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* \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files
@ 2016-01-16 11:24 Jan U. Hasecke
  2016-01-16 12:31 ` Schmitz Thomas A.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jan U. Hasecke @ 2016-01-16 11:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

Dear list,

some time ago I ask for a way to selectively suppress ligatures. Hans
told me to use the replacement feature.

- http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2015/083044.html
- http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2015/083034.html

In another thread a solution with the translate module was shown

http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/37465/323
http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/28746/323

Both solutions work fine if I use them in a simple context file, but I
can't use neither solution in my xml processing.

I use a customized version of the from-pandoc-to-context solution of Pablo.

When I place the replacement commands somewhere in the style file I get
no result. I can see no error message. The file is compiled just fine
but without replacements.

Has anyone yet implemented replacements in xml processing and can give
me a hint where to place the commands?

TIA
juh


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files
  2016-01-16 11:24 \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files Jan U. Hasecke
@ 2016-01-16 12:31 ` Schmitz Thomas A.
  2016-01-16 14:58   ` Jan U. Hasecke
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Schmitz Thomas A. @ 2016-01-16 12:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:24, Jan U. Hasecke <juh+ntg-context@mailbox.org> wrote:
> 
> Both solutions work fine if I use them in a simple context file, but I
> can't use neither solution in my xml processing.
> 
> I use a customized version of the from-pandoc-to-context solution of Pablo.
> 
> When I place the replacement commands somewhere in the style file I get
> no result. I can see no error message. The file is compiled just fine
> but without replacements.
> 
> Has anyone yet implemented replacements in xml processing and can give
> me a hint where to place the commands?

Please provide a minimal example of your problem. It’s impossible to help when we have no clue what you’re doing.

Thomas
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files
  2016-01-16 12:31 ` Schmitz Thomas A.
@ 2016-01-16 14:58   ` Jan U. Hasecke
  2016-01-17 19:05     ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jan U. Hasecke @ 2016-01-16 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 456 bytes --]

Am 16.01.2016 um 13:31 schrieb Schmitz Thomas A.:
> 
> Please provide a minimal example of your problem. It’s impossible to
> help when we have no clue what you’re doing.

Sorry, of course.

After setting up a mwe I found that it is a font related issue.

When I don't specify a font, it works. --> example.tex

When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex

I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.

juh



[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: example.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex; name="example.tex", Size: 427 bytes --]

\startbuffer[demo]
<p>auflösen, fließend</p>
\stopbuffer

\startxmlsetups xml:initialize
         \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p}{xml:*}
    \stopxmlsetups

\xmlregistersetup{xml:initialize}

\startxmlsetups xml:p
    \xmlflush{#1}
\stopxmlsetups

\setupbodyfont
    [mainface, 16pt]

\replaceword[sellig][auflösen][au{fl}ösen]
\setreplacements[sellig]

\starttext
     \xmlprocessbuffer{main}{demo}{}
\stoptext

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #3: example-Garamond.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex; name="example-Garamond.tex", Size: 493 bytes --]

\startbuffer[demo]
<p>auflösen, fließend</p>
\stopbuffer

\startxmlsetups xml:initialize
         \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p}{xml:*}
    \stopxmlsetups

\xmlregistersetup{xml:initialize}

\startxmlsetups xml:p
    \xmlflush{#1}
\stopxmlsetups

\definefontfamily
    [mainface]
    [rm]
    [EB Garamond]

\setupbodyfont
    [mainface, 16pt]

\replaceword[sellig][auflösen][au{fl}ösen]
\setreplacements[sellig]

\starttext
     \xmlprocessbuffer{main}{demo}{}
\stoptext

[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files
  2016-01-16 14:58   ` Jan U. Hasecke
@ 2016-01-17 19:05     ` Hans Hagen
  2016-01-18  6:31       ` Jan U. Hasecke
  2016-01-18  9:16       ` Ligatures in EB Garamond (was: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files) Jan U. Hasecke
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-01-17 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

On 1/16/2016 3:58 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
> Am 16.01.2016 um 13:31 schrieb Schmitz Thomas A.:
>>
>> Please provide a minimal example of your problem. It’s impossible to
>> help when we have no clue what you’re doing.
>
> Sorry, of course.
>
> After setting up a mwe I found that it is a font related issue.
>
> When I don't specify a font, it works. --> example.tex
>
> When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex
>
> I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.

don't assume that ligatures are always real ligatures ... in that font 
it's just kerning .. this kind of works okay:

\replaceword[sellig][auflösen][auf{-}{}{\zwnj}lösen]



-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
       tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files
  2016-01-17 19:05     ` Hans Hagen
@ 2016-01-18  6:31       ` Jan U. Hasecke
  2016-01-18 10:12         ` Hans Hagen
  2016-01-18  9:16       ` Ligatures in EB Garamond (was: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files) Jan U. Hasecke
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jan U. Hasecke @ 2016-01-18  6:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

Am 17.01.2016 um 20:05 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> On 1/16/2016 3:58 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>>
>> When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex
>>
>> I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.
> 
> don't assume that ligatures are always real ligatures ... in that font
> it's just kerning .. this kind of works okay:
> 
> \replaceword[sellig][auflösen][auf{-}{}{\zwnj}lösen]


Thanks a lot. This was new to me.

juh
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Ligatures in EB Garamond (was: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files)
  2016-01-17 19:05     ` Hans Hagen
  2016-01-18  6:31       ` Jan U. Hasecke
@ 2016-01-18  9:16       ` Jan U. Hasecke
  2016-01-18 10:09         ` Ligatures in EB Garamond Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jan U. Hasecke @ 2016-01-18  9:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

Am 17.01.2016 um 20:05 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> On 1/16/2016 3:58 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>> Am 16.01.2016 um 13:31 schrieb Schmitz Thomas A.:
>>>
>>> Please provide a minimal example of your problem. It’s impossible to
>>> help when we have no clue what you’re doing.
>>
>> Sorry, of course.
>>
>> After setting up a mwe I found that it is a font related issue.
>>
>> When I don't specify a font, it works. --> example.tex
>>
>> When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex
>>
>> I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.
> 
> don't assume that ligatures are always real ligatures ... in that font
> it's just kerning .. this kind of works okay:
> 
> \replaceword[sellig][auflösen][auf{-}{}{\zwnj}lösen]

I am confused as the specimen of EB Garamond mentions (real) ligatures.
They are listed as glyphs.

https://github.com/georgd/EB-Garamond/blob/master/specimen/Specimen.pdf

juh
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Ligatures in EB Garamond
  2016-01-18  9:16       ` Ligatures in EB Garamond (was: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files) Jan U. Hasecke
@ 2016-01-18 10:09         ` Hans Hagen
  2016-01-18 12:46           ` Jan U. Hasecke
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-01-18 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

On 1/18/2016 10:16 AM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
> Am 17.01.2016 um 20:05 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> On 1/16/2016 3:58 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>>> Am 16.01.2016 um 13:31 schrieb Schmitz Thomas A.:
>>>>
>>>> Please provide a minimal example of your problem. It’s impossible to
>>>> help when we have no clue what you’re doing.
>>>
>>> Sorry, of course.
>>>
>>> After setting up a mwe I found that it is a font related issue.
>>>
>>> When I don't specify a font, it works. --> example.tex
>>>
>>> When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex
>>>
>>> I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.
>>
>> don't assume that ligatures are always real ligatures ... in that font
>> it's just kerning .. this kind of works okay:
>>
>> \replaceword[sellig][auflösen][auf{-}{}{\zwnj}lösen]
>
> I am confused as the specimen of EB Garamond mentions (real) ligatures.
> They are listed as glyphs.
>
> https://github.com/georgd/EB-Garamond/blob/master/specimen/Specimen.pdf

maybe the archaic st ligature is a precomposed but f f l i aren't done 
that way but by either kerning or replacement of individual glyphs + 
kerning (there are many methods for this) ... also, 'liga' might mean 
ligature but in practice is used for all kind of things ... in opentype 
'ligature substitution' is just a many-to-one replacement but that 
doesn't mean that 'liga' uses that ... welcome to the inconsistent open 
type mess

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
       tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files
  2016-01-18  6:31       ` Jan U. Hasecke
@ 2016-01-18 10:12         ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-01-18 10:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

On 1/18/2016 7:31 AM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
> Am 17.01.2016 um 20:05 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> On 1/16/2016 3:58 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>>>
>>> When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex
>>>
>>> I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.
>>
>> don't assume that ligatures are always real ligatures ... in that font
>> it's just kerning .. this kind of works okay:
>>
>> \replaceword[sellig][auflösen][auf{-}{}{\zwnj}lösen]
>
> Thanks a lot. This was new to me.

there are many hidden tricks ... to be revealed in due time (so that we 
can suggest that it was just implemented)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
       tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Ligatures in EB Garamond
  2016-01-18 10:09         ` Ligatures in EB Garamond Hans Hagen
@ 2016-01-18 12:46           ` Jan U. Hasecke
  2016-01-18 19:22             ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jan U. Hasecke @ 2016-01-18 12:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

Am 18.01.2016 um 11:09 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> On 1/18/2016 10:16 AM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>> Am 17.01.2016 um 20:05 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>>> On 1/16/2016 3:58 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>>>> Am 16.01.2016 um 13:31 schrieb Schmitz Thomas A.:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please provide a minimal example of your problem. It’s impossible to
>>>>> help when we have no clue what you’re doing.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, of course.
>>>>
>>>> After setting up a mwe I found that it is a font related issue.
>>>>
>>>> When I don't specify a font, it works. --> example.tex
>>>>
>>>> When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex
>>>>
>>>> I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.
>>>
>>> don't assume that ligatures are always real ligatures ... in that font
>>> it's just kerning .. this kind of works okay:
>>>
>>> \replaceword[sellig][auflösen][auf{-}{}{\zwnj}lösen]
>>
>> I am confused as the specimen of EB Garamond mentions (real) ligatures.
>> They are listed as glyphs.
>>
>> https://github.com/georgd/EB-Garamond/blob/master/specimen/Specimen.pdf
> 
> maybe the archaic st ligature is a precomposed but f f l i aren't done
> that way but by either kerning or replacement of individual glyphs +
> kerning (there are many methods for this) ... also, 'liga' might mean
> ligature but in practice is used for all kind of things ... in opentype
> 'ligature substitution' is just a many-to-one replacement but that
> doesn't mean that 'liga' uses that ... welcome to the inconsistent open
> type mess
> 

Mh, yes. :-(

Two additional questions. Shall I file a bugreport for this issue? What
would be the right words: please provide real ligature glyphs instead of
composed ones?

EB Garamond is a free font also in the sense free of charge. But what
can I expect when I buy a commercial font? I would be quite annoyed when
I buy a font which does not provide the features in a way that I can use
them in ConTeXt.

Is there a font quality page on the Wiki with a feature comparison?

juh

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Ligatures in EB Garamond
  2016-01-18 12:46           ` Jan U. Hasecke
@ 2016-01-18 19:22             ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-01-18 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3263 bytes --]

On 1/18/2016 1:46 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
> Am 18.01.2016 um 11:09 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> On 1/18/2016 10:16 AM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>>> Am 17.01.2016 um 20:05 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>>>> On 1/16/2016 3:58 PM, Jan U. Hasecke wrote:
>>>>> Am 16.01.2016 um 13:31 schrieb Schmitz Thomas A.:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please provide a minimal example of your problem. It’s impossible to
>>>>>> help when we have no clue what you’re doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> After setting up a mwe I found that it is a font related issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I don't specify a font, it works. --> example.tex
>>>>>
>>>>> When I choose EB Garamond, it does not work. -- example-Garamond.tex
>>>>>
>>>>> I confirmed this behaviour in my real setup.
>>>>
>>>> don't assume that ligatures are always real ligatures ... in that font
>>>> it's just kerning .. this kind of works okay:
>>>>
>>>> \replaceword[sellig][auflösen][auf{-}{}{\zwnj}lösen]
>>>
>>> I am confused as the specimen of EB Garamond mentions (real) ligatures.
>>> They are listed as glyphs.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/georgd/EB-Garamond/blob/master/specimen/Specimen.pdf
>>
>> maybe the archaic st ligature is a precomposed but f f l i aren't done
>> that way but by either kerning or replacement of individual glyphs +
>> kerning (there are many methods for this) ... also, 'liga' might mean
>> ligature but in practice is used for all kind of things ... in opentype
>> 'ligature substitution' is just a many-to-one replacement but that
>> doesn't mean that 'liga' uses that ... welcome to the inconsistent open
>> type mess
>>
>
> Mh, yes. :-(
>
> Two additional questions. Shall I file a bugreport for this issue? What
> would be the right words: please provide real ligature glyphs instead of
> composed ones?

there are many fonts out that that do similar things replacing f an i by 
different shapes, or overlaying, or kerning, or replacing by one char, 
looking forward (from f to i) or backward (from i to f) ... as all is 
technically possible/permitted nothing is a bug (but there might be 
occasional differences between hyphenation although quite some effort 
went into getting that kind of right ... and it makes a good topic for 
complex hard to follow boring presentations (see attachment)

(btw, sometimes glyphs get funny non standard names in which case 
roundtrip copy/paste becomes a mess)

> EB Garamond is a free font also in the sense free of charge. But what
> can I expect when I buy a commercial font? I would be quite annoyed when
> I buy a font which does not provide the features in a way that I can use
> them in ConTeXt.

you can expect the same ... in fact you can also expect type1 -> otf 
converted fonts with hardly any use of opentype features

> Is there a font quality page on the Wiki with a feature comparison?

that would be nice (has been discussed)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
       tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2016-01-18 19:22 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2016-01-16 11:24 \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files Jan U. Hasecke
2016-01-16 12:31 ` Schmitz Thomas A.
2016-01-16 14:58   ` Jan U. Hasecke
2016-01-17 19:05     ` Hans Hagen
2016-01-18  6:31       ` Jan U. Hasecke
2016-01-18 10:12         ` Hans Hagen
2016-01-18  9:16       ` Ligatures in EB Garamond (was: \replaceword and \setreplacements with xml files) Jan U. Hasecke
2016-01-18 10:09         ` Ligatures in EB Garamond Hans Hagen
2016-01-18 12:46           ` Jan U. Hasecke
2016-01-18 19:22             ` Hans Hagen

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