From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/88116 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: State of documentation of ConTeXt? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:27 +0200 Message-ID: <53C5B123.7060509@wxs.nl> References: <1642f57885676cbd1020027a2bff7c40.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53C41372.7080802@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405464900 20748 80.91.229.3 (15 Jul 2014 22:55:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:55:00 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Jul 16 00:54:53 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X7Bcb-00078H-A0 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4D910272 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 6BNHD8nAv2Q9 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:52 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C3010223 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:43 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDCC101E6 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id oYJqZ34q7tMz for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD89101E3 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp.ziggozakelijk.nl (D57D1DA2.static.ziggozakelijk.nl [213.125.29.162]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id s6FMsXB6008166 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:34 +0200 X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=10.100.1.103; Original-Received: from [10.100.1.103] (unverified [10.100.1.103]) by pragma-net.nl (SurgeMail 6.5a2) with ESMTP id 153-1713362 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:54:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 In-Reply-To: X-Authenticated-User: hagen@controller-9 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: ntg-context@ntg.nl, base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=213.125.29.162; country=NL; region=Provincie Overijssel; city=Zwolle; latitude=52.5058; longitude=6.0858; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5058,6.0858&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 03MqKSypm - e99fc45fd3ef - 20140716 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.71 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:88116 Archived-At: On 7/16/2014 12:26 AM, David Wooten wrote: > On Jul 15, 2014, at 2:59 AM, Gerben Wierda > wrote: > >> I like ConTeXt (still do, I liked its approach when I first >> encountered it). But the project is more the ongoing private tinkering >> of a small in-crowd (that communicates with some followers). >> >> ConTeXt is managed a bit like a small group of researchers sharing a >> couple of complex and undocumented models/programs and tinkering with >> them as they go along. It=92s an activity without formal design, but >> with a lot of trial-and-error/testing. >> >> Given that status (and the fact that it has had that status for over a >> /decennium/), I don=92t expect it to ever become a serious product that >> is (semi-)professionally managed. I prefer content over management >> every day, but something like this needs some minimal management. That >> requires both time (=3Dmoney) and capabilities. Besides, the tinkering >> researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to tinker. > > Agreed, though for my part with the opposite emphasis. I do not think > ConTeXt is meant to be a =93serious product=94, as in /being developed to= be > a product in the =93marketplace=94 of typesetting software =97 even open= /free > software. /My impression is exactly yours, it is being developed > primarily for the purposes of Pragma=97a small in-crowd no doubt=97but wi= th don't get me wrong: the development is to a large extend possible = because we can use it at pragma (it make sit possible to do things that = often cannot be done otherwise) but most of the features that have been = added the last years as well as numerous additional options are purely = user driven: most styles we write are rather simple .. the complexity = comes from the often messy or complex or to-be-manipulated content and = range of products; so, it being mostly user driven (but within the = constraints that we keep a relative stable core) also means that users = have a responsibility for helping with documentation > extraordinarily generous support for a small community of non-Pragma > people interested in using it. I=92m /grateful/ to have access to ConTeXt, > as for me it=92s the only sane method of typesetting the kind of documents > I wish to typeset =97 /not /LaTeX, /not /InDesign, /not /Plain TeX, =85 I > can tell you that every question or suggestion I=92ve had has been > responded to in the most generous form in this community, which I cannot > say about /any other/ platform I=92ve used, typesetting or otherwise. keep in mind that context has been part of the tex distributions for = quite a while now (nearly 20 years), that there are others than me who = know the source code pretty well (which means that it doesn't depend on = pragma), that the context crowd has been actively involved in = development of (and even triggered) general tex developments (..., = luatex, mplib, fonts, ...) so it's not as isolated as you suggest. once the move from mkii to mkiv is finishes and luatex is kind of done, = there might be time for writing more documentation; we're far from retiring of the other macro packages, plain tex is frozen, and latex dev is quite = controlled too (anyone can write additional code for any macro package) (and the context mailing list is one of the more active tex related = lists and not the smallest either) > It=92s suspect to take umbrage on another=92s behalf, but =93tinkering > researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to tinker=94 =97 It= =92s > absurd to suggest that Hans &co. are =93tinkering=94 for the sake of tink= ering. sometimes we do, when we explore new posibilities, Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________