Incompatibility catcodes of characters in ConTeXt and PlainTeX

Incompatibility catcodes of characters in ConTeXt and PlainTeX

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Hello ConTeXist.
Petr Olsak (maintainer of Czech/Slovak support for TeX) helped me with 
simple typing of sign charts. He made a PlainTeX macro who is working 
too in ConTeXt (see 
http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/230273/typing-of-math-sign-charts).

Petr Olsak (not ConTeXt even LaTeX user) was modified PlainTeX macro to 
work in ConTeXt and asked the question:
"Does anybody know why ConTeXt sets catcode of & to 12? This means that 
it is incompatible with plain TeX".

May I therefore ask , what is the reason that has character & catcode 
other than in Knuth PlainTeX?
There are catcodes of other characters incompatible?

Thanx Jaroslav Hajtmar


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Re: Incompatibility catcodes of characters in ConTeXt and PlainTeX

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/27/2015 5:53 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Hello ConTeXist.
> Petr Olsak (maintainer of Czech/Slovak support for TeX) helped me with
> simple typing of sign charts. He made a PlainTeX macro who is working
> too in ConTeXt (see
> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/230273/typing-of-math-sign-charts).
>
> Petr Olsak (not ConTeXt even LaTeX user) was modified PlainTeX macro to
> work in ConTeXt and asked the question:
> "Does anybody know why ConTeXt sets catcode of & to 12? This means that
> it is incompatible with plain TeX".

Which is imo no big deal.

> May I therefore ask , what is the reason that has character & catcode
> other than in Knuth PlainTeX?
> There are catcodes of other characters incompatible?

Because the context table mechanisms don't use & (and never used it) so 
ther ei sno reason to make & special. The _ and ^ are also normal 
characters. For now we keep the $ for math (and in math mode the & ^ _ 
work as expected).

Although we're to some extend plain compatible it's not our aim, just 
like we're not amstex, latex, lamstex or anytex compatible.

Hans



-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Incompatibility catcodes of characters in ConTeXt and PlainTeX

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

Dne 27.2.2015 v 19:04 Hans Hagen napsal(a):
> On 2/27/2015 5:53 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>> Hello ConTeXist.
>> Petr Olsak (maintainer of Czech/Slovak support for TeX) helped me with
>> simple typing of sign charts. He made a PlainTeX macro who is working
>> too in ConTeXt (see
>> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/230273/typing-of-math-sign-charts). 
>>
>>
>> Petr Olsak (not ConTeXt even LaTeX user) was modified PlainTeX macro to
>> work in ConTeXt and asked the question:
>> "Does anybody know why ConTeXt sets catcode of & to 12? This means that
>> it is incompatible with plain TeX".
>
> Which is imo no big deal.
I did not write that he would give redoing some work, after discovering 
that catcode & is different than in plainTEX.
>
>> May I therefore ask , what is the reason that has character & catcode
>> other than in Knuth PlainTeX?
>> There are catcodes of other characters incompatible?
>
> Because the context table mechanisms don't use & (and never used it) 
> so ther ei sno reason to make & special. The _ and ^ are also normal 
> characters. For now we keep the $ for math (and in math mode the & ^ _ 
> work as expected).
>
> Although we're to some extend plain compatible it's not our aim, just 
> like we're not amstex, latex, lamstex or anytex compatible.
>
Ok. Thanks for the explanation. I wrote to Peter that developer context 
to have a reason, and certainly it would from an ordinary whim not done.
Even so, I am very satisfied with the degree of compatibility. 
Practically all of my old PlainTeX macros in ConTeXt work fine.
Thanx
Jaroslav

> Hans
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry 
> to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Incompatibility catcodes of characters in ConTeXt and PlainTeX

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/1/2015 7:24 AM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
> Dne 27.2.2015 v 19:04 Hans Hagen napsal(a):
>> On 2/27/2015 5:53 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>>> Hello ConTeXist.
>>> Petr Olsak (maintainer of Czech/Slovak support for TeX) helped me with
>>> simple typing of sign charts. He made a PlainTeX macro who is working
>>> too in ConTeXt (see
>>> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/230273/typing-of-math-sign-charts).
>>>
>>>
>>> Petr Olsak (not ConTeXt even LaTeX user) was modified PlainTeX macro to
>>> work in ConTeXt and asked the question:
>>> "Does anybody know why ConTeXt sets catcode of & to 12? This means that
>>> it is incompatible with plain TeX".
>>
>> Which is imo no big deal.
> I did not write that he would give redoing some work, after discovering
> that catcode & is different than in plainTEX.
>>
>>> May I therefore ask , what is the reason that has character & catcode
>>> other than in Knuth PlainTeX?
>>> There are catcodes of other characters incompatible?
>>
>> Because the context table mechanisms don't use & (and never used it)
>> so ther ei sno reason to make & special. The _ and ^ are also normal
>> characters. For now we keep the $ for math (and in math mode the & ^ _
>> work as expected).
>>
>> Although we're to some extend plain compatible it's not our aim, just
>> like we're not amstex, latex, lamstex or anytex compatible.
>>
> Ok. Thanks for the explanation. I wrote to Peter that developer context
> to have a reason, and certainly it would from an ordinary whim not done.
> Even so, I am very satisfied with the degree of compatibility.
> Practically all of my old PlainTeX macros in ConTeXt work fine.

\pushcatcodetable
\catcodetable\texcatcodes

your plain code

\popcatcodetable

but it doesn't help when sources are passed as arguments of macros under 
the normal regime


> Thanx
> Jaroslav
>
>> Hans
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
>> to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Incompatibility catcodes of characters in ConTeXt and PlainTeX

[Jaroslav Hajtmar]

One more thanx Hans for interesting and useful information
Jaroslav Hajtmar

BTW: I did not get an answer to my last mail see Re: [NTG-context] CSV 
scanners built in ConTeXt - feature or bug?
I wrote that now is splitter works properly. I would like to ask if 
you're planning to fix file util-prs.lua in a future release of 
standalone ConTeXt?

As for me, I'd rather vote for as the default option other option, ie 
which does not stop on a blank line ie. not how it's setup now (ie 
personally I'd rather vote  strict=true would mean process all lines of 
CSV file and strict=false mean stop processing on blank line), but I 
will take into account whatever alternative and consequently I would 
take into account this options for my own library.
Alan writes about this behavior as like metapost feature. Personally, I 
think that the CSV file is basically a plain text file and a blank line 
in it has its place. The end of the text file is usually marked by <eof> 
character, so I guess there's no reason to terminate processing before 
the file really ends.




Dne 1.3.2015 v 11:05 Hans Hagen napsal(a):
> On 3/1/2015 7:24 AM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>> Dne 27.2.2015 v 19:04 Hans Hagen napsal(a):
>>> On 2/27/2015 5:53 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
>>>> Hello ConTeXist.
>>>> Petr Olsak (maintainer of Czech/Slovak support for TeX) helped me with
>>>> simple typing of sign charts. He made a PlainTeX macro who is working
>>>> too in ConTeXt (see
>>>> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/230273/typing-of-math-sign-charts). 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Petr Olsak (not ConTeXt even LaTeX user) was modified PlainTeX 
>>>> macro to
>>>> work in ConTeXt and asked the question:
>>>> "Does anybody know why ConTeXt sets catcode of & to 12? This means 
>>>> that
>>>> it is incompatible with plain TeX".
>>>
>>> Which is imo no big deal.
>> I did not write that he would give redoing some work, after discovering
>> that catcode & is different than in plainTEX.
>>>
>>>> May I therefore ask , what is the reason that has character & catcode
>>>> other than in Knuth PlainTeX?
>>>> There are catcodes of other characters incompatible?
>>>
>>> Because the context table mechanisms don't use & (and never used it)
>>> so ther ei sno reason to make & special. The _ and ^ are also normal
>>> characters. For now we keep the $ for math (and in math mode the & ^ _
>>> work as expected).
>>>
>>> Although we're to some extend plain compatible it's not our aim, just
>>> like we're not amstex, latex, lamstex or anytex compatible.
>>>
>> Ok. Thanks for the explanation. I wrote to Peter that developer context
>> to have a reason, and certainly it would from an ordinary whim not done.
>> Even so, I am very satisfied with the degree of compatibility.
>> Practically all of my old PlainTeX macros in ConTeXt work fine.
>
> \pushcatcodetable
> \catcodetable\texcatcodes
>
> your plain code
>
> \popcatcodetable
>
> but it doesn't help when sources are passed as arguments of macros 
> under the normal regime
>
>
>> Thanx
>> Jaroslav
>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>>>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>>>
>>>
>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
>>> to the Wiki!
>>>
>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>>> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>>> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>>
>>
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
>> to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________