From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/88112 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: State of documentation of ConTeXt? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:31 +0200 Message-ID: <53C58DC3.8080103@wxs.nl> References: <1642f57885676cbd1020027a2bff7c40.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53C41372.7080802@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405455854 3691 80.91.229.3 (15 Jul 2014 20:24:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:24:14 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Jul 15 22:24:00 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X79GZ-0003Vm-EH for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2E610282 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Md6ri-Ce3qS5 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:58 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C5910222 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:51 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7A0101E3 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id hoxbuJ9KR2us for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:42 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter1-til.mf.surf.net (filter1-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.217]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB85101E2 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:38 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp.ziggozakelijk.nl (D57D1DA2.static.ziggozakelijk.nl [213.125.29.162]) by filter1-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id s6FKNbmZ018165 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:37 +0200 X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=10.100.1.103; Original-Received: from [10.100.1.103] (unverified [10.100.1.103]) by pragma-net.nl (SurgeMail 6.5a2) with ESMTP id 136-1713362 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:23:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 In-Reply-To: X-Authenticated-User: hagen@controller-9 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: ntg-context@ntg.nl, base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=213.125.29.162; country=NL; region=Provincie Overijssel; city=Zwolle; latitude=52.5058; longitude=6.0858; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5058,6.0858&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0RMqInBks - 47ea3e86ea9e - 20140715 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.217 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:88112 Archived-At: On 7/15/2014 11:59 AM, Gerben Wierda wrote: > On 14 Jul 2014, at 19:29, Hans Hagen > wrote: > >> quite some sub-systems are described in their own manuals (fonts, >> tables, xml, ...) and these manuals are quite up to date (and easier >> to maintain than one big fat manual >> >> also, additional documentation is something that users need to >> participate in (just pick a topic) >> >> even if it has high priority, that doesn't mean that those involved >> have much free time left to do that next to their regular work (as >> usual most development is done in spare time) >> >> so, patience is needed, > > I like ConTeXt (still do, I liked its approach when I first encountered > it). But the project is more the ongoing private tinkering of a small > in-crowd (that communicates with some followers). > > ConTeXt is managed a bit like a small group of researchers sharing a > couple of complex and undocumented models/programs and tinkering with > them as they go along. It=92s an activity without formal design, but with > a lot of trial-and-error/testing. > > Given that status (and the fact that it has had that status for over a > /decennium/), I don=92t expect it to ever become a serious product that is > (semi-)professionally managed. I prefer content over management every > day, but something like this needs some minimal management. That > requires both time (=3Dmoney) and capabilities. Besides, the tinkering > researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to tinker. > > BTW, you can=92t be serious asking the /users/ to provide the > documentation, can you? Well, you need to keep this in mind: - we are using it ourselves (already for a long time) so we depend on it = and so we keep it going - we spend most of our company time on development and support .. and we = live with that - our roadmap does *not* include getting big (with open source as = stepping stone), *not* messing with users by selling ourselves after a = while, and *not* splitting between 'context for users' and 'context = professional or enterprise', so everyone gets what we have (which also = means that documentation will always be behind!) - we have no big projects that pay for development (from which we can = then work on documentation) .. in fact, our projects are rather niche = and special - we're quite satisfied with the users (they are demanding and creative) = ... context never aimed at one-time-users Now, we don't ask users to provide documentation, but on the other hand, = if you look at latex, lost of documentation starts at users. Maybe some day I find more time ... Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________