \starttable \stoptable which one would put in the realm of
>> LaTeX-environments.
>> 
>> One can practically, use the start/stop mechanism almost anything you define.
>> 
>> 
>> Depending on the paradigm that you use structure (and/or) element would be appropriate!
>> That is is a program source the definition of a function/procedure/method is a
>> structure/element of the program. Structure element is not necessarily reserved for
>> data structures!!
>> 
>> Just my two cents worth.
>> 
>> Hope this helps
>> 
>> regards
>> 	Keith. 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.ousia.tk
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: two questions on ConTeXt terminology

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Hi Keith,

many thanks for your explanation.

Now I understand why start/stop in ConTeXt and begin/end in LaTeXt may
be different.

The audience I intend to address is people that can use a word
processor. The less technical the details are, the easier would be the
explanation to be understood.

Many thanks again for your help,


Pablo



On 02/04/2014 10:01 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
> Hi Pablo,
> 
> Like I mentioned it depends of the paradigm one uses or to be more 
> expressive: the meta level of discussion.
> 
> To All: please excuse the use of buzz words in the following.
> 
> The start/stop mechanism has a different semio-syntactic usage depending
> on the
> context (not ConTeXt) it is used in.
> 
> It can be used for :
> 1) do command 
> 
> 2) usage of format or element
> 
> 3) set a variable as in start/stopbuffer
> 
>  This different semantic usage is somewhat unfortunate, but has the
> advantage of keeping
> the instruction set(syntax) of ConTeXt simple!
> 
> The best nomenclature would be entity, but that is not easy to
> understand for the average joe and jane.
> 
> On the other side the start/stop mechanism can be seen, in terms of OO,
> a method that is applied to a object
> that is passed to. This method is dynamic in that it calls other methods
> depending of the type of object passed.
> So we are in the middle of the dynamic OO-programming.
> If you wish it is a method that is overloaded.
> 
> Note to Hans, Wolfgang, et al: I realize that it is not implemented as
> above, but it does reflect the basic concept,
>                                                       to my knowledge
> and its usage in ConTeXt. 
> 
> Start/stop is a mechanism that is applied to an element, object, entity.
> Depending on the Enity used with it the semantics
> of the mechanism is different.
> 
> So it boils down to the fact what kind of audience you are addressing
> and what level of knowledge  you expect them to have!
> 
> If you care to discuss this topic more in depth we can go off list.
> 
> regards
> Keith

-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________