Re: newbie questions

Re: newbie questions

[Joan & Gary]

Interested in computer typesetting a Bible.

Sent from my iPad
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Re: newbie questions

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/15/2014 3:40 PM, Joan & Gary wrote:
> Interested in computer typesetting a Bible.

You mean: can that be done? Sure.

Hans


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newbie questions

[Sanja C.]

Hi ConTeXt community.

While looking for free (preferably open-source) tools which I could use for 
typesetting a planned internal newsletter-booklet for a non-profit organization 
(to be released in printed form in regular intervals - each issue with new 
content of course, but same/similar style), I came across ConTeXt.

I usually use Inkscape and various WYSIWYG word processing software for 
designing and layouting flyers/leaflets/etc., but in this case (many pages, 
varying and regularly updated content, consistent style) I'm afraid those tools 
simply don't cut in in terms of professional-quality typesetting capabilities 
and content//style separation.

So programmatic typesetting might be the answer. I thought of LaTeX first, but I 
read from various sources that using ConTeXt might be easier for typesetting 
book-like things, especially if you want to design your own styles.

Before I delve in deeper, though, I would like to ask you (the ConTeXt 
community) some questions:

a) Is the ConTeXt project alive? The newest PDF documentation I could find seems 
to be from 2007; most of it is dated 2003 or older.

b) Do you think that ConTeXt is an appropriate tool for the use case I described 
(be honest please ;-)), and easy enough to learn for someone with almost no TeX 
experience?
The requirements are:
  - Support for elaborate, colorful, graphics-heavy design, which I would 
preferably create in Inkscape and then export as vector graphics (or port to 
ConTeXt's own graphics language) as necessary.
 - Ability to write a style *once* (with reasonable effort), and "outsource" it 
to an external file (or files), so that for each new release of the newsletter, 
only a simple content TeX file (or files) with minimal amount of markup is 
required (which e.g. even a non-tech-savvy writer/editor could edit)
 - Ability to easily include pictures in the content, and let the typesetting 
engine automatically position them (either in the main text area with text 
floating around them, or in special margin areas).

c) Are there any full-featured examples of design-heavy booklets/magazines/etc 
created with ConTeXt., for which the full source code is publicly available? 
That would be *really* helpful in order to assess how much work would be 
required, and also to learn how exactly it's done in practice.

Thanks!

  Sanja C.

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Re: newbie questions

[Marco]

On 2011-05-31 "Sanja C." <sanjac@rocketmail.com> wrote:

> a) Is the ConTeXt project alive?

Yes

> The newest  PDF documentation I  could find seems  to be
> from 2007; most of it is dated 2003 or older.

http://pmrb.free.fr/contextref.pdf is from 2011-03-25

> b) Do you think that  ConTeXt is an appropriate tool for
> the  use case  I  described (be  honest please  ;-)),and
> easy  enough  to  learn   for  someone  with  almost  no
> TeX  experience? The  requirements  are:  - Support  for
> elaborate,  colorful,  graphics-heavy  design,  which  I
> would preferably  create in Inkscape and  then export as
> vector  graphics  (or  port to  ConTeXt's  own  graphics
> language) as necessary.

Context is  well suited for good  typography and technical
graphics. It's  maybe not  the perfect  tool for  DTP like
magazines with very fancy  layout. However it's no problem
to  include the  graphics you  create with  inkscape, etc.

Check
http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/metafun-s.pdf
for graphics related stuff.

>  -  Ability to  write  a style  *once* (with  reasonable
> effort),  and "outsource"  it  to an  external file  (or
> files), so that for each  new release of the newsletter,
> only a simple  content TeX file (or  files) with minimal
> amount  of  markup  is   required  (which  e.g.  even  a
> non-tech-savvy writer/editor could edit)

Yes

>  - Ability  to easily  include pictures in  the content,
> and  let the  typesetting engine  automatically position
> them (either  in the main  text area with  text floating
> around them, or in special margin areas).

Yes

> c) Are there any  full-featured examples of design-heavy
> booklets/magazines/etc created with  ConTeXt., for which
> the full source code is publicly available?

I don't know about magazines created with ConTeXt. But you
can check the manuals at

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Official_ConTeXt_Documentation

there's also a link to the sources.

Marco


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Re: newbie questions

[Pontus Lurcock]

On Tue 31 May 2011, Sanja C. wrote:

> a) Is the ConTeXt project alive? The newest PDF documentation I
> could find seems to be from 2007; most of it is dated 2003 or older.

Very much alive! See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Release_Notes for a
list of recent releases (though betas come along much more
frequently). While the documentation is voluminous it can be hard to
navigate -- my order of searching tends to be wiki, manuals, mailing
list. The old reference manual is indeed a little dated, but there's a
new one under development at
http://foundry.supelec.fr/gf/project/contextman/scmsvn/?action=browse&path=%2Fcontext-reference%2F
.

>   - Support for elaborate, colorful, graphics-heavy design, which I
> would preferably create in Inkscape and then export as vector
> graphics (or port to ConTeXt's own graphics language) as necessary.

If you're generating graphics externally they can be as elaborate as
you like -- just export as a PDF and include in your document. If you
have complex design that needs to be integrated with the text -- e.g.
non-rectangular columns or text flowing around arbitrary shapes -- I
think this is possible but it might take a lot of work.

>  - Ability to write a style *once* (with reasonable effort), and
> "outsource" it to an external file (or files), so that for each new
> release of the newsletter, only a simple content TeX file (or files)
> with minimal amount of markup

I regard this as a major strength of ConTeXt, and I certainly found it
much easier to produce a ConTeXt style than to do the equivalent when
I was using LaTeX. See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Project_structure
for the recommended way to structure such things.

>  - Ability to easily include pictures in the content, and let the
> typesetting engine automatically position them (either in the main
> text area with text floating around them, or in special margin
> areas).

Yes.

> c) Are there any full-featured examples of design-heavy
> booklets/magazines/etc created with ConTeXt., for which the full
> source code is publicly available?

I think the sources for the manuals themselves are probably the
biggest publicly available example of ConTeXt in action. Magazines
seldom release their source code, alas.

You may want to look at
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Biochemistry_textbook and the linked
example output for an idea of what a style file looks like and how it
is applied. Demonstrates figure positioning nicely too. The source
code for the book itself is not available, though.

Hope this helps,

Pont
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Re: newbie questions

[George N. White III]

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Sanja C. <sanjac@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> Hi ConTeXt community.
>
> While looking for free (preferably open-source) tools which I could use for
> typesetting a planned internal newsletter-booklet for a non-profit organization
> (to be released in printed form in regular intervals - each issue with new
> content of course, but same/similar style), I came across ConTeXt.
>
> I usually use Inkscape and various WYSIWYG word processing software for
> designing and layouting flyers/leaflets/etc., but in this case (many pages,
> varying and regularly updated content, consistent style) I'm afraid those tools
> simply don't cut in in terms of professional-quality typesetting capabilities
> and content//style separation.
>
> So programmatic typesetting might be the answer. I thought of LaTeX first, but I
> read from various sources that using ConTeXt might be easier for typesetting
> book-like things, especially if you want to design your own styles.
>
> Before I delve in deeper, though, I would like to ask you (the ConTeXt
> community) some questions:
>
> a) Is the ConTeXt project alive? The newest PDF documentation I could find seems
> to be from 2007; most of it is dated 2003 or older.

It is very active, as you will soon see from the list traffic.

> b) Do you think that ConTeXt is an appropriate tool for the use case I described
> (be honest please ;-)), and easy enough to learn for someone with almost no TeX
> experience?
> The requirements are:
>  - Support for elaborate, colorful, graphics-heavy design, which I would
> preferably create in Inkscape and then export as vector graphics (or port to
> ConTeXt's own graphics language) as necessary.
>
>  - Ability to write a style *once* (with reasonable effort), and "outsource" it
> to an external file (or files), so that for each new release of the newsletter,
> only a simple content TeX file (or files) with minimal amount of markup is
> required (which e.g. even a non-tech-savvy writer/editor could edit)
>  - Ability to easily include pictures in the content, and let the typesetting
> engine automatically position them (either in the main text area with text
> floating around them, or in special margin areas).
>
> c) Are there any full-featured examples of design-heavy booklets/magazines/etc
> created with ConTeXt., for which the full source code is publicly available?
> That would be *really* helpful in order to assess how much work would be
> required, and also to learn how exactly it's done in practice.

Have a look at <http://pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf>.  If you can find
a sufficiently insecure system (the Windows XP system at my work
qualifies) you will be able to browse into the sample documents.  I
think the Magazines entry deals with complex
layouts.

I'm involved with a scientific report series.  We hired a professional
who did the initial design in Pagemaker.  We then implemented this in
ConTeXt, mostly for the maths support, but the page layout was
superior too.  The implementation was a big job, but the professional
did a lot of the work and was very pleased at the quality of the
result.  It was not as hard as writing the LaTeX style we now use
(because authors already use LaTeX for journal articles but found it
difficult to get context working).

For projects that don't need maths we tend to use In Design or other
commercial tools, partly because printers understandably don't like
dealing with unknown software.  It takes some time to train the
printers to trust ConTeXt or LaTeX produced documents, and then the
company goes under or is bought out by a bigger company and you have
to start over.

-- 
George N. White III <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
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Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

I am new to ConTexT and TeX (thinking about migrating from InDesign).  
I am using TexShop and the teTeX distribution on Mac OS X 10.4.

I have two questions that I cannot seem to answer after studying the  
manuals and the archives.

1.  I have successfully set up a doublesided layout that has a text  
column and an outer margin for margin notes and some small figures. I  
would like to set up a header that has the chapter number and name  
(e.g.  "3. Third Chapter Name") on the inner edge of the text column,  
and the page number aligned with the *outer* edge of the margin and a  
1-pt rule below the entire header (from below the chapter number to  
below the page number). How would one do this elegantly (or even  
inelegantly)?

2.  I would like the math environment to be as close to the LaTeX AMS  
environment as possible. I have figured out how to download the t- 
amsl module and can successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex  
file is in the same folder as my document files. But how do I install  
it permanently so that I can invoke it in all my documents? I was  
unable to find instructions in the ConTexT garden for this, and what  
I could find on the archives was not helpful (something about  
"running mktexlsr" and/or "texhash" that I have don't know how to do  
in OS X, and would be afraid to do without instructions anyway for  
fear of screwing up my TeX distribution).

Thanks for any help, and sorry if the questions are stupid.  Tom Moore

Re: Newbie questions

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

From:    Thomas Moore <tmoore@pomona.edu>
> I have figured out how to download the t-amsl module and can
> successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex file is in the same
> folder as my document files. But how do I install it permanently so
> that I can invoke it in all my documents?

I don't know TeXShop or MacOS but I'm also using teTeX (but on Linux).
t-amsl.tex is already in the distribution of ConTeXt that comes with
teTeX:

$ kpsewhich t-amsl
/usr/share/texmf-tetex/tex/context/maths/t-amsl.tex

If you don't have t-amsl already in the system path, then the command
above won't find it.  You could see where similar files live by
searching for files that are very likely to exist, such as t-bib or
m-graph.

If you're using a recent-enough teTeX (I'm using 3.0), then ~/texmf/
is also on the search path and you could put t-amsl.tex somewhere
analogous but in ~/texmf/tex/context/.  The advantage of ~/texmf over
/usr/share/texmf-tetex/ is that the ~/texmf tree, at least in the
teTeX 3.0 default texmf.cnf file, is searched without requiring that
the file be in the ls-R database, so you don't need to run mktexlsr to
regenerate the ls-R databases.  The system directories are, in the
default config, searched only by looking at the ls-R database (to
avoid searching through a directory tree of 6000+ files).

One problem to watch for is version skew.  The t-amsl.tex that you
downloaded might require a more recent ConTeXt than came with teTeX.
But maybe that's not an issue since you've been using it in your
working directory with no problem.

> I am new to ConTexT and TeX (thinking about migrating from
> InDesign).  

Is that for a new edition of _Six Ideas That Shaped Physics_ (an
excellent series)?  

What makes you consider migrating?  I haven't used InDesign but I
imagine that flowing text around or near figures might be easier with
a page-layout program like InDesign (but I'm still learning ConTeXt
and as a general rule one can do anything in ConTeXt with enough
magic!).  On the other hand, math typesetting might be easier and
higher-quality in TeX/ConTeXt.

Best of luck!

-Sanjoy

`Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
         --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.

Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

On Jun 24, 2006, at 8:46 AM, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:

>> I have figured out how to download the t-amsl module and can
>> successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex file is in the same
>> folder as my document files. But how do I install it permanently so
>> that I can invoke it in all my documents?
>
> I don't know TeXShop or MacOS but I'm also using teTeX (but on Linux).
> t-amsl.tex is already in the distribution of ConTeXt that comes with
> teTeX...

You are correct -- it took a bit of finding on the Mac but it is  
indeed there. That fixes problem #2. Thanks!!
>
>> I am new to ConTexT and TeX (thinking about migrating from
>> InDesign).
>
> Is that for a new edition of _Six Ideas That Shaped Physics_ (an
> excellent series)?

Thank you for your kind words -- yes, I am thinking about the next  
edition, but also for a book on General Relativity that I am working  
on and for future projects.
>
> What makes you consider migrating?  I haven't used InDesign but I
> imagine that flowing text around or near figures might be easier with
> a page-layout program like InDesign (but I'm still learning ConTeXt
> and as a general rule one can do anything in ConTeXt with enough
> magic!).  On the other hand, math typesetting might be easier and
> higher-quality in TeX/ConTeXt.

The Six Ideas texts (first edition) were typeset as AppleWorks  
drawings, if you can believe it. To go to the third edition, I have  
to migrate to something more modern -- either InDesign or something  
TeX-based. Problems with figure and equation references, indexing  
issues, and inconsistent styles were driving me crazy with  
AppleWorks, and many of these problems would persist in InDesign. I  
have also been having difficulty setting up mathematics in a  
satisfactory way. On the other hand, I am a very visual thinker, and  
I don't remember commands well, so even ConTexT (which seems a lot  
simpler than LaTeX) is a big stretch for me. We will see...
>
> Best of luck!

Thanks, I will need it!  Tom

Re: Newbie questions

[Hans Hagen]

Thomas Moore wrote:
> The Six Ideas texts (first edition) were typeset as AppleWorks  
> drawings, if you can believe it. To go to the third edition, I have  
> to migrate to something more modern -- either InDesign or something  
> TeX-based. Problems with figure and equation references, indexing  
> issues, and inconsistent styles were driving me crazy with  
> AppleWorks, and many of these problems would persist in InDesign. I  
> have also been having difficulty setting up mathematics in a  
> satisfactory way. On the other hand, I am a very visual thinker, and  
> I don't remember commands well, so even ConTexT (which seems a lot  
> simpler than LaTeX) is a big stretch for me. We will see...
>   
it's a stepwise process 

- first set up a basic page style (next time in a big bookshop i'll take a look at the series) and set up a font; that way you get an idea how well things will fit  

- then develop the structure + associated style mapping while writing (or converting) 

ask yourself: 

- do i need to render this differently
- do i get the feeling that i enter too much code

if so, then add structure 

This is how context itself evolved (after all, it was written in an educational context where structure, reuse etc is important). Just don't try to make up the style at the beginning, polishing it every now and then is a nice distraction.  

Also, using metapost for the graphics is fun in itself (and may save you lots of time). 

Hans 

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Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

Dear Hans:

> it's a stepwise process
>
> - first set up a basic page style (next time in a big bookshop i'll  
> take a look at the series) and set up a font; that way you get an  
> idea how well things will fit
>
> - then develop the structure + associated style mapping while  
> writing (or converting)
>
> ask yourself:
>
> - do i need to render this differently
> - do i get the feeling that i enter too much code
>
> if so, then add structure
>
> This is how context itself evolved (after all, it was written in an  
> educational context where structure, reuse etc is important). Just  
> don't try to make up the style at the beginning, polishing it every  
> now and then is a nice distraction.
>
> Also, using metapost for the graphics is fun in itself (and may  
> save you lots of time).

Thanks for the very thoughtful advice!

Best wishes,

Tom

Re: Newbie questions

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 6/24/06, Thomas Moore wrote:

> 2.  I would like the math environment to be as close to the LaTeX AMS
> environment as possible. I have figured out how to download the t-
> amsl module and can successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex
> file is in the same folder as my document files. But how do I install
> it permanently so that I can invoke it in all my documents? I was
> unable to find instructions in the ConTexT garden for this, and what
> I could find on the archives was not helpful (something about
> "running mktexlsr" and/or "texhash" that I have don't know how to do
> in OS X, and would be afraid to do without instructions anyway for
> fear of screwing up my TeX distribution).


You can put the file to any location where TeX can find it. For
example if the file context.tex is located under
    [somepath]/texmf[-local]/tex/context/base/context.tex
you might put the file to
    [somepath]/texmf[-local]/tex/context/third/t-amsl.tex
(but basically any location under "texmf" would do).

... and then run mktexlsr without any additinal arguments.

You cannot screw up your TeX distribution by running mktexlsr or
texhash: they're only meant to refresh the database (to know which
file is where). Either of the commands should be present on your
distribution I believe (most probably mktxlsr).

Mojca

Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

Dear Mojca:

>> ...it permanently so that I can invoke it in all my documents? I was
>> unable to find instructions in the ConTexT garden for this, and what
>> I could find on the archives was not helpful (something about
>> "running mktexlsr" and/or "texhash" that I have don't know how to do
>> in OS X, and would be afraid to do without instructions anyway for
>> fear of screwing up my TeX distribution).
>
> You can put the file to any location where TeX can find it. For
> example if the file context.tex is located under
>     [somepath]/texmf[-local]/tex/context/base/context.tex
> you might put the file to
>     [somepath]/texmf[-local]/tex/context/third/t-amsl.tex
> (but basically any location under "texmf" would do).
>
> ... and then run mktexlsr without any additinal arguments.
>
> You cannot screw up your TeX distribution by running mktexlsr or
> texhash: they're only meant to refresh the database (to know which
> file is where). Either of the commands should be present on your
> distribution I believe (most probably mktxlsr).
>
> Mojca

Thanks. The previous response on the list solved this particular  
problem, but for future reference, how do I "run" mktexlsr? from the  
OS X Terminal? I have never used that before, so I would need pretty  
basic instructions (e.g. would I have tell the Terminal where to find  
"mktexlsr"?).

I appreciate your help!  Tom

Re: Newbie questions

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

> how do I "run" mktexlsr? from the OS X Terminal

Since you're using tetex, 'mktexlsr' should be in the PATH already (on
my linux system it's in /usr/bin, one of the very standard components
of PATH), so 'mktexlsr' from the Terminal should work.

If that doesn't work, what's the output of 'printenv PATH'?  And does
MacOS have 'locate'?  On Linux, 'locate mktexlsr' will tell you all
files that contain 'mktexlsr' in their full name (including
directory).  That often helps in finding where packages put files.

On (Debian) Linux an easier way is to ask the package management
system to list the files in a package, e.g:

  dpkg -L tetex-base 

which produces thousands of lines.  Maybe Mac gurus know something
similar for Mac OS?

Even more useful is to use a pipe (|) to connect the output of dpkg to
pattern-matching utility grep:

  dpkg -L tetex-base | grep t-amsl

which produces

  /usr/share/texmf-tetex/tex/context/maths/t-amsl.tex

For finding mktexlsr 'dpkg -L tetex-bin | grep mktexlsr' produces

  /usr/share/man/man1/mktexlsr.1.gz
  /usr/bin/mktexlsr

(also useful to use grep after a 'locate').

If locate doesn't exist, the elephant gun is 'find', e.g.

  find /usr -name 'mktexlsr'

or another example:

  find /usr -name 't-amsl.tex'

Find traverses the file system tree starting where you tell it (/usr
in the above examples) looking for whatever you ask, and prints out
the matching path names.

('locate' is just an optimized version of find: Once a week or so, the
system does a 'find /' and stores all the paths in a monster file, and
then 'locate' just looks in that file).

-Sanjoy

`Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
         --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.

Re: Newbie questions

[Aditya Mahajan]

> 2.  I would like the math environment to be as close to the LaTeX AMS
> environment as possible. I have figured out how to download the t-
> amsl module and can successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex
> file is in the same folder as my document files.


Others have already answered on how to "install t-amsl.tex" so I will 
not go into that. Context has a much improved math support since 
Giuseppe Bilotta wrote t-amsl.tex. I think it is better to use the 
"native" math environments of context which provide a lot more 
features. The syntax does not follow the latex ams syntax, but like 
everything in Context you can customize the behaviour a lot. You can 
look at http://dl.contextgarden.net/myway/mathalign.pdf which contains 
some examples of using the built-in context support.

Aditya

Re: Newbie questions

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 6/24/06, Thomas Moore wrote:
> 1.  I have successfully set up a doublesided layout that has a text
> column and an outer margin for margin notes and some small figures. I
> would like to set up a header that has the chapter number and name
> (e.g.  "3. Third Chapter Name") on the inner edge of the text column,
> and the page number aligned with the *outer* edge of the margin and a
> 1-pt rule below the entire header (from below the chapter number to
> below the page number). How would one do this elegantly (or even
> inelegantly)?

First forget about the wrong pagenumber positioning. Here's the most
elegant solution for drawing the line:

\setuppagenumbering
	[alternative=doublesided,
	 location=]

\setupheadertexts
	[pagenumber]
	[chapter]
	[chapter]
	[pagenumber]

\setuplayout
	[header=15pt,
	 headerdistance=20pt]

\setupbackgrounds
	[header]
	[text]
	[bottomframe=on,
	 rulethickness=1pt]

\starttext
\chapter{first}
\dorecurse{50}{\input tufte }
\chapter{second}
\dorecurse{20}{\input tufte }
\stoptext

But I don't know if there's a simple extention to it to draw the
missing line inbetween.


Here's another solution, which is the wrong way of doing things (it's
way too slow and meant for more complex things than a simple rule, but
could be optimezed if "useMPgraphic" was replaced with "reusable" or
"unique"). Also try \showlayout and see meta-pag.tex in the ConTeXt
source.

\startuseMPgraphic{PageFrame}
  StartPage ;
  y1=y2=PaperHeight-TopSpace-HeaderHeight;

  if OnRightPage :
    x2 = BackSpace+TextWidth = x1 + LeftMarginDistance +
LeftMarginWidth + TextWidth;
  else:
    x2 = BackSpace = x1 - (RightMarginDistance + RightMarginWidth + TextWidth);
  fi;
    draw z1--z2 withpen pencircle scaled 1pt;
  StopPage;
\stopuseMPgraphic

\defineoverlay
	[PageFrame][\useMPgraphic{PageFrame}]

\setupbackgrounds
	[page]
	[background=PageFrame]


The trird solutions is probably the way to go, but it influences only
a single page and \getmarking[chapter] has no influence. I guess that
a minor modification is needed to handle both left & right page
properly and to put that layer over all pages, not only on the  first
one:

\definelayer
	[page]
	[width=\paperwidth,
	 height=\paperheight]
\setupbackgrounds
	[page]
	[background=page]
\setlayerframed
	[page]
	[voffset=\topspace,
	 hoffset=\the\dimexpr\backspace-\leftmarginwidth-\leftmargindistance\relax,
	 preset=lefttop]
	[width=\the\dimexpr\textwidth+\leftmarginwidth+\leftmargindistance\relax,
	 rulethickness=1pt,
	 frame=off,
	 bottomframe=on]
	{\pagenumber\hfill\getmarking[chapter][first]}

Hoping that someone can fix at least one of the solutions above to
work as intended,
    Mojca

Re: Newbie questions

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
> \definelayer
> 	[page]
> 	[width=\paperwidth,
> 	 height=\paperheight]
> \setupbackgrounds
> 	[page]
> 	[background=page]
> \setlayerframed
> 	[page]
> 	[voffset=\topspace,
> 	 hoffset=\the\dimexpr\backspace-\leftmarginwidth-\leftmargindistance\relax,
> 	 preset=lefttop]
> 	[width=\the\dimexpr\textwidth+\leftmarginwidth+\leftmargindistance\relax,
> 	 rulethickness=1pt,
> 	 frame=off,
> 	 bottomframe=on]
> 	{\pagenumber\hfill\getmarking[chapter][first]}
>
> Hoping that someone can fix at least one of the solutions above to
> work as intended,
>   

ok, here is a trick:


\definelayer
  [page]
  [hoffset=\the\dimexpr\backspace-
     \leftmarginwidth-\leftmargindistance\relax,
   voffset=\topspace,
   width=\paperwidth,
   height=\paperheight]

\setupbackgrounds
  [page]
  [background=page]

\startsetups page:setup

\setlayerframed
  [page]
  [preset=lefttop]
  [width=\dimexpr\textwidth+\leftmarginwidth+\leftmargindistance\relax,
   rulethickness=1pt,
   frame=off,
   bottomframe=on]
 {\pagenumber\hfill\getmarking[chapter][first]}

\stopsetups

\setupheadertexts
  [\setups{page:setup}]

so, 

- makea setup (clean) 
- hook it into something that is done each page (maybe i should cook up a hook for that) 

now, the left right page problem is up to you ... keep in mind that we have 

\setupbackgrounds
  [leftpage]
  [...]

\setupbackgrounds
  [rightpage]
  [...]




-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

On Jun 25, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>> ....Hoping that someone can fix at least one of the solutions  
>> above to
>> work as intended,
>>
>
> ok, here is a trick: ....
> now, the left right page problem is up to you ... keep in mind that  
> we have
>
> \setupbackgrounds
>   [leftpage]
>   [...]
>
> \setupbackgrounds
>   [rightpage]
>   [...]
Thanks, Mojca, for your ideas! Special thanks to Hans, whose solution  
seemed efficient and worked like a charm (after I made one minor  
fix). I have attached to the end of this message code that works well  
on *either* right pages *or* left pages. Now I'd like to extend the  
code so that it would work on *both* kinds of pages. But my  
experimentation has raised the following questions:

1. When I change the \setupbackgrounds [page][background=thepage] in  
the code shown below to \setupbackgrounds [rightpage] 
[background=thepage], I expected that the left page would have no  
header and the right page would have the appropriate header. However,  
when I do this, I get two superimposed headers with different lengths  
on right pages (and nothing, as expected, on left pages). Why do I  
get *two* headers on the right page?

2. I also do not understand \startsetups command, which I could not  
find in the ConTexT manual or in the online summary of ConTexT  
commands. It looks like the purpose of this command is to put a  
wrapper around the \setlayerframed command so that it can be used in  
the \setupheadertexts command. Is this right?  Also:

    a.  I guess that I don't understand why the \setlayerframed  
command could not be used directly in the \setupheadertexts command:  
why do we need the wrapper?

    b.  And why this particular wrapping command? (\startfoo ...  
\stopfoo doesn't work.)

    c.  Also, I am assuming that the colon is simply part of the name  
assigned to this setup and has no other significance: is this right?

3. So, my guess (once problem 1 is fixed), is that I will define  
*two* layers (one for right pages and one for left pages), and do a  
\setupbackground [rightpage][background=therightpage] and a  
\setupbackground[leftpage][background=theleftpage]. But I don't know  
what to do inside the \startsetup ... \stopsetup. Do I have a pair of  
\setlayerframed statements? Do I surround this pair with something  
like an if onRightPage ... if onLeftPage statement? Or do I put the  
if-then statements *inside* the \setlayerframed statement?

Thanks for any help...

Tom

Code follows:

\usemodule[amsl]
\usemodule[newmat]

\setuppapersize[letter]
\setuppagenumbering
	[alternative=doublesided]
\setuplayout
	[backspace=1.0in,
	topspace=0.5in,
	width=4.5in,
	height=9.5in,
	rightmargin=2.35in,
	rightmargindistance=0.15in,
	leftmargin=0in,
	leftmargindistance=0in,
	header=0.5 in,
	footer=0in]

\definelayer
   [thepage]
   %[hoffset=\the\dimexpr\cutspace-\leftmarginwidth- 
\leftmargindistance\relax,  % for left pages
   [hoffset=\the\dimexpr\backspace\relax,  % for right pages
    voffset=\topspace,
    width=\paperwidth,
    height=\paperheight]

\setupbackgrounds
   [page]
   [background=thepage]

\startsetups page:setup

\setlayerframed
   [thepage]
   [preset=lefttop]
%  [width=\dimexpr\textwidth+\leftmarginwidth+\leftmargindistance 
\relax,  % for left pages
   [width=\dimexpr\textwidth+\rightmarginwidth+\rightmargindistance 
\relax, % for right pages
    rulethickness=1pt,
    frame=off,
    bottomframe=on]
% {\pagenumber\hfill\getmarking[chapter][first]}  % for left pages
   {\getmarking[chapter][first]\hfill\pagenumber}  % for right pages
\stopsetups

\setupheadertexts
   [\setups{page:setup}]
	
\starttext
\chapter{Test}
This is a test of some math stuff. $0 = g_{\mu\nu}dx^\nu dx^\nu$.
\dorecurse{10}{\input knuth}

\showlayout
\stoptext

Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

Dear ConTeXt gurus:

OK, I have gotten some off-list help from Mojca, who has answered  
most of my questions and helped me polish the two page version of my  
code (thanks, Mojca!). I have included what he helped me work out  
below. There is one remaining problem. The first page is correct, but  
very subsequent page has a correct-looking header and another  
superimposed. The second superimposed header is not wide enough and  
has the wrong page number (the number of the previous page), though  
the page number is on the correct side. It is as if the page output  
command from TeX is issuing the \setups command *twice*, once before  
fully updating variables like \rightmarginwidth and the page number,  
and once after setups have been done correctly. Is this a bug, or am  
I doing something stupid?

Thanks for any insight, Tom

Code follows:

\usemodule[amsl]
\usemodule[newmat]

\setuppapersize[letter]
\setuppagenumbering
	[alternative=doublesided]
\setuplayout
	[backspace=1.0in,
	topspace=0.5in,
	width=4.5in,
	height=9.5in,
	rightmargin=2.35in,
	rightmargindistance=0.15in,
	leftmargin=0in,
	leftmargindistance=0in,
	header=0.5 in,
	footer=0in]

\definelayer
[leftpage]
[hoffset=\the\dimexpr\cutspace-\leftmarginwidth-\leftmargindistance 
\relax,  % for left pages
   voffset=\topspace,
   width=\paperwidth,
   height=\paperheight]

\definelayer
[rightpage]
[hoffset=\the\dimexpr\backspace\relax,  % for right pages
   voffset=\topspace,
   width=\paperwidth,
   height=\paperheight]

\setupbackgrounds
[leftpage]
[background=leftpage]
\setupbackgrounds
[rightpage]
[background=rightpage]

\startsetups page:setup

\setlayerframed
[leftpage]
[preset=lefttop]
[width=\dimexpr\textwidth+\leftmarginwidth+\leftmargindistance 
\relax,  % for left pages
   rulethickness=1pt,
   frame=off,
   bottomframe=on]
{\pagenumber\hfill\getmarking[chapter][first]}  % for left pages

\setlayerframed
[rightpage]
[preset=lefttop]
[width=\dimexpr\textwidth+\rightmarginwidth+\rightmargindistance 
\relax, % for right pages
   rulethickness=1pt,
   frame=off,
   bottomframe=on]
   {\getmarking[chapter][first]\hfill\pagenumber}  % for right pages

\stopsetups

\setupheadertexts
   [\setups{page:setup}]
	
\starttext
\chapter{Test}
This is a test of some math stuff. $0 = g_{\mu\nu}dx^\nu dx^\nu$.
\dorecurse{10}{\input knuth}

\showlayout
\stoptext

Re: Newbie questions

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Thomas Moore wrote:

> Dear ConTeXt gurus:

I am not a context guru, but will still give it a shot ;)

> OK, I have gotten some off-list help from Mojca, who has answered
> most of my questions and helped me polish the two page version of my
> code (thanks, Mojca!). I have included what he helped me work out
> below. There is one remaining problem. The first page is correct, but
> very subsequent page has a correct-looking header and another
> superimposed. The second superimposed header is not wide enough and
> has the wrong page number (the number of the previous page), though
> the page number is on the correct side. It is as if the page output
> command from TeX is issuing the \setups command *twice*, once before
> fully updating variables like \rightmarginwidth and the page number,
> and once after setups have been done correctly. Is this a bug, or am
> I doing something stupid?
>
> Thanks for any insight, Tom

I am not sure what about the exact layout you are trying to achieve. 
Does this give you what you want.


\setuppapersize[letter]
\setuppagenumbering
   [alternative=doublesided,location=]
\setuplayout
        [backspace=1.0in,
        topspace=0.5in,
        width=4.5in,
        height=9.5in,
        rightmargin=2.35in,
        rightmargindistance=0.15in,
        leftmargin=0in,
        leftmargindistance=0in,
        header=\normallineheight,
        headerdistance=\dimexpr0.5in-\normallineheight,
        footer=0in]

\setupheadertexts[chapter][pagenumber][pagenumber][chapter]
\setupbackgrounds[header][text][bottomframe=on,rulethickness=1pt]


  \starttext
  \chapter{Test}
  This is a test of some math stuff. $0 = g_{\mu\nu}dx^\nu dx^\nu$.
  \dorecurse{10}{\input knuth}

  \showlayout
  \stoptext

Aditya


> Code follows:
>
> \usemodule[amsl]
> \usemodule[newmat]
>
> \setuppapersize[letter]
> \setuppagenumbering
> 	[alternative=doublesided]
> \setuplayout
> 	[backspace=1.0in,
> 	topspace=0.5in,
> 	width=4.5in,
> 	height=9.5in,
> 	rightmargin=2.35in,
> 	rightmargindistance=0.15in,
> 	leftmargin=0in,
> 	leftmargindistance=0in,
> 	header=0.5 in,
> 	footer=0in]
>
> \definelayer
> [leftpage]
> [hoffset=\the\dimexpr\cutspace-\leftmarginwidth-\leftmargindistance
> \relax,  % for left pages
>   voffset=\topspace,
>   width=\paperwidth,
>   height=\paperheight]
>
> \definelayer
> [rightpage]
> [hoffset=\the\dimexpr\backspace\relax,  % for right pages
>   voffset=\topspace,
>   width=\paperwidth,
>   height=\paperheight]
>
> \setupbackgrounds
> [leftpage]
> [background=leftpage]
> \setupbackgrounds
> [rightpage]
> [background=rightpage]
>
> \startsetups page:setup
>
> \setlayerframed
> [leftpage]
> [preset=lefttop]
> [width=\dimexpr\textwidth+\leftmarginwidth+\leftmargindistance
> \relax,  % for left pages
>   rulethickness=1pt,
>   frame=off,
>   bottomframe=on]
> {\pagenumber\hfill\getmarking[chapter][first]}  % for left pages
>
> \setlayerframed
> [rightpage]
> [preset=lefttop]
> [width=\dimexpr\textwidth+\rightmarginwidth+\rightmargindistance
> \relax, % for right pages
>   rulethickness=1pt,
>   frame=off,
>   bottomframe=on]
>   {\getmarking[chapter][first]\hfill\pagenumber}  % for right pages
>
> \stopsetups
>
> \setupheadertexts
>   [\setups{page:setup}]
>
> \starttext
> \chapter{Test}
> This is a test of some math stuff. $0 = g_{\mu\nu}dx^\nu dx^\nu$.
> \dorecurse{10}{\input knuth}
>
> \showlayout
> \stoptext
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
>

-- 
Aditya Mahajan, EECS Systems, University of Michigan
http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~adityam || Ph: 7342624008

Re: Newbie questions

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

From:    Thomas Moore <tmoore@pomona.edu>
> \setuppapersize[letter]

You want

\setuppapersize[letter][letter]

otherwise you get letter sized pages imposed on A4 paper (not widely
available in Pomona probably!) because the default value for the
second argument is A4.  You might get lucky and end up with letter
pages anyway if you have the right defaults in dvips, but that's a bit
fragile (and probably direct pdf output would be on A4 paper).

In an earlier thread I'd asked that the default be whatever the first
argument is, but that idea was rejected on the (reasonable) grounds
that the change would break too many documents.

-Sanjoy

`Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
         --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.

Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 294 bytes --]

Dear Sanjoy:
>
> You want
>
> \setuppapersize[letter][letter]
>
> otherwise you get letter sized pages imposed on A4 paper (not widely
> available in Pomona probably!) because the default value for the
> second argument is A4.

Wow, you are right. I really appreciate your catching this!

Tom


[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1404 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

On Jun 28, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

>> Dear ConTeXt gurus:
>
> I am not a context guru, but will still give it a shot ;)

Thanks for your help!
>
>> OK, I have gotten some off-list help from Mojca, who has answered
>> most of my questions and helped me polish the two page version of my
>> code (thanks, Mojca!). I have included what he helped me work out
>> below. There is one remaining problem. The first page is correct, but
>> very subsequent page has a correct-looking header and another
>> superimposed. The second superimposed header is not wide enough and
>> has the wrong page number (the number of the previous page), though
>> the page number is on the correct side. It is as if the page output
>> command from TeX is issuing the \setups command *twice*, once before
>> fully updating variables like \rightmarginwidth and the page number,
>> and once after setups have been done correctly. Is this a bug, or am
>> I doing something stupid?
>>
>> Thanks for any insight, Tom
>
> I am not sure what about the exact layout you are trying to achieve.
> Does this give you what you want.
>
>
> \setuppapersize[letter]
> \setuppagenumbering
>    [alternative=doublesided,location=]
> \setuplayout
>         [backspace=1.0in,
>         topspace=0.5in,
>         width=4.5in,
>         height=9.5in,
>         rightmargin=2.35in,
>         rightmargindistance=0.15in,
>         leftmargin=0in,
>         leftmargindistance=0in,
>         header=\normallineheight,
>         headerdistance=\dimexpr0.5in-\normallineheight,
>         footer=0in]
>
> \setupheadertexts[chapter][pagenumber][pagenumber][chapter]
> \setupbackgrounds[header][text][bottomframe=on,rulethickness=1pt]
>
>
>   \starttext
>   \chapter{Test}
>   This is a test of some math stuff. $0 = g_{\mu\nu}dx^\nu dx^\nu$.
>   \dorecurse{10}{\input knuth}
>
>   \showlayout
>   \stoptext

Sorry, no. The additional feature that I need is to be able to extend  
the horizontal line over the margin region as well as the text  
region, and put the page number (outer-justified) at the outer edge  
of the margin region. The code that I attached to the previous  
message does that, but suffers from the superimposed headers problem.  
But I appreciate your effort!

Best wishes,  Tom

Re: Newbie questions

[Gerben Wierda]

On Jun 24, 2006, at 16:56, Thomas Moore wrote:

> 2.  I would like the math environment to be as close to the LaTeX AMS
> environment as possible. I have figured out how to download the t-
> amsl module and can successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex
> file is in the same folder as my document files. But how do I install
> it permanently so that I can invoke it in all my documents? I was
> unable to find instructions in the ConTexT garden for this, and what
> I could find on the archives was not helpful (something about
> "running mktexlsr" and/or "texhash" that I have don't know how to do
> in OS X, and would be afraid to do without instructions anyway for
> fear of screwing up my TeX distribution).
>
> Thanks for any help, and sorry if the questions are stupid.  Tom Moore

Depending on how you installed TeX, t-amsl.tex is there. If you 
installed with the TeX i-Package:

$ kpsewhich t-amsl.tex
/usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf.tetex/tex/context/maths/t-amsl.tex

But it is the one from 1.5 years ago in the old ConTeXt that comes with 
the (discontinued) teTeX texmf tree. If you also installed the ConTeXt 
updater (which is pretty up-to-date), the math stuff is not in there 
(Hans, why not?) so you get a newer ConTeXt with an older t-amsl.tex 
and I have no idea if that works.

If you have a (more recent) t-amsl.tex file and you are using the TeX 
i-Package, you can install th efile as 
~/Library/texmf/tex/context/t-amsl.tex and it will be found. No 
mktexlsr or texhash is needed for that particular tree.

If someone tells me what to include in the ConTeXt updater for this 
math stuff and where to get it, I can make life easy for you.

If you installed with fink or in some other way, I have no idea how to 
help you.

G

Re: Newbie questions

[Hans Hagen]

Gerben Wierda wrote:
> On Jun 24, 2006, at 16:56, Thomas Moore wrote:
>
>   
>> 2.  I would like the math environment to be as close to the LaTeX AMS
>> environment as possible. I have figured out how to download the t-
>> amsl module and can successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex
>> file is in the same folder as my document files. But how do I install
>> it permanently so that I can invoke it in all my documents? I was
>> unable to find instructions in the ConTexT garden for this, and what
>> I could find on the archives was not helpful (something about
>> "running mktexlsr" and/or "texhash" that I have don't know how to do
>> in OS X, and would be afraid to do without instructions anyway for
>> fear of screwing up my TeX distribution).
>>
>> Thanks for any help, and sorry if the questions are stupid.  Tom Moore
>>     
>
> Depending on how you installed TeX, t-amsl.tex is there. If you 
> installed with the TeX i-Package:
>
> $ kpsewhich t-amsl.tex
> /usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf.tetex/tex/context/maths/t-amsl.tex
>
> But it is the one from 1.5 years ago in the old ConTeXt that comes with 
> the (discontinued) teTeX texmf tree. If you also installed the ConTeXt 
> updater (which is pretty up-to-date), the math stuff is not in there 
> (Hans, why not?) so you get a newer ConTeXt with an older t-amsl.tex 
> and I have no idea if that works.
>   
it's a third party module, and when not present at the context garden, 
it will not end up on ctan (or in the extras zip)
>
> If someone tells me what to include in the ConTeXt updater for this 
> math stuff and where to get it, I can make life easy for you.
>   
taco can give you details on how to auto-sync with the garden third party modules,

Hans 
 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Newbie questions

[Thomas Moore]

Dear Gerben:  Thanks, the t-amsl module does seemed to be pre- 
installed. I just downloaded TeX/LaTeX/ ConTexT recently (mid June)  
using an all-in-one-step installer, and I have not upgraded, so I  
guess that my t-amsl file might be outdated. Thanks for the  
suggestion about where to put the new module -- this will help in the  
future.  Best wishes, Tom

On Jun 27, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Gerben Wierda wrote:

> On Jun 24, 2006, at 16:56, Thomas Moore wrote:
>
>> 2.  I would like the math environment to be as close to the LaTeX AMS
>> environment as possible. I have figured out how to download the t-
>> amsl module and can successfully invoke it as long as the t-amsl.tex
>> file is in the same folder as my document files. But how do I install
>> it permanently so that I can invoke it in all my documents? I was
>> unable to find instructions in the ConTexT garden for this, and what
>> I could find on the archives was not helpful (something about
>> "running mktexlsr" and/or "texhash" that I have don't know how to do
>> in OS X, and would be afraid to do without instructions anyway for
>> fear of screwing up my TeX distribution).
>>
>> Thanks for any help, and sorry if the questions are stupid.  Tom  
>> Moore
>
> Depending on how you installed TeX, t-amsl.tex is there. If you
> installed with the TeX i-Package:
>
> $ kpsewhich t-amsl.tex
> /usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf.tetex/tex/context/maths/t-amsl.tex
>
> But it is the one from 1.5 years ago in the old ConTeXt that comes  
> with
> the (discontinued) teTeX texmf tree. If you also installed the ConTeXt
> updater (which is pretty up-to-date), the math stuff is not in there
> (Hans, why not?) so you get a newer ConTeXt with an older t-amsl.tex
> and I have no idea if that works.
>
> If you have a (more recent) t-amsl.tex file and you are using the TeX
> i-Package, you can install th efile as
> ~/Library/texmf/tex/context/t-amsl.tex and it will be found. No
> mktexlsr or texhash is needed for that particular tree.
>
> If someone tells me what to include in the ConTeXt updater for this
> math stuff and where to get it, I can make life easy for you.
>
> If you installed with fink or in some other way, I have no idea how to
> help you.
>
> G
>
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