* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-12 0:53 ` Alan BRASLAU
@ 2016-03-14 8:05 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing.
2016-03-15 16:54 ` Alan BRASLAU
2016-03-14 8:52 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2016-05-20 4:39 ` docent.einstein
2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Procházka Lukáš Ing. @ 2016-03-14 8:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2113 bytes --]
Hello,
one more thing:
It would be nice to allow mixing:
- \section like commands (or \startsection ... \stopsection)
- AND \startsectionlevel ... \stopsectionlevel.
The main problem is that one may NEED to mix:
- (ancient) source files which use \section (deprecated) style
- with more versatile \start-\stopsectionlevel style in newer source files.
See the test attached - only the case 3 works universally with the \start-\stopstructurelevel;
any mixing of sectioning styles doesn't yield a desired result.
Best regards,
Lukas
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 01:53:18 +0100, Alan BRASLAU <alan.braslau@cea.fr> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 09:36:01 +0100
> Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Mica, but which is the gain in nesting sections (whether
>> possible or not) over using subsections and subsubsections?
>>
>> I can hardly imagine the sense in the point you’re making. (Sorry, it
>> must be my fault.)
>
> Think about including source in another source, for example.
>
> Say one has an article that becomes a book, or gets included in a book,
> or the book gets parts. In the course of writing, one might decide to
> add an additional level of structure and not want to change all of the
> \start...\stop structure definitions.
>
> In fact, using fixed section, subsection, subsubsection is a bit
> antiquated, isn't it?
>
> Alan
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
--
Ing. Lukáš Procházka | mailto:LPr@pontex.cz
Pontex s. r. o. | mailto:pontex@pontex.cz | http://www.pontex.cz
Bezová 1658
147 14 Praha 4
Tel: +420 241 096 751
Fax: +420 244 461 038
[-- Attachment #2: Str.mkiv --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 547 bytes --]
\starttext
\chapter{Ch}
\section{Sec}
\subsection{SSec}
\startsectionlevel[title={SSSec}]
\stopsectionlevel
\chapter{Ch2}
\startsection[title={Sec2}]
\startsubsection[title={SSec2}]
\startsectionlevel[title={SSSec2}]
\stopsectionlevel
\stopsubsection
\stopsection
\startsectionlevel[title={Ch3}]
\startsectionlevel[title={Sec3}]
\startsectionlevel[title={SSec3}]
\stopsectionlevel
\stopsectionlevel
\stopsectionlevel
\stoptext
[-- Attachment #3: Str.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 8534 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-14 8:05 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing.
@ 2016-03-15 16:54 ` Alan BRASLAU
2016-03-15 17:10 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Alan BRASLAU @ 2016-03-15 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Indeed, Hans, it would be nice to be able to nest sectionlevels within
a chapter...section... scheme (which is NOT depreciated, although
antiquated).
Currently, \startsectionlevel will by default start a chapter. One
would like it to start a section if located within a chapter, a
subsection, if located within a section, etc. This should be possible.
Alan
On Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:05:49 +0100
Procházka Lukáš Ing. <LPr@pontex.cz> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> one more thing:
>
> It would be nice to allow mixing:
>
> - \section like commands (or \startsection ... \stopsection)
> - AND \startsectionlevel ... \stopsectionlevel.
>
> The main problem is that one may NEED to mix:
>
> - (ancient) source files which use \section (deprecated) style
> - with more versatile \start-\stopsectionlevel style in newer source
> files.
>
> See the test attached - only the case 3 works universally with the
> \start-\stopstructurelevel; any mixing of sectioning styles doesn't
> yield a desired result.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lukas
>
>
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 01:53:18 +0100, Alan BRASLAU
> <alan.braslau@cea.fr> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 09:36:01 +0100
> > Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry, Mica, but which is the gain in nesting sections (whether
> >> possible or not) over using subsections and subsubsections?
> >>
> >> I can hardly imagine the sense in the point you’re making. (Sorry,
> >> it must be my fault.)
> >
> > Think about including source in another source, for example.
> >
> > Say one has an article that becomes a book, or gets included in a
> > book, or the book gets parts. In the course of writing, one might
> > decide to add an additional level of structure and not want to
> > change all of the \start...\stop structure definitions.
> >
> > In fact, using fixed section, subsection, subsubsection is a bit
> > antiquated, isn't it?
> >
> > Alan
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
> > entry to the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage :
> > http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive :
> > http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki :
> > http://contextgarden.net
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
--
Alan Braslau
CEA DSM-IRAMIS-SPEC
CNRS UMR 3680
Orme des Merisiers
91191 Gif-sur-Yvette cedex FRANCE
tel: +33 1 69 08 73 15
fax: +33 1 69 08 87 86
mailto:alan.braslau@cea.fr
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-15 16:54 ` Alan BRASLAU
@ 2016-03-15 17:10 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2016-03-15 19:09 ` Alan BRASLAU
2016-03-24 21:08 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2016-03-15 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 03/15/2016 05:54 PM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> Indeed, Hans, it would be nice to be able to nest sectionlevels within
> a chapter...section... scheme (which is NOT depreciated, although
> antiquated).
Oooh, shiny! In the TEI community, there are also people who repeat that
having <div>s all the way down is modern, and <div1><div2> etc. is old
hat. Well, I like to think about the way I structure my texts before I
write them. I'm old fashioned that way...
But seriously: by all means, let's allow nesting. But don't let anyone
tell you that explicit names are "antiquated." They make TeX or xml
source documents so much more readable! And when you have to retrace
five levels of \startsectionlevels because you want to change the
structure of your document, you will rue the day you abandoned proper names.
Thomas
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-15 17:10 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
@ 2016-03-15 19:09 ` Alan BRASLAU
2016-03-24 21:11 ` Hans Hagen
2016-03-24 21:08 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Alan BRASLAU @ 2016-03-15 19:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas A. Schmitz; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:10:27 +0100
"Thomas A. Schmitz" <thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> But don't let anyone
> tell you that explicit names are "antiquated." They make TeX or xml
> source documents so much more readable! And when you have to retrace
> five levels of \startsectionlevels because you want to change the
> structure of your document, you will rue the day you abandoned proper
> names.
When you want to change the structure of your document when using
structure levels, all that you need do is add or subtract a level of
nesting. With named levels, it is easy to create complicated documents
that jump around in level, which would be pretty messy.
What a nightmare it would be to add or subtract a named structure level
in a complicated document.
This being said, I still mostly use named structure levels myself, as
old habits are hard to change (but don't tell Hans this!).
Alan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-15 19:09 ` Alan BRASLAU
@ 2016-03-24 21:11 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-03-24 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Thomas A. Schmitz
On 3/15/2016 8:09 PM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:10:27 +0100
> "Thomas A. Schmitz" <thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>
>> But don't let anyone
>> tell you that explicit names are "antiquated." They make TeX or xml
>> source documents so much more readable! And when you have to retrace
>> five levels of \startsectionlevels because you want to change the
>> structure of your document, you will rue the day you abandoned proper
>> names.
>
> When you want to change the structure of your document when using
> structure levels, all that you need do is add or subtract a level of
> nesting. With named levels, it is easy to create complicated documents
> that jump around in level, which would be pretty messy.
on the other hand, when you look at a piece of coded document you no
longer know if you're in an important chapter or unimportant
subsubsubsubsubsubsection
so, in the end it all boils down to circumstances and usage which is why
we have several methods
> What a nightmare it would be to add or subtract a named structure level
> in a complicated document.
>
> This being said, I still mostly use named structure levels myself, as
> old habits are hard to change (but don't tell Hans this!).
ha, well, if i remember right this nested anonymous sectioning was added
on your request .. so it is now one of those orphaned features
anyway, i tend to replace
\chapter{foo}
by
\startchapter[title=foo]
\stopchapter
but at a much lower level keep using \subsubsection and alike
(also because then with chapters one can more conveniently set other
properties)
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-15 17:10 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2016-03-15 19:09 ` Alan BRASLAU
@ 2016-03-24 21:08 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-03-24 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 3/15/2016 6:10 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> On 03/15/2016 05:54 PM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
>> Indeed, Hans, it would be nice to be able to nest sectionlevels within
>> a chapter...section... scheme (which is NOT depreciated, although
>> antiquated).
>
> Oooh, shiny! In the TEI community, there are also people who repeat that
> having <div>s all the way down is modern, and <div1><div2> etc. is old
> hat. Well, I like to think about the way I structure my texts before I
> write them. I'm old fashioned that way...
>
> But seriously: by all means, let's allow nesting. But don't let anyone
> tell you that explicit names are "antiquated." They make TeX or xml
> source documents so much more readable! And when you have to retrace
> five levels of \startsectionlevels because you want to change the
> structure of your document, you will rue the day you abandoned proper
> names.
they are not antiquated at all
the main benefit from using \startchapter ... \stopchapter instead of
\chapter is that we then know where something end which is handy when
you want to finish things before starting something new (esp when
grouping is involved it can get messy otherwise) ... it's also easier on
the export
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-12 0:53 ` Alan BRASLAU
2016-03-14 8:05 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing.
@ 2016-03-14 8:52 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2016-05-20 4:39 ` docent.einstein
2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2016-03-14 8:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 03/12/2016 01:53 AM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 09:36:01 +0100 Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> [...]
>> I can hardly imagine the sense in the point you’re making. (Sorry, it
>> must be my fault.)
>
> Think about including source in another source, for example.
>
> Say one has an article that becomes a book, or gets included in a book,
> or the book gets parts. In the course of writing, one might decide to
> add an additional level of structure and not want to change all of the
> \start...\stop structure definitions.
>
> In fact, using fixed section, subsection, subsubsection is a bit
> antiquated, isn't it?
Many thanks for your reply, Alan.
The usual suspect was found guilty: it was my fault not realizing that
fixed sectioning commands are outdated.
Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Are nested sections possible?
2016-03-12 0:53 ` Alan BRASLAU
2016-03-14 8:05 ` Procházka Lukáš Ing.
2016-03-14 8:52 ` Pablo Rodriguez
@ 2016-05-20 4:39 ` docent.einstein
2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: docent.einstein @ 2016-05-20 4:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3474 bytes --]
Zdravim Lukasi,
Nejsem si jisty, zda se nemylim, ale pokud jsi z Brna, pak bych Te rad pozdravil.
Radek Pysny
______________________________________________________________
> Od: Procházka Lukáš Ing. <LPr@pontex.cz>
> Komu: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Datum: 14.03.2016 09:05
> Předmět: Re: [NTG-context] Are nested sections possible?
>
Hello,
one more thing:
It would be nice to allow mixing:
- \section like commands (or \startsection ... \stopsection)
- AND \startsectionlevel ... \stopsectionlevel.
The main problem is that one may NEED to mix:
- (ancient) source files which use \section (deprecated) style
- with more versatile \start-\stopsectionlevel style in newer source files.
See the test attached - only the case 3 works universally with the \start-\stopstructurelevel;
any mixing of sectioning styles doesn't yield a desired result.
Best regards,
Lukas
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 01:53:18 +0100, Alan BRASLAU <alan.braslau@cea.fr> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 09:36:01 +0100
> Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Mica, but which is the gain in nesting sections (whether
>> possible or not) over using subsections and subsubsections?
>>
>> I can hardly imagine the sense in the point you’re making. (Sorry, it
>> must be my fault.)
>
> Think about including source in another source, for example.
>
> Say one has an article that becomes a book, or gets included in a book,
> or the book gets parts. In the course of writing, one might decide to
> add an additional level of structure and not want to change all of the
> \start...\stop structure definitions.
>
> In fact, using fixed section, subsection, subsubsection is a bit
> antiquated, isn't it?
>
> Alan
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context <http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context>
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl <http://www.pragma-ade.nl> / http://tex.aanhet.net <http://tex.aanhet.net>
> archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ <http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/>
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net <http://contextgarden.net>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
--
Ing. Lukáš Procházka | mailto:LPr@pontex.cz
Pontex s. r. o. | mailto:pontex@pontex.cz | http://www.pontex.cz <http://www.pontex.cz>
Bezová 1658
147 14 Praha 4
Tel: +420 241 096 751
Fax: +420 244 461 038
----------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context <http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context>
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl <http://www.pragma-ade.nl> / http://tex.aanhet.net <http://tex.aanhet.net>
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ <http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/>
wiki : http://contextgarden.net <http://contextgarden.net>
___________________________________________________________________________________
[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 4658 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread