issues with greeknumerals

issues with greeknumerals

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Dear list,

I have the following sample:

    \definestructureconversionset[cs][0,Greeknumerals,greeknumerals][n]
    \setupheads[sectionconversionset=cs]
    \setupinteraction[state=start]
    \placebookmarks[chapter, section]
    \starttext

    \dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Chapter}
    \section{Section}}

    \stoptext

I cannot get either Greeknumerals or greeknumerals working in PDF
bookmarks.

And greeknumerals don’t show numbering in text.

Am I missing something or is this a bug?

Many thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.04.2014 um 20:45 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:

> Dear list,
> 
> I have the following sample:
> 
>    \definestructureconversionset[cs][0,Greeknumerals,greeknumerals][n]
>    \setupheads[sectionconversionset=cs]
>    \setupinteraction[state=start]
>    \placebookmarks[chapter, section]
>    \starttext
> 
>    \dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Chapter}
>    \section{Section}}
> 
>    \stoptext
> 
> I cannot get either Greeknumerals or greeknumerals working in PDF
> bookmarks.

\defineconversionset[cs][n,G,g][n]

> And greeknumerals don’t show numbering in text.

You need a font with greek letters.

Wolfgang
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Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 04/07/2014 08:59 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 07.04.2014 um 20:45 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
>> [...]
>> I cannot get either Greeknumerals or greeknumerals working in PDF
>> bookmarks.
> 
> \defineconversionset[cs][n,G,g][n]

Many thanks for your help, Wolfgang.

Since Romannumerals and romannumerals (or Characters and characters) are
required, I thought it would be consistent to use Greeknumerals and
greeknumerals. But I was obviously wrong.

>> And greeknumerals don’t show numbering in text.
> 
> You need a font with greek letters.

Of course, you’re right. This was a very basic mistake.

I was misled by the fact that Latin Modern has uppercase Greek letters.

Many thanks again for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.04.2014 um 21:18 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:

> On 04/07/2014 08:59 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Am 07.04.2014 um 20:45 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
>>> [...]
>>> I cannot get either Greeknumerals or greeknumerals working in PDF
>>> bookmarks.
>> 
>> \defineconversionset[cs][n,G,g][n]
> 
> Many thanks for your help, Wolfgang.
> 
> Since Romannumerals and romannumerals (or Characters and characters) are
> required, I thought it would be consistent to use Greeknumerals and
> greeknumerals. But I was obviously wrong.

This could be a bug because there shouldn’t be a difference between the two conversion names.

Wolfgang
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Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Otared Kavian]

On 7 avr. 2014, at 21:25, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Am 07.04.2014 um 21:18 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:
> […]
>> 
>> Since Romannumerals and romannumerals (or Characters and characters) are
>> required, I thought it would be consistent to use Greeknumerals and
>> greeknumerals. But I was obviously wrong.
> 
> This could be a bug because there shouldn’t be a difference between the two conversion names.

Maybe not, since Roman numerals i, ii, iii, iv, etc correspond really to the way Romans used to write numbers, while Greek numerals \alpha, \beta, \gamma, \delta, etc are rather our modern way of numbering items, analogous to the case one would say a), b), c), d) etc. 
Would Thomas Schmitz give us some insight?

Best regards: OK
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Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Schmitz Thomas A.]

On 07 Apr 2014, at 23:24, Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe not, since Roman numerals i, ii, iii, iv, etc correspond really to the way Romans used to write numbers, while Greek numerals \alpha, \beta, \gamma, \delta, etc are rather our modern way of numbering items, analogous to the case one would say a), b), c), d) etc. 
> Would Thomas Schmitz give us some insight?

In fact, I was wondering what “Greeknumerals” would translate to. The most common system used in antiquity is the “Milesian” system: α=1, β=2 etc., but 6 is expressed by ς; ι=10; ρ=100, with two archaic letters as 90 and 900; this is used in most papyri. There are other systems in use (especially in inscriptions), they involve special characters which most fonts don’t have. The simple system α=1 up to ω=24 is used to number the books in the Homeric epics, so it also has ancient precedents. If we want to be nitpicking, it shouldn’t be called “Greeknumerals,” but rather “Greekalphanumericalconversion,” which sounds like a really snappy, memorable way to express it, don’t you agree?

So: this is just the historical and philological aspect, Greeknumerals will make sense to most users.

All best

Thomas
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Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.04.2014 um 23:24 schrieb Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com>:

> On 7 avr. 2014, at 21:25, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Am 07.04.2014 um 21:18 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:
>> […]
>>> 
>>> Since Romannumerals and romannumerals (or Characters and characters) are
>>> required, I thought it would be consistent to use Greeknumerals and
>>> greeknumerals. But I was obviously wrong.
>> 
>> This could be a bug because there shouldn’t be a difference between the two conversion names.
> 
> Maybe not, since Roman numerals i, ii, iii, iv, etc correspond really to the way Romans used to write numbers, while Greek numerals \alpha, \beta, \gamma, \delta, etc are rather our modern way of numbering items, analogous to the case one would say a), b), c), d) etc. 

I’m speaking about the different results when you use “G” or “Greeknumerals” as name for the conversion in \defineconversionset, while the first works in bookmarks the second doesn’t work even though there is no difference between both names.

Wolfgang
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Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Otared Kavian]

Thanks Thomas and Wolfgang for your attention.

Actually the issue with the name of conversions exist also with Persiannumerals, which in ConTeXt results in the so called « Abjad numerals », instead of resulting in the use of Persian digits (or Eastern Arabic digits).

Best regards: OK

On 8 avr. 2014, at 05:09, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Am 07.04.2014 um 23:24 schrieb Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com>:
> 
>> On 7 avr. 2014, at 21:25, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 07.04.2014 um 21:18 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:
>>> […]
>>>> 
>>>> Since Romannumerals and romannumerals (or Characters and characters) are
>>>> required, I thought it would be consistent to use Greeknumerals and
>>>> greeknumerals. But I was obviously wrong.
>>> 
>>> This could be a bug because there shouldn’t be a difference between the two conversion names.
>> 
>> Maybe not, since Roman numerals i, ii, iii, iv, etc correspond really to the way Romans used to write numbers, while Greek numerals \alpha, \beta, \gamma, \delta, etc are rather our modern way of numbering items, analogous to the case one would say a), b), c), d) etc. 
> 
> I’m speaking about the different results when you use “G” or “Greeknumerals” as name for the conversion in \defineconversionset, while the first works in bookmarks the second doesn’t work even though there is no difference between both names.
> 
> Wolfgang
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: issues with greeknumerals

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 04/08/2014 05:09 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> [...]
> I’m speaking about the different results when you use “G” or
> “Greeknumerals” as name for the conversion in \defineconversionset,
> while the first works in bookmarks the second doesn’t work even though
> there is no difference between both names.

Many thanks, Wolfgang, Otared and Thomas, for your replies.

As a user I don’t understand why \defineconversionset needs complete
names for some numerals and initials for others. And this is only
required for PDF bookmarks, since everything else works fine.

Here you have an example which shows the original issue:

  \defineconversionset[cs][0,Romannumerals,Characters,n,g][n]

PDF bookmarks wouldn’t work with initials only:

  \defineconversionset[cs][0,I,a,n,g][n]

You are the experts: wouldn’t it be easier that PDF bookmarks would
accept both intials and full names? The required mixture isn’t easier
for users.

Many thanks for your help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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