Re: Alignment for narrower text

Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 30.01.2014 um 20:08 schrieb Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz>:

> Dear All,
> 
> how can I specify the alignment of narrower text, 'hanging' in my case?

What do you expect from the output?

Wolfgang
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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2014-01-30 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 30.01.2014 um 20:08 schrieb Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz>:
> >
> > how can I specify the alignment of narrower text, 'hanging' in my
> > case?
> 
> What do you expect from the output?
> 

I'd expect that starting french quote sign outside the left text edge -
similarly like it is aligned the main flow when the hanging feature is
enabled.

Now I've found it works as expected when the indenting is disabled:

\definefontfamily[palatino][rm][Palatino Linotype][features={default,
quality}]
\setupbodyfont[palatino]
\setupalign[hz, hanging]
%\setupindenting[medium, yes]  % this helped

\starttext
\input{tufte}
\setupnarrower[left=1cm]
\startnarrower[left]
\it
>this is,\par
just sample.<\par
\stopnarrower
\input{tufte}
\stoptext

Can I have both the main flow indentation and the proper alignment of the
narrow text block?

Thanks for any hint,

Jan

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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2014-01-30 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> 
> I'd expect that starting french quote sign outside the left text edge -
> similarly like it is aligned the main flow when the hanging feature is
> enabled.
> 
> Now I've found it works as expected when the indenting is disabled...
> 

http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=884

After recent improvements I've tested this older issue, but it is still
problematic.

When that \setupindenting is uncommented, french quote is not hanged.

Just updating the status :-)

Jan

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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/30/2016 8:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> On 2014-01-30 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>>
>> I'd expect that starting french quote sign outside the left text edge -
>> similarly like it is aligned the main flow when the hanging feature is
>> enabled.
>>
>> Now I've found it works as expected when the indenting is disabled...
>>
>
> http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=884
>
> After recent improvements I've tested this older issue, but it is still
> problematic.
>
> When that \setupindenting is uncommented, french quote is not hanged.
>
> Just updating the status :-)

indenting prohibits protrusion

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
       tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2016-03-31 Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/30/2016 8:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> > On 2014-01-30 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd expect that starting french quote sign outside the left 
> >> text edge - similarly like it is aligned the main flow when 
> >> the hanging feature is enabled.
> >>
> >> Now I've found it works as expected when the indenting is
> >> disabled...
> >
> > http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=884
> 
> indenting prohibits protrusion
> 

Good to know, thanks. I take it rather as a limitation.

Use case:
- book uses global indentation
- there is poem typeset in narrower block
- there is punctuation in the first verse which disrupt optical margin alignment

Are there alternative ways?

Btw, from end user perspective I'd expect it should work by default without further tweaking.

Jan

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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/31/2016 9:28 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> On 2016-03-31 Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 3/30/2016 8:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>>> On 2014-01-30 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd expect that starting french quote sign outside the left
>>>> text edge - similarly like it is aligned the main flow when
>>>> the hanging feature is enabled.
>>>>
>>>> Now I've found it works as expected when the indenting is
>>>> disabled...
>>>
>>> http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=884
>>
>> indenting prohibits protrusion
>>
>
> Good to know, thanks. I take it rather as a limitation.
>
> Use case:
> - book uses global indentation
> - there is poem typeset in narrower block
> - there is punctuation in the first verse which disrupt optical margin alignment
>
> Are there alternative ways?

in your example you use indentation to get a narrower block (and as each 
line is a paragraph each line gets an indent box prepended) .. you 
should use leftskip (\startnarrower...) in such cases

> Btw, from end user perspective I'd expect it should work by default without further tweaking.

so what if someone has

\hbox{some image or whatever unknonws}<character>

should character overflow into the box?

how is tex supposed to know the intentions

so if all gets a boundary mark in the end you end up with as many 
exceptions (maybe more) than when you get now

> Jan
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>


-- 

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2016-04-01 Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/31/2016 9:28 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> > On 2016-03-31 Hans Hagen wrote:
> >> On 3/30/2016 8:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >>>
> >>> http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=884
> >>
> >> indenting prohibits protrusion
> >>
> > Are there alternative ways?
> 
> you should use leftskip (\startnarrower...) in such cases

thanks, but I am lost here. The following has impact on the left margin and it doesn't help to hang the initial quote...

\definefontfamily[palatino][rm][Palatino Linotype][features={default, quality}]
\setupbodyfont[palatino]
\setupalign[hz, hanging]
\setupindenting[medium, yes]

\starttext
\input{tufte}
{\leftskip=1cm
\startnarrower
\it
»this is,\par
just sample.«\par
\stopnarrower
}
\input{tufte}
\stoptext

Jan

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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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> Hans Hagen <mailto:pragma@wxs.nl>
> 1. April 2016 um 09:21
> On 3/31/2016 9:28 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>> On 2016-03-31 Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 3/30/2016 8:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>>>> On 2014-01-30 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd expect that starting french quote sign outside the left
>>>>> text edge - similarly like it is aligned the main flow when
>>>>> the hanging feature is enabled.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I've found it works as expected when the indenting is
>>>>> disabled...
>>>>
>>>> http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=884
>>>
>>> indenting prohibits protrusion
>>>
>>
>> Good to know, thanks. I take it rather as a limitation.
>>
>> Use case:
>> - book uses global indentation
>> - there is poem typeset in narrower block
>> - there is punctuation in the first verse which disrupt optical 
>> margin alignment
>>
>> Are there alternative ways?
>
> in your example you use indentation to get a narrower block (and as 
> each line is a paragraph each line gets an indent box prepended) .. 
> you should use leftskip (\startnarrower...) in such cases
This is a bad example because there is no problem with \leftskip.

What he means is that protrusion at the left margin doesn’t at the begin 
of a paragraph when you use indentation.

%%% begin example
\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]

\setupbodyfont[modern-designsize]

\setupalign[hanging]

\setupbackgrounds[text][leftframe=on]

\starttext

“How does this look?”

When you a short paragraph with a quotattion mark at the beginning above
another paragraph without a quotation mark the letters at the start of
both paragraph don’t align.

\blank[3*line]\setupindenting[yes,medium]

“How does this look?”

When you a short paragraph with a quotattion mark at the beginning above
another paragraph without a quotation mark the letters at the start of
both paragraph don’t align.

\blank[3*line]

\dontleavehmode\llap{“}How does this look?”

When you a short paragraph with a quotattion mark at the beginning above
another paragraph without a quotation mark the letters at the start of
both paragraph don’t align.

\stoptext
%%% end example

Wolfgang

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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2016-04-02 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> On 2016-04-01, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> > On 2016-04-01 Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > On 2016-03-31, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> > > >
> > > > http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=884
> > > >
> > > > Use case:
> > > > - book uses global indentation
> > > > - there is poem typeset in narrower block
> > > > - there is punctuation in the first verse which disrupt
> > > >   optical margin alignment
> > >
> > > in your example you use indentation to get a narrower block 
> > > (and as each line is a paragraph each line gets an indent 
> > > box prepended) you should use leftskip (\startnarrower...) 
> > > in such cases
> >
> > I'm lost here (...example...)
>
> This is a bad example because there is no problem with \leftskip.
> 
> What he means is that protrusion at the left margin doesn’t 
> at the begin of a paragraph when you use indentation.

Thanks for examples. I'll finally use another approach - disabling indentation locally:

\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]

\setupbodyfont[modern-designsize]

\setupalign[hanging]

\setupbackgrounds[text][leftframe=on]

\starttext

\setupindenting[yes,medium]

\input{tufte}

{\noindenting
\startnarrower
“line1\par
line2\par
line3\par
line4.
\stopnarrower
}

\input{tufte}

\stoptext

While protrusion in this case may look ugly, it is consistent with the rest.

I thought Hans could also mean something like example below, but while leftskip should 'indent' all lines inside paragraph, it works only for the first one. Moreover, protrusion is not applied as well. And \crlf doesn't seem to be soft linebreak as it behaves like normal \par command - which is most likely explanation for that indenting issue.

{\leftskip=2cm
“line1\crlf
line2\crlf
line3\crlf
line4.
}

Anyway, I found acceptable solution (noindenting).

Jan

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Re: Alignment for narrower text

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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> Jan Tosovsky <mailto:j.tosovsky@email.cz>
> 2. April 2016 um 23:42
> I thought Hans could also mean something like example below, but while 
> leftskip should 'indent' all lines inside paragraph, it works only for 
> the first one. Moreover, protrusion is not applied as well. And \crlf 
> doesn't seem to be soft linebreak as it behaves like normal \par 
> command - which is most likely explanation for that indenting issue.
>
> {\leftskip=2cm
> “line1\crlf
> line2\crlf
> line3\crlf
> line4.
> }
Indenting the whole textblock with \leftskip (or better ConTeXt’s 
narrower environment)
doesn’t prevent protrusion as can be seen in the following example.

\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]

\setupbodyfont[modern-designsize]

\starttext

“\vl Text\par
  \vl Text

\startnarrower
“\vl Text\par
  \vl Text
\stopnarrower

\blank[3*line]\setupalign[hanging]

“\vl Text\par
  \vl Text

\startnarrower
“\vl Text\par
  \vl Text
\stopnarrower

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Alignment for narrower text

[Jan Tosovsky]

Dear All,

how can I specify the alignment of narrower text, 'hanging' in my case?

\definefontfamily[palatino][rm][Palatino Linotype][features={default,
quality}]
\setupbodyfont[palatino]
\setupalign[hz, hanging]
\setupindenting[medium, yes]

\starttext
\input{tufte}
\setupnarrower[left=0cm] % surprisingly it is narrower
\startnarrower[left]
\setupalign[hz, hanging] % setting this again here has no effect
\it
>this is,\par
just sample.<\par
\stopnarrower
\input{tufte}
\stoptext

Thanks, Jan


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