From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/88117 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Wooten Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: State of documentation of ConTeXt? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:10:45 -0700 Message-ID: <557C4A17-2C57-4326-A406-60303619D6A4@trichotomic.net> References: <1642f57885676cbd1020027a2bff7c40.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53C41372.7080802@wxs.nl> <53C5B123.7060509@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405465891 31237 80.91.229.3 (15 Jul 2014 23:11:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:11:31 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Jul 16 01:11:26 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X7Bsc-00044N-2k for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925EC10293 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id rxWECRVRYFWr for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:25 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C7B10223 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:16 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C950101E6 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id DUKfBMZyu3nE for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (filter2-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.70]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63805101E3 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from server.farwestmillwork.com (server.farwestmillwork.com [66.116.103.196]) by filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id s6FNB4ca031461 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 01:11:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server.farwestmillwork.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81067E523DF for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:11:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at farwestmillwork.com Original-Received: from server.farwestmillwork.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.farwestmillwork.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4BcQZ1JGI6VT for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.42.66] (50-0-33-21.dsl.static.sonic.net [50.0.33.21]) by server.farwestmillwork.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB938E523BC for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:10:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53C5B123.7060509@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: ntg-context@ntg.nl, base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=66.116.103.196; country=US; region=Nevada; city=Vegas; latitude=36.1750; longitude=-115.1372; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.1750,-115.1372&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0QMqLb4qL - a49b375fa2ce - 20140716 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.70 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:88117 Archived-At: As is said most often here in California, that=92s just your opinion Hans! = ;) On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > On 7/16/2014 12:26 AM, David Wooten wrote: >> On Jul 15, 2014, at 2:59 AM, Gerben Wierda > > wrote: >> = >>> I like ConTeXt (still do, I liked its approach when I first >>> encountered it). But the project is more the ongoing private tinkering >>> of a small in-crowd (that communicates with some followers). >>> = >>> ConTeXt is managed a bit like a small group of researchers sharing a >>> couple of complex and undocumented models/programs and tinkering with >>> them as they go along. It=92s an activity without formal design, but >>> with a lot of trial-and-error/testing. >>> = >>> Given that status (and the fact that it has had that status for over a >>> /decennium/), I don=92t expect it to ever become a serious product that >>> is (semi-)professionally managed. I prefer content over management >>> every day, but something like this needs some minimal management. That >>> requires both time (=3Dmoney) and capabilities. Besides, the tinkering >>> researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to tinker. >> = >> Agreed, though for my part with the opposite emphasis. I do not think >> ConTeXt is meant to be a =93serious product=94, as in /being developed t= o be >> a product in the =93marketplace=94 of typesetting software =97 even ope= n/free >> software. /My impression is exactly yours, it is being developed >> primarily for the purposes of Pragma=97a small in-crowd no doubt=97but w= ith > = > don't get me wrong: the development is to a large extend possible because= we can use it at pragma (it make sit possible to do things that often cann= ot be done otherwise) but most of the features that have been added the las= t years as well as numerous additional options are purely user driven: most= styles we write are rather simple .. the complexity comes from the often m= essy or complex or to-be-manipulated content and range of products; so, it = being mostly user driven (but within the constraints that we keep a relativ= e stable core) also means that users have a responsibility for helping with= documentation > = >> extraordinarily generous support for a small community of non-Pragma >> people interested in using it. I=92m /grateful/ to have access to ConTeX= t, >> as for me it=92s the only sane method of typesetting the kind of documen= ts >> I wish to typeset =97 /not /LaTeX, /not /InDesign, /not /Plain TeX, =85 I >> can tell you that every question or suggestion I=92ve had has been >> responded to in the most generous form in this community, which I cannot >> say about /any other/ platform I=92ve used, typesetting or otherwise. > = > keep in mind that context has been part of the tex distributions for quit= e a while now (nearly 20 years), that there are others than me who know the= source code pretty well (which means that it doesn't depend on pragma), th= at the context crowd has been actively involved in development of (and even= triggered) general tex developments (..., luatex, mplib, fonts, ...) so it= 's not as isolated as you suggest. > = > once the move from mkii to mkiv is finishes and luatex is kind of done, t= here might be time for writing more documentation; we're far from retiring > = > of the other macro packages, plain tex is frozen, and latex dev is quite = controlled too (anyone can write additional code for any macro package) > = > (and the context mailing list is one of the more active tex related lists= and not the smallest either) > = >> It=92s suspect to take umbrage on another=92s behalf, but =93tinkering >> researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to tinker=94 =97 I= t=92s >> absurd to suggest that Hans &co. are =93tinkering=94 for the sake of tin= kering. > = > sometimes we do, when we explore new posibilities, > = > Hans > = > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com > | www.pragma-pod.nl > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to= the Wiki! > = > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-co= ntext > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________