* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
@ 2010-03-27 17:43 Michael Saunders
2010-03-27 20:04 ` docs (was: Re: Microtype in ConTeXt) Peter Münster
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Michael Saunders @ 2010-03-27 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
> On 27-3-2010 1:15, Yan Zhou wrote:
>
>> As I can see now ConTeXt is indeed a far more advanced system than LaTeX. But I have one more query. Where can I find the documents. When following these replies and some other messages in the list, I find some commands not documented in the Manual or Reference Manual. In LaTeX, all commands are detailed documented in source2e.tex, in TeX, The TeXBook explains everything. So in ConTeXt, where can I find such detailed documents. I tried the documented source, but it is more like a PDF version or source with only a little documentation.
>
> as most of the functrionality does not change you can use older docs
> (website, wiki etc) for most cases
>
> newer things i.e. introduced in mkiv using luatex are described in for
> instance mk.pdf and articles
>
> of course the wiki is a good source as well
Notice that Yan Zhou isn't complaining that the docs are old. Our
problem is that they are sketchy and rambling, bits and pieces of this
and that without any systematic explanations. Often they are just
some unexplained code samples that communicate nothing (unless you
happen to be the guy who invented the language). I can't think of
one command that is fully explained along with all its possible
parameters. The wiki is better written, but even less complete. It
might not be possible to do better, but this is a huge obstacle to
anyone who actually wants to use ConTeXt. The docs hint at a lot of
features that sound better than LaTeX, but actually getting them to
work is a different story.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* docs (was: Re: Microtype in ConTeXt)
2010-03-27 17:43 Microtype in ConTeXt Michael Saunders
@ 2010-03-27 20:04 ` Peter Münster
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2010-03-27 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Sat, Mar 27 2010, Michael Saunders wrote:
> Notice that Yan Zhou isn't complaining that the docs are old. Our
> problem is that they are sketchy and rambling, bits and pieces of this
> and that without any systematic explanations. Often they are just
> some unexplained code samples that communicate nothing (unless you
> happen to be the guy who invented the language). I can't think of
> one command that is fully explained along with all its possible
> parameters. The wiki is better written, but even less complete. It
> might not be possible to do better, but this is a huge obstacle to
> anyone who actually wants to use ConTeXt. The docs hint at a lot of
> features that sound better than LaTeX, but actually getting them to
> work is a different story.
Hello Michael,
See also here:
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100308.123128.f65942c8.en.html
Cheers, Peter
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Microtype in ConTeXt
@ 2010-03-25 1:55 Yan Zhou
2010-03-25 14:09 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Yan Zhou @ 2010-03-25 1:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Dear all,
I am thinking about moving from LaTeX to ConTeXt. But there is one thing make this particularly difficult. That is the microtype LaTeX package. More specifically I have the following questions (assuming I will use MKIV and luatex)
1. I understand that ConTeXt can do margin kerning and font expansion, but is there a way to setup a configuration file for each font set. Like the mt-foo.cfg file for font family foo when using microtype in latex.
2. Is there a way to do letterspace in ConTeXt. I understand there is a command called \stretched. But what I want is the feature like the tracking option in microtype package, which can automatically letterspace all small caps. Moreover is there a way to define new sets of fonts for letterspace. For example I defined a new font shape called \capshape, which use case tags of OpenType, and I want to use letterspace this shape with certain amount all the time because I am not satisfied with the space provided by the cpsp tag of OpenType.
I am sorry for using and LaTeX terminology. I haven't start learning ConTeXt at all at this stage. I want to first know if it provide all the features I need before I spend my time on learning a new language.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 1:55 Microtype in ConTeXt Yan Zhou
@ 2010-03-25 14:09 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-25 14:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2010-03-25 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 25-3-2010 2:55, Yan Zhou wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I am thinking about moving from LaTeX to ConTeXt. But there is one thing make this particularly difficult. That is the microtype LaTeX package. More specifically I have the following questions (assuming I will use MKIV and luatex)
>
> 1. I understand that ConTeXt can do margin kerning and font expansion, but is there a way to setup a configuration file for each font set. Like the mt-foo.cfg file for font family foo when using microtype in latex.
you can define additional sets indeed an dpass the defined set as value
to the protrusion and expansion features
> 2. Is there a way to do letterspace in ConTeXt. I understand there is a command called \stretched. But what I want is the feature like the tracking option in microtype package, which can automatically letterspace all small caps. Moreover is there a way to define new sets of fonts for letterspace. For example I defined a new font shape called \capshape, which use case tags of OpenType, and I want to use letterspace this shape with certain amount all the time because I am not satisfied with the space provided by the cpsp tag of OpenType.
i have no clue what microtype does (nor time to look into it) but you
can just define a command that switches the font and enables
intercharacter spacing, something
\definecharacterkerning[mykerning]
\setupcharacterkerning[mykerning][\c!factor=.125]
\def\MySc
{\groupedcommand
{\sc\setcharacterkerning[mykerning]}
{}}
Hans
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 14:09 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2010-03-25 14:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-25 15:21 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2010-03-25 14:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 25.03.10 15:09, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> 1. I understand that ConTeXt can do margin kerning and font
>> expansion, but is there a way to setup a configuration file for each
>> font set. Like the mt-foo.cfg file for font family foo when using
>> microtype in latex.
> you can define additional sets indeed an dpass the defined set as
> value to the protrusion and expansion features
The MKIV interface (Lua only) is not very user friendly but since
Steffen Wolfrum is the only one who use his own verctors this hadn't
been a problem in the past.
>> 2. Is there a way to do letterspace in ConTeXt. I understand there is
>> a command called \stretched. But what I want is the feature like the
>> tracking option in microtype package, which can automatically
>> letterspace all small caps. Moreover is there a way to define new
>> sets of fonts for letterspace. For example I defined a new font shape
>> called \capshape, which use case tags of OpenType, and I want to use
>> letterspace this shape with certain amount all the time because I am
>> not satisfied with the space provided by the cpsp tag of OpenType.
> i have no clue what microtype does (nor time to look into it) but you
> can just define a command that switches the font and enables
> intercharacter spacing, something
>
> \definecharacterkerning[mykerning]
>
> \setupcharacterkerning[mykerning][\c!factor=.125]
>
> \def\MySc
> {\groupedcommand
> {\sc\setcharacterkerning[mykerning]}
> {}}
Who about something like (pseudocode)
\definecharacterkerning[letterspace]
\def\letterspace
{\bgroup
\dosingleempty\doletterspace}
\def\doletterspace[#1]#2% use \groupedcommand?
{\iffirstargument
\setupcharacterkerning[letterspace][factor=\ctxlua{tex.sprint(#1/1000)}]}%
\fi
\setcharacterkerning[letterspace]#2%
\egroup}
\starttext
text \letterspace{text} text \letterspace[200]{text} text
\stoptext
Wolfgang
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 14:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2010-03-25 15:21 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-25 15:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-25 18:14 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2010-03-25 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 25-3-2010 15:28, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 25.03.10 15:09, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>>> 1. I understand that ConTeXt can do margin kerning and font
>>> expansion, but is there a way to setup a configuration file for each
>>> font set. Like the mt-foo.cfg file for font family foo when using
>>> microtype in latex.
>> you can define additional sets indeed an dpass the defined set as
>> value to the protrusion and expansion features
> The MKIV interface (Lua only) is not very user friendly but since
> Steffen Wolfrum is the only one who use his own verctors this hadn't
> been a problem in the past.
>>> 2. Is there a way to do letterspace in ConTeXt. I understand there is
>>> a command called \stretched. But what I want is the feature like the
>>> tracking option in microtype package, which can automatically
>>> letterspace all small caps. Moreover is there a way to define new
>>> sets of fonts for letterspace. For example I defined a new font shape
>>> called \capshape, which use case tags of OpenType, and I want to use
>>> letterspace this shape with certain amount all the time because I am
>>> not satisfied with the space provided by the cpsp tag of OpenType.
>> i have no clue what microtype does (nor time to look into it) but you
>> can just define a command that switches the font and enables
>> intercharacter spacing, something
>>
>> \definecharacterkerning[mykerning]
>>
>> \setupcharacterkerning[mykerning][\c!factor=.125]
>>
>> \def\MySc
>> {\groupedcommand
>> {\sc\setcharacterkerning[mykerning]}
>> {}}
> Who about something like (pseudocode)
>
> \definecharacterkerning[letterspace]
>
> \def\letterspace
> {\bgroup
> \dosingleempty\doletterspace}
>
> \def\doletterspace[#1]#2% use \groupedcommand?
> {\iffirstargument
> \setupcharacterkerning[letterspace][factor=\ctxlua{tex.sprint(#1/1000)}]}%
> \fi
> \setcharacterkerning[letterspace]#2%
> \egroup}
>
> \starttext
>
> text \letterspace{text} text \letterspace[200]{text} text
looks ok, apart from the name ... we don't space letters but characters
(or glyphs) so maybe \kerncharacters or so
Hans
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 15:21 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2010-03-25 15:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-25 15:39 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-25 18:14 ` Wolfgang Schuster
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2010-03-25 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 25.03.10 16:21, schrieb Hans Hagen:
> looks ok, apart from the name ... we don't space letters but
> characters (or glyphs) so maybe \kerncharacters or so
Is it also possible to use this with fontfeatures?
\definefontfeature[kerning][kern=.125]
\starttext
{\definedfont[SerifCaps*kerning]kerned characters}
\stoptext
Wolfgang
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 15:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2010-03-25 15:39 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2010-03-25 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Wolfgang Schuster; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 25-3-2010 16:34, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 25.03.10 16:21, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> looks ok, apart from the name ... we don't space letters but
>> characters (or glyphs) so maybe \kerncharacters or so
> Is it also possible to use this with fontfeatures?
>
> \definefontfeature[kerning][kern=.125]
>
> \starttext
> {\definedfont[SerifCaps*kerning]kerned characters}
> \stoptext
hm, not now but it's no big deal to implement it
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 15:21 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-25 15:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2010-03-25 18:14 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-25 22:42 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2010-03-25 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 25.03.10 16:21, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> Who about something like (pseudocode)
>>
>> \definecharacterkerning[letterspace]
>>
>> \def\letterspace
>> {\bgroup
>> \dosingleempty\doletterspace}
>>
>> \def\doletterspace[#1]#2% use \groupedcommand?
>> {\iffirstargument
>> \setupcharacterkerning[letterspace][factor=\ctxlua{tex.sprint(#1/1000)}]}%
>>
>> \fi
>> \setcharacterkerning[letterspace]#2%
>> \egroup}
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> text \letterspace{text} text \letterspace[200]{text} text
> looks ok, apart from the name ... we don't space letters but
> characters (or glyphs) so maybe \kerncharacters or so
to be more concrete i think about this (why is the last value taken for
the complete paragraph?)
\definecharacterkerning[kerncharacters]
\unexpanded\def\kerncharacters
{\dosingleempty\dokerncharacters}
\def\dokerncharacters[#1]%
{\groupedcommand
{\iffirstargument
\setupcharacterkerning[kerncharacters][factor=\ctxlua{tex.write(#1/1000)}]%
\fi
\setcharacterkerning[kerncharacters]}
{}}
\setuphead[section][style=\sca,textstyle={\kerncharacters[250]}]
\starttext
\section{Section}
text \kerncharacters{text} text \kerncharacters[200]{text} text
\kerncharacters[2000]{text} text
text {\kerncharacters text} text {\kerncharacters[200] text} text
{\kerncharacters[2000] text} text
text \kerncharacters[200]{text} text \kerncharacters[1000]{text} text
text \kerncharacters[1000]{text} text \kerncharacters[200]{text} text
\stoptext
Wolfgang
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 18:14 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2010-03-25 22:42 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-27 0:15 ` Yan Zhou
2010-03-27 5:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2010-03-25 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Wolfgang Schuster; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 25-3-2010 19:14, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> \setupcharacterkerning[kerncharacters][factor=\ctxlua{tex.write(#1/1000)}]%
i'll add it but simply with
\setupcharacterkerning[kerncharacters][factor=#1]%
there is no reason to use a different model than we have now (also,
these 1000 based values are old fashioned tex approaches that don't make
much sense nowadays)
Hans
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Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 22:42 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2010-03-27 0:15 ` Yan Zhou
2010-03-27 9:24 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-27 5:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Yan Zhou @ 2010-03-27 0:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Thanks for all your replies. They helps a lot.
As I can see now ConTeXt is indeed a far more advanced system than LaTeX. But I have one more query. Where can I find the documents. When following these replies and some other messages in the list, I find some commands not documented in the Manual or Reference Manual. In LaTeX, all commands are detailed documented in source2e.tex, in TeX, The TeXBook explains everything. So in ConTeXt, where can I find such detailed documents. I tried the documented source, but it is more like a PDF version or source with only a little documentation.
On Mar 25, 2010, at 10:42 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 25-3-2010 19:14, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>> \setupcharacterkerning[kerncharacters][factor=\ctxlua{tex.write(#1/1000)}]%
>
> i'll add it but simply with
>
> \setupcharacterkerning[kerncharacters][factor=#1]%
>
> there is no reason to use a different model than we have now (also, these 1000 based values are old fashioned tex approaches that don't make much sense nowadays)
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
> | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-27 0:15 ` Yan Zhou
@ 2010-03-27 9:24 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2010-03-27 9:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 27-3-2010 1:15, Yan Zhou wrote:
> As I can see now ConTeXt is indeed a far more advanced system than LaTeX. But I have one more query. Where can I find the documents. When following these replies and some other messages in the list, I find some commands not documented in the Manual or Reference Manual. In LaTeX, all commands are detailed documented in source2e.tex, in TeX, The TeXBook explains everything. So in ConTeXt, where can I find such detailed documents. I tried the documented source, but it is more like a PDF version or source with only a little documentation.
as most of the functrionality does not change you can use older docs
(website, wiki etc) for most cases
newer things i.e. introduced in mkiv using luatex are described in for
instance mk.pdf and articles
of course the wiki is a good source as well
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-25 22:42 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-27 0:15 ` Yan Zhou
@ 2010-03-27 5:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-27 11:21 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2010-03-27 5:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 514 bytes --]
Am 25.03.10 23:42, schrieb Hans Hagen:
> there is no reason to use a different model than we have now (also,
> these 1000 based values are old fashioned tex approaches that don't
> make much sense nowadays)
ok, makes sense
when i set different values for certain words the last setting in a
paragraph is used for each word, is this intended?
\starttext
text \kerncharacters[.2]{text} text \kerncharacters[1]{text} text
text \kerncharacters[1]{text} text \kerncharacters[.2]{text} text
\stoptext
Wolfgang
[-- Attachment #2: kerncharacters.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 4929 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 486 bytes --]
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: Microtype in ConTeXt
2010-03-27 5:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2010-03-27 11:21 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-27 12:58 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2010-03-27 11:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Wolfgang Schuster; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 27-3-2010 6:28, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 25.03.10 23:42, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> there is no reason to use a different model than we have now (also,
>> these 1000 based values are old fashioned tex approaches that don't
>> make much sense nowadays)
> ok, makes sense
>
> when i set different values for certain words the last setting in a
> paragraph is used for each word, is this intended?
>
> \starttext
>
> text \kerncharacters[.2]{text} text \kerncharacters[1]{text} text
>
> text \kerncharacters[1]{text} text \kerncharacters[.2]{text} text
>
> \stoptext
you can test the beta on the ftp ... i reimplemented the interface
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-03-27 20:04 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2010-03-27 17:43 Microtype in ConTeXt Michael Saunders
2010-03-27 20:04 ` docs (was: Re: Microtype in ConTeXt) Peter Münster
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-03-25 1:55 Microtype in ConTeXt Yan Zhou
2010-03-25 14:09 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-25 14:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-25 15:21 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-25 15:34 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-25 15:39 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-25 18:14 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-25 22:42 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-27 0:15 ` Yan Zhou
2010-03-27 9:24 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-27 5:28 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2010-03-27 11:21 ` Hans Hagen
2010-03-27 12:58 ` Wolfgang Schuster
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