* fluctuating baseline of header text
@ 2014-12-26 22:32 j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 9:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: j. van den hoff @ 2014-12-26 22:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
I observe a slight fluctuation of the baseline of text in the page header
when going from one page to the next.
a minimal example follows:
\setupheader [style=\smallbodyfont\ss\it]
\setupheadertexts [section]
\setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfc]
\starttext
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\stoptext
in this example (and with this font) the problem is only occuring when
toggling between pages 6/7 or 7/8 (at sufficient zoom it's easy to see),
i.e.the header is shifted downward on page 7. in other docs with different
fonts it happens across multiple pages. my guess would be it has to
do with the digit heights in the different fonts and the fact that the
page numbers are much larger than the heading, but that's only a guess.
can someone confirm the problem?
thx,joerg
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-26 22:32 fluctuating baseline of header text j. van den hoff
@ 2014-12-27 9:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2014-12-27 11:16 ` j. van den hoff
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2014-12-27 9:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
> [...]
> in this example (and with this font) the problem is only occuring when
> toggling between pages 6/7 or 7/8 (at sufficient zoom it's easy to see),
> i.e.the header is shifted downward on page 7. in other docs with different
> fonts it happens across multiple pages. my guess would be it has to
> do with the digit heights in the different fonts and the fact that the
> page numbers are much larger than the heading, but that's only a guess.
>
> can someone confirm the problem?
Hi Jörg,
this sample shows the issue without zooming:
\setuppapersize[A8]
\setupheader [style=\itx\ss]
\setupheadertexts [section]
\setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfd]
\starttext
\dorecurse{80}{\section{Introduction}
bla\page[yes]}
\stoptext
When the glyph 7 is involved in page number, baseline is a bit lower. As
you wrote, I guess this is related with the glyph metrics.
Just in case it helps,
Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-27 9:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez
@ 2014-12-27 11:16 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 12:36 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: j. van den hoff @ 2014-12-27 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Pablo Rodriguez
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:40:30 +0100, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
> On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
>> [...]
>> in this example (and with this font) the problem is only occuring when
>> toggling between pages 6/7 or 7/8 (at sufficient zoom it's easy to see),
>> i.e.the header is shifted downward on page 7. in other docs with
>> different
>> fonts it happens across multiple pages. my guess would be it has to
>> do with the digit heights in the different fonts and the fact that the
>> page numbers are much larger than the heading, but that's only a guess.
>>
>> can someone confirm the problem?
>
> Hi Jörg,
>
> this sample shows the issue without zooming:
thanks for confirming this. @devs: can this be considered "misbehaviour"
(not to call it a bug ;-)) or is it somehow unavoidable?
>
> \setuppapersize[A8]
> \setupheader [style=\itx\ss]
> \setupheadertexts [section]
> \setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfd]
> \starttext
> \dorecurse{80}{\section{Introduction}
> bla\page[yes]}
> \stoptext
>
> When the glyph 7 is involved in page number, baseline is a bit lower. As
> you wrote, I guess this is related with the glyph metrics.
yes. this seems to be supported by the fact that it happens differently
(usually more frequently) with other fonts.
joerg
>
> Just in case it helps,
>
>
> Pablo
--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-27 11:16 ` j. van den hoff
@ 2014-12-27 12:36 ` Hans Hagen
2014-12-27 14:07 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 15:35 ` j. van den hoff
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2014-12-27 12:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Pablo Rodriguez
On 12/27/2014 12:16 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:40:30 +0100, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
>
>> On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> in this example (and with this font) the problem is only occuring when
>>> toggling between pages 6/7 or 7/8 (at sufficient zoom it's easy to see),
>>> i.e.the header is shifted downward on page 7. in other docs with
>>> different
>>> fonts it happens across multiple pages. my guess would be it has to
>>> do with the digit heights in the different fonts and the fact that the
>>> page numbers are much larger than the heading, but that's only a guess.
>>>
>>> can someone confirm the problem?
>>
>> Hi Jörg,
>>
>> this sample shows the issue without zooming:
>
> thanks for confirming this. @devs: can this be considered "misbehaviour"
> (not to call it a bug ;-)) or is it somehow unavoidable?
it's not a bug at all .. you just get what you ask for
\showframe \showglyphs
your header is too small so what you want only works if the heights of
all characters are the same which is not the case here
solutions:
- use a proper height for the header
- package the header text in a box and set the height of that box
>>
>> \setuppapersize[A8]
>> \setupheader [style=\itx\ss]
>> \setupheadertexts [section]
>> \setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfd]
>> \starttext
>> \dorecurse{80}{\section{Introduction}
>> bla\page[yes]}
>> \stoptext
>>
>> When the glyph 7 is involved in page number, baseline is a bit lower. As
>> you wrote, I guess this is related with the glyph metrics.
>
> yes. this seems to be supported by the fact that it happens differently
> (usually more frequently) with other fonts.
>
> joerg
>
>>
>> Just in case it helps,
>>
>>
>> Pablo
>
>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-27 12:36 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2014-12-27 14:07 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 14:10 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 15:35 ` j. van den hoff
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: j. van den hoff @ 2014-12-27 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Pablo Rodriguez, Hans Hagen
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:36:49 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 12/27/2014 12:16 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:40:30 +0100, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/26/2014 11:32 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>> in this example (and with this font) the problem is only occuring when
>>>> toggling between pages 6/7 or 7/8 (at sufficient zoom it's easy to
>>>> see),
>>>> i.e.the header is shifted downward on page 7. in other docs with
>>>> different
>>>> fonts it happens across multiple pages. my guess would be it has to
>>>> do with the digit heights in the different fonts and the fact that the
>>>> page numbers are much larger than the heading, but that's only a
>>>> guess.
>>>>
>>>> can someone confirm the problem?
>>>
>>> Hi Jörg,
>>>
>>> this sample shows the issue without zooming:
>>
>> thanks for confirming this. @devs: can this be considered "misbehaviour"
>> (not to call it a bug ;-)) or is it somehow unavoidable?
>
> it's not a bug at all .. you just get what you ask for
good to know.
>
> \showframe \showglyphs
>
> your header is too small so what you want only works if the heights of
> all characters are the same which is not the case here
well this seems not to be the whole explanation AFAICS. it might be
correct for pablo's
example, but for my original example, which is equivalent to:
\showframe\showglyphs
\setupheader [style=\smallbodyfont\ss\it]
\setupheadertexts [section]
\setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfc]
\starttext
\dorecurse{10}{\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]}
\stoptext
I can't see that the header space is to small, no? or what am I missing?
using `\showglyphs' (which I didn't know of: thanks),
it still looks to me as if the problem is caused by the fact, that all
positions are measured from the top and
the header line's baseline is aligned with the baseline of the large page
numbers glyph boxes (although only approximately so, as far
as I can tell on my monitor...) where -- for the default font -- the
glyphbox of the `7' has a larger vertical extension than the others
(so that it extends a bit further down as measured from the top) which
causes the baseline of the header to shift downwards accordingly.
joerg
>
> solutions:
>
> - use a proper height for the header
> - package the header text in a box and set the height of that box
>
>>>
>>> \setuppapersize[A8]
>>> \setupheader [style=\itx\ss]
>>> \setupheadertexts [section]
>>> \setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfd]
>>> \starttext
>>> \dorecurse{80}{\section{Introduction}
>>> bla\page[yes]}
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> When the glyph 7 is involved in page number, baseline is a bit lower.
>>> As
>>> you wrote, I guess this is related with the glyph metrics.
>>
>> yes. this seems to be supported by the fact that it happens differently
>> (usually more frequently) with other fonts.
>>
>> joerg
>>
>>>
>>> Just in case it helps,
>>>
>>>
>>> Pablo
>>
>>
>
>
--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-27 12:36 ` Hans Hagen
2014-12-27 14:07 ` j. van den hoff
@ 2014-12-27 15:35 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 23:45 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: j. van den hoff @ 2014-12-27 15:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Pablo Rodriguez, Hans Hagen
coming back to this again, if one uses old-style numerals for the page
numbering the "problem" is aggravated:
\showframe\showglyphs
\definefontfeature [default] [default] [onum=yes]
\definefontfamily [mainface] [serif] [garamondno8]
\setupbodyfont[mainface,12pt]
\setupheader [style=\smallbodyfont\ss\it]
\setupheadertexts [section]
\setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfc]
\starttext
\dorecurse{97}{\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]}
\stoptext
now, it also is obious that the "baseline jumps" occur in the page numbers
themselves (caused mainly by the
large extension of the `6') so going, e.g., from page 25 to 26 the `2'
jumps downward quite a bit. I understand
that this is unavoidable if the positions are determined as they seemingly
are (measuring from the top and separately
for each page). what I at least would think to be nicer would be a
situation where the baseline is determined for
the _whole_ document as the minimum (lowest position on page) of all
page-wise baselines (that would be determined by the digit `6' in the
present example)
and then using _that_ baseline for all headers and page numbers which
would eliminate the jittering of header lines and page numbers.
I am aware that this will not always be the desired behaviour and that
there might be documents where header layout might not be identical
document wide,
so it might open a can of worms, but for most book-type documents I would
think this to be reasonable and desirable.
my questions:
-- would that (a common baseline for the text in all the page headers) be
better or worse than the present behaviour from a typographical point of
view?
-- if desirable, could/should it be done?
-- could such behaviour be achieved presently with some clever trick?
joerg
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:36:49 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> solutions:
> - use a proper height for the header
> - package the header text in a box and set the height of that box
--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-27 15:35 ` j. van den hoff
@ 2014-12-27 23:45 ` Hans Hagen
2014-12-28 11:39 ` j. van den hoff
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2014-12-27 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: j. van den hoff, mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 12/27/2014 4:35 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
> my questions:
>
> -- would that (a common baseline for the text in all the page headers)
> be better or worse than the present behaviour from a typographical point
> of view?
whatever variant we make, you always need to take font properties into
account when you mix sizes .. there is no general solution (at least not
one that would break other usage)
> -- if desirable, could/should it be done?
> -- could such behaviour be achieved presently with some clever trick?
\showstruts
\setuppagenumbering[style=\bfd\setcharstrut{0123456789}\strut,strut=no]
- no default strut
- calculate one based on to-be-used-characters (tight case)
- apply that one
compare it with
\setuppagenumbering[style=\bfd\setstrut\strut]
And then wikify it
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-27 23:45 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2014-12-28 11:39 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-28 17:55 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: j. van den hoff @ 2014-12-28 11:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Hans Hagen
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 00:45:32 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> -- could such behaviour be achieved presently with some clever trick?
>
> \showstruts
> \setuppagenumbering[style=\bfd\setcharstrut{0123456789}\strut,strut=no]
> - no default strut
> - calculate one based on to-be-used-characters (tight case)
> - apply that one
>
> compare it with
> \setuppagenumbering[style=\bfd\setstrut\strut]
>
thanks a lot. that indeed fixes it.
> And then wikify it
can do. although things are not yet 100% clear to me (not much to be found
in the documentation). so is this right:
-- I guess `\setstrut\strut' does set the strut to the maximum height of
all the glyphs in the used font? the explanation in 4.6 of the ref. manual
is not really telling me how the box height in the example comes about
(i.e. what the mentioned `maximal height' actually is).
-- `\setcharstrut{0123456789}': the command seems to be completely
undocumented (I could not find it in wiki and ref. manual), but it seems
clear what it does. except what do you mean by "tight case" here?
-- why is it necessary to state `strut=no' to switch of the default on top
of setting the strut explicitly?
joerg
> Hans
>
--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: fluctuating baseline of header text
2014-12-28 11:39 ` j. van den hoff
@ 2014-12-28 17:55 ` Hans Hagen
2014-12-28 18:08 ` j. van den hoff
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2014-12-28 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: j. van den hoff, mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 12/28/2014 12:39 PM, j. van den hoff wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 00:45:32 +0100, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>> -- could such behaviour be achieved presently with some clever trick?
>>
>> \showstruts
>> \setuppagenumbering[style=\bfd\setcharstrut{0123456789}\strut,strut=no]
>> - no default strut
>> - calculate one based on to-be-used-characters (tight case)
>> - apply that one
>>
>> compare it with
>> \setuppagenumbering[style=\bfd\setstrut\strut]
>>
>
> thanks a lot. that indeed fixes it.
>
>> And then wikify it
>
> can do. although things are not yet 100% clear to me (not much to be
> found in the documentation). so is this right:
>
> -- I guess `\setstrut\strut' does set the strut to the maximum height of
> all the glyphs in the used font? the explanation in 4.6 of the ref.
> manual is not really telling me how the box height in the example comes
> about (i.e. what the mentioned `maximal height' actually is).
\setstrut: ht and dp according to settings of lineheight which relates
to the x height (font property)
> -- `\setcharstrut{0123456789}': the command seems to be completely
> undocumented (I could not find it in wiki and ref. manual), but it seems
> clear what it does. except what do you mean by "tight case" here?
set the strut to match the given set of characters
> -- why is it necessary to state `strut=no' to switch of the default on
> top of setting the strut explicitly?
just try it ... i assume you don't want too much depth
Hans
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* fluctuating baseline of header text
@ 2014-12-26 22:30 j. van den hoff
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: j. van den hoff @ 2014-12-26 22:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
I observe a slight fluctuation of the baseline of text in the page header
when going from one page to the next.
a minimal example follows:
\setupheader [style=\smallbodyfont\ss\it]
\setupheadertexts [section]
\setuppagenumbering[location={header,margin}, style=\bfc]
\starttext
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\section{Introduction}
bla
\page[yes]
\stoptext
in this example (and with this font) the problem is only occuring when
toggling between pages 6/7 or 7/8 (at sufficient zoom it's easy to see),
i.e.the header is shifted downward on page 7. in other docs with different
fonts it happens across multiple pages. my guess would be it has to
do with the digit heights in the different fonts and the fact that the
page numbers are much larger than the heading, but that's only a guess.
can someone confirm the problem?
thx,joerg
--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
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2014-12-26 22:32 fluctuating baseline of header text j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 9:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2014-12-27 11:16 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 12:36 ` Hans Hagen
2014-12-27 14:07 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 14:10 ` j. van den hoff
2014-12-27 15:35 ` j. van den hoff
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