* Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
@ 2021-06-30 8:20 Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 9:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Ágoston Volcz @ 2021-06-30 8:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Hi there,
My university has special requirements for the theses I submit.
Layout, fonts etc. are pretty straightforward to set up in ConTeXt.
The one part I'm struggling with is citations / bibliography.
I have to use the german citation style with footnotes. Essentially
the first time I cite something, I have to put the full entry in a
footnote. From the second time on, I only have to put a shorter entry
in the footnotes.
I have two problems:
1. I created the publ-imp-deu.lua and publ-imp-deu.mkvi files. If I
put them into the
~/bin/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/ directory, I
get the following two lines in the log:
```
publications > unknown library 'deu'
publications > no data definition file 'publ-imp-deu.lua' for 'deu'
```
If I put them into the directory where my thesis is, they seem to get
recognized, but I would very much like to reuse them and not have to
copy them to each project directory. What am I doing wrong?
2. Entries in the bibliography and fist time citations must have
'normal' authorconversion, while consequent citations must have
'normalshort'. For consequent citations I defined the 'authortitle'
alternative.
In the thesis I have:
```
\usebtxdataset[default][literature.bib]
\usebtxdefinitions[deu]
\setupbtx[deu]
```
A snippet from the publ-imp-deu.mkvi:
```
\definebtx
[deu:list]
[deu]
[authorconversion=normal]
\definebtx
[deu:cite]
[deu]
[authorconversion=normalshort,
alternative=authortitle]
\startsetups btx:deu:list:book
{\sc \btxflush{author}}\btxcolon \btxflush{title}
\btxdoif{subtitle}{\btxperiod\btxflush{subtitle}}\btxperiod
\btxflush{address}\btxcolon \btxflush{publisher} \btxflush{year}
\btxdoif{series}{ (\btxflush{series} \btxflush{volume})}\btxperiod
\stopsetups
```
In the setup and definition, the fields I defined do get into the
citation correctly, but the authorconversion remains 'normal'. If I
comment out the lines which set up 'normal' authorconversion for the
list, everything, including the bibliography and 'entry' type
citations get 'normalshort'. Is that a bug or am I missing something?
Thank you,
Agoston
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 8:20 Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Ágoston Volcz
@ 2021-06-30 9:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
2021-06-30 11:28 ` Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 17:26 ` Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 18:59 ` denis.maier
2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2021-06-30 9:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1334 bytes --]
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021, Ágoston Volcz wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> My university has special requirements for the theses I submit.
> Layout, fonts etc. are pretty straightforward to set up in ConTeXt.
> The one part I'm struggling with is citations / bibliography.
> I have to use the german citation style with footnotes. Essentially
> the first time I cite something, I have to put the full entry in a
> footnote. From the second time on, I only have to put a shorter entry
> in the footnotes.
> I have two problems:
>
> 1. I created the publ-imp-deu.lua and publ-imp-deu.mkvi files. If I
> put them into the
> ~/bin/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/ directory, I
> get the following two lines in the log:
> ```
> publications > unknown library 'deu'
> publications > no data definition file 'publ-imp-deu.lua' for 'deu'
> ```
> If I put them into the directory where my thesis is, they seem to get
> recognized, but I would very much like to reuse them and not have to
> copy them to each project directory. What am I doing wrong?
Try running mtxrun --generate to update the database.
However, I think that texmf-context/... is a bad place to put local files because they can be overwritten by system update. It may be better to put them in $TEXMFHOME/tex/context/personal/...
Aditya
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --]
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 8:20 Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 9:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2021-06-30 17:26 ` Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 18:08 ` Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 18:59 ` denis.maier
2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2021-06-30 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ágoston Volcz; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 30/06/21 02:20, Ágoston Volcz wrote:
> 2. Entries in the bibliography and fist time citations must have
> 'normal' authorconversion, while consequent citations must have
> 'normalshort'. For consequent citations I defined the 'authortitle'
> alternative.
> In the thesis I have:
> ```
> \usebtxdataset[default][literature.bib]
> \usebtxdefinitions[deu]
> \setupbtx[deu]
> ```
> A snippet from the publ-imp-deu.mkvi:
> ```
> \definebtx
> [deu:list]
> [deu]
> [authorconversion=normal]
>
> \definebtx
> [deu:cite]
> [deu]
> [authorconversion=normalshort,
> alternative=authortitle]
>
> \startsetups btx:deu:list:book
> {\sc \btxflush{author}}\btxcolon \btxflush{title}
> \btxdoif{subtitle}{\btxperiod\btxflush{subtitle}}\btxperiod
> \btxflush{address}\btxcolon \btxflush{publisher} \btxflush{year}
> \btxdoif{series}{ (\btxflush{series} \btxflush{volume})}\btxperiod
> \stopsetups
>
> ```
> In the setup and definition, the fields I defined do get into the
> citation correctly, but the authorconversion remains 'normal'. If I
> comment out the lines which set up 'normal' authorconversion for the
> list, everything, including the bibliography and 'entry' type
> citations get 'normalshort'. Is that a bug or am I missing something?
I am not sure that I understand your snippet (a mwe would be useful).
However, it appears that your setup is for the "list" rendering of a
book, and you do specify authorconversion=normal for lists.
Keep in mind that the bibliography system uses inheritance so it is
important to set options in the right places. Once everything gets
initialized, changing a higher-level parameter might not propagate to
lower-level instances if they have already been defined, the inheritance
taking place at definition time.
--
Alan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 17:26 ` Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Alan Braslau
@ 2021-06-30 18:08 ` Ágoston Volcz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Ágoston Volcz @ 2021-06-30 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Braslau; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
example.tex
```
\startbuffer[example]
@book{book,
author = {First Last},
title = {Title},
subtitle = {Subtitle},
publisher = {Publisher},
address = {City},
year = {2021} }
\stopbuffer
\usebtxdataset[example.buffer]
\usebtxdefinitions[deu]
\starttext
\cite[entry][book]
\cite[authortitle][book]
\placelistofpublications
\stoptext
```
publ-imp-deu.mkvi
```
\startbtxrenderingdefinitions[deu]
\definebtx
[deu]
[default=default, specification=deu]
\definebtxrendering
[deu]
[specification=deu, sorttype={author,title}, numbering=num]
\definebtx
[deu:list]
[deu]
\definebtx
[deu:list:author]
[deu:list]
[authorconversion=normal]
\definebtx
[deu:list:book]
[deu]
\definebtx
[deu:cite]
[deu]
\definebtx
[deu:cite:authortitle]
[deu]
[authorconversion=normalshort]
\startsetups btx:deu:list:book
\btxflush{author}\btxcolon\btxflush{title}\btxperiod
\btxdoif{subtitle}{\btxflush{subtitle}\btxperiod}
\btxflush{address}\btxcolon\btxflush{publisher}
\btxflush{year}\btxperiod
\stopsetups
\startsetups btx:deu:cite:authortitle
\btxflush{author}\btxcolon\btxflush{title}\btxperiod
\btxdoif{subtitle}{\btxflush{subtitle}\btxperiod}
\stopsetups
\stopbtxrenderingdefinitions
```
This is the shortest example I could get, some lines got very long but
I did not want it be too many lines. If I compile this, I get:
(First Last: Title. Subtitle. City: Publisher 2021.)
First Last: Title. Subtitle.
1 First Last: Title. Subtitle. City: Publisher 2021.
Agoston
Am Mi., 30. Juni 2021 um 19:26 Uhr schrieb Alan Braslau
<braslau.list@comcast.net>:
>
> On 30/06/21 02:20, Ágoston Volcz wrote:
> > 2. Entries in the bibliography and fist time citations must have
> > 'normal' authorconversion, while consequent citations must have
> > 'normalshort'. For consequent citations I defined the 'authortitle'
> > alternative.
> > In the thesis I have:
> > ```
> > \usebtxdataset[default][literature.bib]
> > \usebtxdefinitions[deu]
> > \setupbtx[deu]
> > ```
> > A snippet from the publ-imp-deu.mkvi:
> > ```
> > \definebtx
> > [deu:list]
> > [deu]
> > [authorconversion=normal]
> >
> > \definebtx
> > [deu:cite]
> > [deu]
> > [authorconversion=normalshort,
> > alternative=authortitle]
> >
> > \startsetups btx:deu:list:book
> > {\sc \btxflush{author}}\btxcolon \btxflush{title}
> > \btxdoif{subtitle}{\btxperiod\btxflush{subtitle}}\btxperiod
> > \btxflush{address}\btxcolon \btxflush{publisher} \btxflush{year}
> > \btxdoif{series}{ (\btxflush{series} \btxflush{volume})}\btxperiod
> > \stopsetups
> >
> > ```
> > In the setup and definition, the fields I defined do get into the
> > citation correctly, but the authorconversion remains 'normal'. If I
> > comment out the lines which set up 'normal' authorconversion for the
> > list, everything, including the bibliography and 'entry' type
> > citations get 'normalshort'. Is that a bug or am I missing something?
>
> I am not sure that I understand your snippet (a mwe would be useful).
> However, it appears that your setup is for the "list" rendering of a
> book, and you do specify authorconversion=normal for lists.
>
> Keep in mind that the bibliography system uses inheritance so it is
> important to set options in the right places. Once everything gets
> initialized, changing a higher-level parameter might not propagate to
> lower-level instances if they have already been defined, the inheritance
> taking place at definition time.
>
> --
> Alan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 8:20 Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 9:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
2021-06-30 17:26 ` Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Alan Braslau
@ 2021-06-30 18:59 ` denis.maier
2021-06-30 19:11 ` Alan Braslau
2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: denis.maier @ 2021-06-30 18:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Hi,
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von Ágoston Volcz
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 10:20
> An: ntg-context@ntg.nl
> Betreff: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and
> bibliographic entries
>
> Hi there,
>
> My university has special requirements for the theses I submit.
> Layout, fonts etc. are pretty straightforward to set up in ConTeXt.
> The one part I'm struggling with is citations / bibliography.
> I have to use the german citation style with footnotes. Essentially the first time I
> cite something, I have to put the full entry in a footnote. From the second time
> on, I only have to put a shorter entry in the footnotes.
Is this first citation vs other citations thing currently possible with ConTeXt? I was thinking that there was no proper support for note style citations in ConTeXt? Has that changed? I remember reading the phrase "We may add additional citation styles if there demand and clear requirements exist." So what's the current state of affairs here?
Denis
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 18:59 ` denis.maier
@ 2021-06-30 19:11 ` Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 19:40 ` denis.maier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2021-06-30 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, denis.maier
On 30/06/21 12:59, denis.maier@unibe.ch wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: ntg-context<ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von Ágoston Volcz
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 10:20
>> An:ntg-context@ntg.nl
>> Betreff: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and
>> bibliographic entries
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> My university has special requirements for the theses I submit.
>> Layout, fonts etc. are pretty straightforward to set up in ConTeXt.
>> The one part I'm struggling with is citations / bibliography.
>> I have to use the german citation style with footnotes. Essentially the first time I
>> cite something, I have to put the full entry in a footnote. From the second time
>> on, I only have to put a shorter entry in the footnotes.
> Is this first citation vs other citations thing currently possible with ConTeXt? I was thinking that there was no proper support for note style citations in ConTeXt? Has that changed? I remember reading the phrase "We may add additional citation styles if there demand and clear requirements exist." So what's the current state of affairs here?
>
> Denis
Indeed (one can always use \footnote{} but that might not be a good
substitute for a proper footnote citation style.
I do not use footnote citations as a general style (and personally
dislike it, finding them somewhat distracting and sloppy). Yet these are
popular in many fields and there is no reason not to support it.
--
Alan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 19:11 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2021-06-30 19:40 ` denis.maier
2021-06-30 21:49 ` Alan Braslau
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: denis.maier @ 2021-06-30 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: braslau.list, ntg-context
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net>
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 21:11
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>; Maier, Denis Christian
> (UB) <denis.maier@unibe.ch>
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation alternatives
> and bibliographic entries
>
> On 30/06/21 12:59, denis.maier@unibe.ch wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: ntg-context<ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von Ágoston
> >> Volcz
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 10:20 An:ntg-context@ntg.nl
> >> Betreff: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation
> >> alternatives and bibliographic entries
> >>
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> My university has special requirements for the theses I submit.
> >> Layout, fonts etc. are pretty straightforward to set up in ConTeXt.
> >> The one part I'm struggling with is citations / bibliography.
> >> I have to use the german citation style with footnotes. Essentially
> >> the first time I cite something, I have to put the full entry in a
> >> footnote. From the second time on, I only have to put a shorter entry in the
> footnotes.
> > Is this first citation vs other citations thing currently possible with ConTeXt? I
> was thinking that there was no proper support for note style citations in
> ConTeXt? Has that changed? I remember reading the phrase "We may add
> additional citation styles if there demand and clear requirements exist." So
> what's the current state of affairs here?
> >
> > Denis
>
> Indeed (one can always use \footnote{} but that might not be a good substitute
> for a proper footnote citation style.
>
> I do not use footnote citations as a general style (and personally dislike it,
> finding them somewhat distracting and sloppy). Yet these are popular in many
> fields and there is no reason not to support it.
So what would be needed to make add real support for it?
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 19:40 ` denis.maier
@ 2021-06-30 21:49 ` Alan Braslau
2021-07-01 13:09 ` J Huisman
2021-07-02 8:00 ` denis.maier
0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2021-06-30 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: denis.maier; +Cc: ntg-context
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 19:40:06 +0000
<denis.maier@unibe.ch> wrote:
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net>
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 21:11
> > An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>; Maier,
> > Denis Christian (UB) <denis.maier@unibe.ch>
> > Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation
> > alternatives and bibliographic entries
> >
> > On 30/06/21 12:59, denis.maier@unibe.ch wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > >> Von: ntg-context<ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von
> > >> Ágoston Volcz
> > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 10:20 An:ntg-context@ntg.nl
> > >> Betreff: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation
> > >> alternatives and bibliographic entries
> > >>
> > >> Hi there,
> > >>
> > >> My university has special requirements for the theses I submit.
> > >> Layout, fonts etc. are pretty straightforward to set up in
> > >> ConTeXt. The one part I'm struggling with is citations /
> > >> bibliography. I have to use the german citation style with
> > >> footnotes. Essentially the first time I cite something, I have
> > >> to put the full entry in a footnote. From the second time on, I
> > >> only have to put a shorter entry in the
> > footnotes.
> > > Is this first citation vs other citations thing currently
> > > possible with ConTeXt? I
> > was thinking that there was no proper support for note style
> > citations in ConTeXt? Has that changed? I remember reading the
> > phrase "We may add additional citation styles if there demand and
> > clear requirements exist." So what's the current state of affairs
> > here?
> > >
> > > Denis
> >
> > Indeed (one can always use \footnote{} but that might not be a good
> > substitute for a proper footnote citation style.
> >
> > I do not use footnote citations as a general style (and personally
> > dislike it, finding them somewhat distracting and sloppy). Yet
> > these are popular in many fields and there is no reason not to
> > support it.
>
> So what would be needed to make add real support for it?
First of all, come to a consensus on a clear style guide to base this
on, so as not to run after ambiguous and perhaps contradictory
specifications. This would be distinct from the APA (author-year) model
as well as from the minimalist APS (numbered) style. Could this perhaps
be the Chicago style? (does that have a footnote specification?)
Secondly, identify users who would be willing to spend time testing and
giving feedback.
Thirdly, motivate Hans and myself to spend time on this (implementing
or helping implement), for neither of us use the footnote style.
So it can be done, and such a model is presently missing.
Alan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 21:49 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2021-07-01 13:09 ` J Huisman
[not found] ` <20210701094214.7c69a7b2@poo.hsd1.co.comcast.net>
2021-07-02 8:00 ` denis.maier
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: J Huisman @ 2021-07-01 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Chicago-style footnote user here,
I would be interested in helping with testing.
Jelle
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 11:50 PM Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 19:40:06 +0000
> <denis.maier@unibe.ch> wrote:
>
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net>
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 21:11
> > > An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>; Maier,
> > > Denis Christian (UB) <denis.maier@unibe.ch>
> > > Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation
> > > alternatives and bibliographic entries
> > >
> > > On 30/06/21 12:59, denis.maier@unibe.ch wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > >> Von: ntg-context<ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von
> > > >> Ágoston Volcz
> > > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 10:20 An:ntg-context@ntg.nl
> > > >> Betreff: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation
> > > >> alternatives and bibliographic entries
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi there,
> > > >>
> > > >> My university has special requirements for the theses I submit.
> > > >> Layout, fonts etc. are pretty straightforward to set up in
> > > >> ConTeXt. The one part I'm struggling with is citations /
> > > >> bibliography. I have to use the german citation style with
> > > >> footnotes. Essentially the first time I cite something, I have
> > > >> to put the full entry in a footnote. From the second time on, I
> > > >> only have to put a shorter entry in the
> > > footnotes.
> > > > Is this first citation vs other citations thing currently
> > > > possible with ConTeXt? I
> > > was thinking that there was no proper support for note style
> > > citations in ConTeXt? Has that changed? I remember reading the
> > > phrase "We may add additional citation styles if there demand and
> > > clear requirements exist." So what's the current state of affairs
> > > here?
> > > >
> > > > Denis
> > >
> > > Indeed (one can always use \footnote{} but that might not be a good
> > > substitute for a proper footnote citation style.
> > >
> > > I do not use footnote citations as a general style (and personally
> > > dislike it, finding them somewhat distracting and sloppy). Yet
> > > these are popular in many fields and there is no reason not to
> > > support it.
> >
> > So what would be needed to make add real support for it?
>
> First of all, come to a consensus on a clear style guide to base this
> on, so as not to run after ambiguous and perhaps contradictory
> specifications. This would be distinct from the APA (author-year) model
> as well as from the minimalist APS (numbered) style. Could this perhaps
> be the Chicago style? (does that have a footnote specification?)
>
> Secondly, identify users who would be willing to spend time testing and
> giving feedback.
>
> Thirdly, motivate Hans and myself to spend time on this (implementing
> or helping implement), for neither of us use the footnote style.
>
> So it can be done, and such a model is presently missing.
>
> Alan
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-06-30 21:49 ` Alan Braslau
2021-07-01 13:09 ` J Huisman
@ 2021-07-02 8:00 ` denis.maier
2021-07-02 8:02 ` denis.maier
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: denis.maier @ 2021-07-02 8:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: braslau.list; +Cc: ntg-context
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net>
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 23:50
> An: Maier, Denis Christian (UB) <denis.maier@unibe.ch>
> Cc: ntg-context@ntg.nl
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation alternatives
> and bibliographic entries
>
[...]
> >
> > So what would be needed to make add real support for it?
>
> First of all, come to a consensus on a clear style guide to base this on, so as not
> to run after ambiguous and perhaps contradictory specifications. This would be
> distinct from the APA (author-year) model as well as from the minimalist APS
> (numbered) style. Could this perhaps be the Chicago style? (does that have a
> footnote specification?)
Chicago is certainly not a bad choice for this. It's probably one of the most complete footnote specifications out there. (I knows multiple variants though, so you need to settle for one or support both.)
One thing to be aware of is that Chicago is utterly complex. Other styles like MHRA are a bit simpler. This complexity might be an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time. It may be hard to get this completely right. The already mentioned biblatex-chicago package shows how much is involved. OTOH, if you get this right that should cover almost everything that might come up in note based styles.
Denis
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
2021-07-02 8:00 ` denis.maier
@ 2021-07-02 8:02 ` denis.maier
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: denis.maier @ 2021-07-02 8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: braslau.list; +Cc: ntg-context
Oh, and needless to say, I'd be happy to help with this.
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Maier, Denis Christian (UB)
> Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Juli 2021 10:01
> An: 'Alan Braslau' <braslau.list@comcast.net>
> Cc: ntg-context@ntg.nl
> Betreff: AW: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation alternatives
> and bibliographic entries
>
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net>
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Juni 2021 23:50
> > An: Maier, Denis Christian (UB) <denis.maier@unibe.ch>
> > Cc: ntg-context@ntg.nl
> > Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Different authorconversion for citation
> > alternatives and bibliographic entries
> >
> [...]
> > >
> > > So what would be needed to make add real support for it?
> >
> > First of all, come to a consensus on a clear style guide to base this
> > on, so as not to run after ambiguous and perhaps contradictory
> > specifications. This would be distinct from the APA (author-year)
> > model as well as from the minimalist APS
> > (numbered) style. Could this perhaps be the Chicago style? (does that
> > have a footnote specification?)
>
> Chicago is certainly not a bad choice for this. It's probably one of the most
> complete footnote specifications out there. (I knows multiple variants though,
> so you need to settle for one or support both.) One thing to be aware of is that
> Chicago is utterly complex. Other styles like MHRA are a bit simpler. This
> complexity might be an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time. It may
> be hard to get this completely right. The already mentioned biblatex-chicago
> package shows how much is involved. OTOH, if you get this right that should
> cover almost everything that might come up in note based styles.
>
> Denis
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries
@ 2021-08-28 1:11 Joey McCollum via ntg-context
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Joey McCollum via ntg-context @ 2021-08-28 1:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Joey McCollum
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-08-28 1:11 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-06-30 8:20 Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 9:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
2021-06-30 11:28 ` Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 16:06 ` Hans Hagen
2021-06-30 17:00 ` path for custom files (was Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries) Jan U. Hasecke
2021-06-30 17:14 ` Hans Hagen
2021-06-30 17:26 ` Different authorconversion for citation alternatives and bibliographic entries Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 18:08 ` Ágoston Volcz
2021-06-30 18:59 ` denis.maier
2021-06-30 19:11 ` Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 19:40 ` denis.maier
2021-06-30 21:49 ` Alan Braslau
2021-07-01 13:09 ` J Huisman
[not found] ` <20210701094214.7c69a7b2@poo.hsd1.co.comcast.net>
2021-07-01 18:46 ` Gavin
2021-07-02 8:00 ` denis.maier
2021-07-02 8:02 ` denis.maier
2021-08-28 1:11 Joey McCollum via ntg-context
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