* Re: Microtypography in ConTeXt
[not found] <019d01d18f7d$6e3954b0$4aabfe10$@tosovsky@email.cz>
@ 2016-04-05 21:11 ` Hans Hagen
2016-04-05 21:51 ` Jan Tosovsky
[not found] ` <01b601d18f85$61ccf760$2566e620$@tosovsky@email.cz>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-04-05 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
> pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
> (1) Character protrusion
> (2) Font expansion
> (3) Tracking
> (4) Additional kerning
> (5) Interword spacing
>
> AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?). In recent discussion Hans mentioned
> experimental 'space kerning'. Is it anything related to above features (4)?
> Are there any plans to cover the rest?
1 - protrusion is supported
2 - expansion is supported
both with variants and granularity
3 - i have no clue what tracking is
4 - neither what additional kerning is (unless you mean (usually ugly)
extra inter character kerning, which is supported)
5 - it being a rather core tex feature, normal interword spacing is
supported
the mentioned space kerning refers to kerning between characters and
spaces defined in the font itself
Hans
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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* Re: Microtypography in ConTeXt
2016-04-05 21:11 ` Microtypography in ConTeXt Hans Hagen
@ 2016-04-05 21:51 ` Jan Tosovsky
[not found] ` <01b601d18f85$61ccf760$2566e620$@tosovsky@email.cz>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jan Tosovsky @ 2016-04-05 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'mailing list for ConTeXt users'
On 2016-04-05 Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >
> > according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-
> > dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
> > pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
> > (1) Character protrusion
> > (2) Font expansion
> > (3) Tracking
> > (4) Additional kerning
> > (5) Interword spacing
> >
> > AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?) ...
> > Are there any plans to cover the rest?
>
My concern was based on this introduction (on title page), especially on that sentence marked with asterisks:
<cite>
Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), LuaTeX, or
XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 1.20 for
automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion and
expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires pdfTeX
(≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX,
************************************************
while the adjustment of interword spacing
and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).
*************************************************
Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).
</cite>
> 3 - i have no clue what tracking is
As explained in that document this seems to be a synonym for letter spacing, which is IMO supported.
> 4 - neither what additional kerning is (unless you mean (usually ugly)
> extra inter character kerning, which is supported)
Rereading the description in that document there is no advanced processing behind it, so most likely just that ugly kerning, already available in ConTeXt. Just curious why not mentioned as supported on the title page.
> 5 - it being a rather core tex feature, normal interword spacing is
> supported
This seems to be a standard glue with plus/minus value. Again, curious why not mentioned as supported on the title page.
Are you aware of any typographic feature which is available in pdfTeXt, but not in ConTeXt?
Thnaks, Jan
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* Re: Microtypography in ConTeXt
[not found] ` <01b601d18f85$61ccf760$2566e620$@tosovsky@email.cz>
@ 2016-04-06 4:48 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2016-04-06 7:37 ` Hans Hagen
2016-04-06 7:35 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2016-04-06 4:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 2016-04-06 um 03:51 schrieb Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz>:
> <cite>
> Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), LuaTeX, or
> XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 1.20 for
> automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion and
> expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires pdfTeX
> (≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX,
>
> ************************************************
> while the adjustment of interword spacing
> and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).
>
> *************************************************
>
> Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).
> </cite>
Looks like it’s not about interword spacing and kerning in itself, but their *adjustment*.
I didn’t look into that docs, but I’d assume, tracking refers to some logging or visualization of spacing.
AFAIR ConTeXt can do that very nicely (while I never used it and don’t know how to enable it).
Greetlings, Hraban
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* Re: Microtypography in ConTeXt
[not found] ` <01b601d18f85$61ccf760$2566e620$@tosovsky@email.cz>
2016-04-06 4:48 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
@ 2016-04-06 7:35 ` Hans Hagen
2016-04-06 19:03 ` Jan Tosovsky
[not found] ` <01e801d19036$f10845e0$d318d1a0$@tosovsky@email.cz>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-04-06 7:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 4/5/2016 11:51 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> On 2016-04-05 Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>>>
>>> according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-
>>> dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
>>> pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
>>> (1) Character protrusion
>>> (2) Font expansion
>>> (3) Tracking
>>> (4) Additional kerning
>>> (5) Interword spacing
>>>
>>> AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?) ...
>>> Are there any plans to cover the rest?
>>
>
> My concern was based on this introduction (on title page), especially on that sentence marked with asterisks:
>
> <cite>
> Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), LuaTeX, or
> XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 1.20 for
> automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion and
> expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires pdfTeX
> (≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX,
>
> ************************************************
> while the adjustment of interword spacing
> and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).
>
> *************************************************
>
> Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).
> </cite>
protrusion and expansion are supported at the luatex engine level but
configuration is up to the macro packages and they can follow different
approaches
the other things ... well, they are up to the macro package
>
>> 3 - i have no clue what tracking is
>
> As explained in that document this seems to be a synonym for letter spacing, which is IMO supported.
yes, context supports that (more than just letters)
>> 4 - neither what additional kerning is (unless you mean (usually ugly)
>> extra inter character kerning, which is supported)
>
> Rereading the description in that document there is no advanced processing behind it, so most likely just that ugly kerning, already available in ConTeXt. Just curious why not mentioned as supported on the title page.
what title page? anyway, one can kick in extra font features to deal
with kerns (although when a font is that bad i'd use another font)
>> 5 - it being a rather core tex feature, normal interword spacing is
>> supported
>
> This seems to be a standard glue with plus/minus value. Again, curious why not mentioned as supported on the title page.
probably because it is so standard
> Are you aware of any typographic feature which is available in pdfTeXt, but not in ConTeXt?--
pdftex is an engine so even if something is available it has to be
supported by macros
i don't think that there are typographical advantages of using pdftex
over luatex (at least not with context)
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Microtypography in ConTeXt
2016-04-06 4:48 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
@ 2016-04-06 7:37 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-04-06 7:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 4/6/2016 6:48 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Am 2016-04-06 um 03:51 schrieb Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz>:
>
>> <cite>
>> Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), LuaTeX, or
>> XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 1.20 for
>> automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion and
>> expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires pdfTeX
>> (≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX,
>>
>> ************************************************
>> while the adjustment of interword spacing
>> and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).
>>
>> *************************************************
>>
>> Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).
>> </cite>
>
> Looks like it’s not about interword spacing and kerning in itself, but their *adjustment*.
>
> I didn’t look into that docs, but I’d assume, tracking refers to some logging or visualization of spacing.
> AFAIR ConTeXt can do that very nicely (while I never used it and don’t know how to enable it).
\starttext
\start
\showfontkerns \showmakeup[glue]
\input tufte \par
\stop
\stoptext
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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* Re: Microtypography in ConTeXt
2016-04-06 7:35 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2016-04-06 19:03 ` Jan Tosovsky
[not found] ` <01e801d19036$f10845e0$d318d1a0$@tosovsky@email.cz>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jan Tosovsky @ 2016-04-06 19:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'mailing list for ConTeXt users'
On 2016-04-06 Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 4/5/2016 11:51 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> > On 2016-04-05 Hans Hagen wrote:
> >> On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >>>
> >>> according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-
> >>> dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
> >>> pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
> >>> (1) Character protrusion
> >>> (2) Font expansion
> >>> (3) Tracking
> >>> (4) Additional kerning
> >>> (5) Interword spacing
> >>>
> >>> AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?) ...
> >>> Are there any plans to cover the rest?
> >>
> > My concern was based on this introduction (on title page), especially
> > on that sentence marked with asterisks:
> >
> > ************************************************
> > ... the adjustment of interword spacing
> > and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).
> > *************************************************
>
> protrusion and expansion are supported at the luatex engine level but
> configuration is up to the macro packages and they can follow different
> approaches
>
> the other things ... well, they are up to the macro package
Indeed, you most likely figured the problem. They are mentioning luatex, while those features require ConTeXt 'preprocessing'.
> i don't think that there are typographical advantages of using pdftex
> over luatex (at least not with context)
Great, thanks! I am updating article with comparision of various engines, I'll reflect it.
Jan
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* Re: Microtypography in ConTeXt
[not found] ` <01e801d19036$f10845e0$d318d1a0$@tosovsky@email.cz>
@ 2016-04-06 19:37 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2016-04-06 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 4/6/2016 9:03 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>> the other things ... well, they are up to the macro package
>
> Indeed, you most likely figured the problem. They are mentioning luatex, while those features require ConTeXt 'preprocessing'.
i didn't read that document but i assume it refers to latex which for
sure will have some way to set up these feaures; i don't know about
plain support
in context protrusion and expansion is supported in mkii (pdftex) and
mkiv (luatex) .. in mkiv there is a bit more control
there is no preprocessing involved (these two features are just part of
the par builder)
extra kerning and so is done by manipulating node lists (so not an
engine feature but a context one)
>> i don't think that there are typographical advantages of using pdftex
>> over luatex (at least not with context)
>
> Great, thanks! I am updating article with comparision of various engines, I'll reflect it.
>
> Jan
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Microtypography in ConTeXt
@ 2016-04-05 20:55 Jan Tosovsky
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jan Tosovsky @ 2016-04-05 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'mailing list for ConTeXt users'
Dear All,
according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
(1) Character protrusion
(2) Font expansion
(3) Tracking
(4) Additional kerning
(5) Interword spacing
AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?). In recent discussion Hans mentioned
experimental 'space kerning'. Is it anything related to above features (4)?
Are there any plans to cover the rest?
Thanks, Jan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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[not found] <019d01d18f7d$6e3954b0$4aabfe10$@tosovsky@email.cz>
2016-04-05 21:11 ` Microtypography in ConTeXt Hans Hagen
2016-04-05 21:51 ` Jan Tosovsky
[not found] ` <01b601d18f85$61ccf760$2566e620$@tosovsky@email.cz>
2016-04-06 4:48 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2016-04-06 7:37 ` Hans Hagen
2016-04-06 7:35 ` Hans Hagen
2016-04-06 19:03 ` Jan Tosovsky
[not found] ` <01e801d19036$f10845e0$d318d1a0$@tosovsky@email.cz>
2016-04-06 19:37 ` Hans Hagen
2016-04-05 20:55 Jan Tosovsky
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