* Character and word spacing @ 2014-05-29 18:15 Rik Kabel 2014-05-29 23:29 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Rik Kabel @ 2014-05-29 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1322 bytes --] I am setting some text from Geoffrey Dowding's /Finer Points in the Spacing and Arrangement of Type/. I am trying to set it using his recommendations. For those not familiar with his book, the key point is that he promotes extremely tight spacing to achieve a uniform density across the page in the belief that this leads to a pleasing presentation and improved readability. Among his recommendations is that an opening single quote together with the space preceding it should take up no more space than a normal word space, and similarly following a closing single quote; that the space after some punctuation be minimized (some of his commas appear to have perhaps just a hairspace, following them); that the space between punctuation and letters be adjusted according to the shape of the letter; and that 'and' be replaced by '&' as necessary to improve word spacing. While this last is probably beyond the scope of ConTeXt, I am hoping that the first few might be managed through \definecharacterspacing, \setupcharacterspacing, and \setcharacterspacing. Alas, I have found no documentation on this set of commands, and what I see in the source is opaque. If you have pointers to the details of these commands, or other suggestions for such typographic exercises, please let me know. -- Rik Kabel [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1629 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Character and word spacing 2014-05-29 18:15 Character and word spacing Rik Kabel @ 2014-05-29 23:29 ` Hans Hagen 2014-05-31 14:14 ` Rik Kabel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2014-05-29 23:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context On 5/29/2014 8:15 PM, Rik Kabel wrote: > I am setting some text from Geoffrey Dowding's /Finer Points in the > Spacing and Arrangement of Type/. I am trying to set it using his > recommendations. For those not familiar with his book, the key point is > that he promotes extremely tight spacing to achieve a uniform density > across the page in the belief that this leads to a pleasing presentation > and improved readability. > > Among his recommendations is that an opening single quote together with > the space preceding it should take up no more space than a normal word > space, and similarly following a closing single quote; that the space > after some punctuation be minimized (some of his commas appear to have > perhaps just a hairspace, following them); that the space between > punctuation and letters be adjusted according to the shape of the > letter; and that 'and' be replaced by '&' as necessary to improve word > spacing. While this last is probably beyond the scope of ConTeXt, I am > hoping that the first few might be managed through > \definecharacterspacing, \setupcharacterspacing, and \setcharacterspacing. > > Alas, I have found no documentation on this set of commands, and what I > see in the source is opaque. > > If you have pointers to the details of these commands, or other > suggestions for such typographic exercises, please let me know. you can mess with sfcodes: \starttext \input tufte \sfcode`\.100 \sfcode`\,100 \sfcode`\?100 \sfcode`\!100 \sfcode`\:100 \sfcode`\;100 \input tufte \dostepwiserecurse{`a}{`z}{1}{\sfcode#1=100\relax} \input tufte \dostepwiserecurse{"0}{"FFFF}{1}{\sfcode#1=100\relax} \input tufte \stoptext I'm pretty sure I would not read books typeset that way. replacing and by & can be done too but that would look even worse (for consistency one should then replace 'or' by | and even more can be saved by going sms: "wandering" becomes "w&ndering", and "according" becomes "acc|rding" plus the usual messing with digits probably, omitting all vowels would work out too for reader who like that compact typesetting Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Character and word spacing 2014-05-29 23:29 ` Hans Hagen @ 2014-05-31 14:14 ` Rik Kabel 2014-05-31 23:17 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Rik Kabel @ 2014-05-31 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4933 bytes --] On 2014-05-29 19:29, Hans Hagen wrote: > On 5/29/2014 8:15 PM, Rik Kabel wrote: >> I am setting some text from Geoffrey Dowding's /Finer Points in the >> Spacing and Arrangement of Type/. I am trying to set it using his >> recommendations. For those not familiar with his book, the key point is >> that he promotes extremely tight spacing to achieve a uniform density >> across the page in the belief that this leads to a pleasing presentation >> and improved readability. >> >> Among his recommendations is that an opening single quote together with >> the space preceding it should take up no more space than a normal word >> space, and similarly following a closing single quote; that the space >> after some punctuation be minimized (some of his commas appear to have >> perhaps just a hairspace, following them); that the space between >> punctuation and letters be adjusted according to the shape of the >> letter; and that 'and' be replaced by '&' as necessary to improve word >> spacing. While this last is probably beyond the scope of ConTeXt, I am >> hoping that the first few might be managed through >> \definecharacterspacing, \setupcharacterspacing, and >> \setcharacterspacing. >> >> Alas, I have found no documentation on this set of commands, and what I >> see in the source is opaque. >> >> If you have pointers to the details of these commands, or other >> suggestions for such typographic exercises, please let me know. > > you can mess with sfcodes: > > \starttext > > \input tufte > > \sfcode`\.100 \sfcode`\,100 > \sfcode`\?100 \sfcode`\!100 > \sfcode`\:100 \sfcode`\;100 > > \input tufte > > \dostepwiserecurse{`a}{`z}{1}{\sfcode#1=100\relax} > > \input tufte > > \dostepwiserecurse{"0}{"FFFF}{1}{\sfcode#1=100\relax} > > \input tufte > > \stoptext > > I'm pretty sure I would not read books typeset that way. > > replacing and by & can be done too but that would look even worse (for > consistency one should then replace 'or' by | and even more can be > saved by going sms: "wandering" becomes "w&ndering", and "according" > becomes "acc|rding" plus the usual messing with digits > > probably, omitting all vowels would work out too for reader who like > that compact typesetting > > Hans > Hans, I think you are a bit too quick to judge from my description (and that is the fault of my description). Below is a bit I scanned from page 51 of the 1966 3rd edition where you can see the '&' substitution and general tightness: I have put the full scan of pages 50 and 51 at http://www.panix.com/~rik/Dowding_50-51.pdf <http://www.panix.com/%7Erik/Dowding_50-51.pdf> so that you can see the overall effect more clearly. I also put up pages 28 and 29 (http://www.panix.com/~rik/Dowding_28-29.pdf <http://www.panix.com/%7Erik/Dowding_28-29.pdf>), where he discusses fitting quotation marks and other punctuation around particular shapes. Dowding represents the fine, high-quality handset press aesthetic of the early- and mid-20th century, but he was also concerned with job-work and high-volume publishing. He comes from the same tradition as Frederic Goudy, Eric Gill, Stanley Morison, D.B. Updike, and Bruce Rogers. They celebrated the art of book typography as much as the mechanics. Dowding was not quite the romantic that the others (Gill in particular) were, and saw the transition to automated typesetting as a challenge to the art largely because of the change in economics (it is disruptive and relatively expensive to rework a line of type once cast). I have no doubt that he would have welcomed the renewed flexibility that DEK provided, and you continue to provide, through newer tools than the crude early automation that he faced. (And yes, I do understand some of the economics of the printshop. I worked for a short time while in college in a hot-type shop, a weekly newspaper, hand-setting display type for a Ludlow caster and making up pages on the stone.) My issue with Dowding (and with Gill) is that they suggest that the compositor has an obligation to change the author's text, without consultation and agreement, in order to meet his concept of better page makeup. Dowding's sensitivity to the appearance of the page, on the other hand, is sadly missing from much of book publishing today. Gross manipulation of the space factors is probably too crude to accomplish much in implementing the style Dowding promotes, although the tightness in the second tufte from your example (modifying the punctuation) may be a starting point. With XeTeX, one can use \interchartoks to handle general (non-font-specific) kerning between punctuation and certain letter shapes (sloped left or right, ascender, descender, ...) beyond what any particular font's kerning tables provide. I see nothing in MKIV that provides this, and thought that perhaps \definecharacterspacing might fill the role. Hence the original question in this thread. -- Rik Kabel [-- Attachment #1.2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 6601 bytes --] [-- Attachment #1.2.2: jabdagdb.png --] [-- Type: image/png, Size: 54468 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Character and word spacing 2014-05-31 14:14 ` Rik Kabel @ 2014-05-31 23:17 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2014-05-31 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context On 5/31/2014 4:14 PM, Rik Kabel wrote: > My issue with Dowding (and with Gill) is that they suggest that the compositor > has an obligation to change the author's text, without consultation and > agreement, in order to meet his concept of better page makeup. Dowding's > sensitivity to the appearance of the page, on the other hand, is sadly missing > from much of book publishing today. Long ago I have been thinking of improving some \oneof {bad} {suboptimal} paragraphs by applying 'alternative' words, i.e. one could \optional {for instance} write like this. > Gross manipulation of the space factors is probably too crude to accomplish much > in implementing the style Dowding promotes, although the tightness in the second > tufte from your example (modifying the punctuation) may be a starting point. > > With XeTeX, one can use \interchartoks to handle general (non-font-specific) > kerning between punctuation and certain letter shapes (sloped left or right, > ascender, descender, ...) beyond what any particular font's kerning tables > provide. I see nothing in MKIV that provides this, and thought that perhaps > \definecharacterspacing might fill the role. Hence the original question in this > thread. you can play with (subtle) expansion (hz) and specific stretch vectors .. imo kerning other than what the font designer has in mind is normally a bad idea; another option is to use a font with different glyphs for the same character but I don't know of such fonts Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
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