From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/98057 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mathias Schickel Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Position of prime for derivatives Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:14 +0200 Message-ID: <5CC0CA5A-E8BC-4DC5-B473-A9619D86426A@fa.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <0c0ed94e-af8d-570a-9069-3d25ff26776e@wxs.nl> <4BD3817A-415E-4A1B-B601-793334801D84@gmail.com> <0C9C66C2-05BF-4F8D-B040-87317FDC6017@gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0500431552980124642==" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1495533539 15995 195.159.176.226 (23 May 2017 09:58:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:58:59 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue May 23 11:58:54 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dD6ac-00044E-N2 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF1F103639; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zMwyKQZuC_Ep; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:28 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD7C10363A; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:28 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D39D103635 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9e6HL8blBeHd for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mx04.uni-tuebingen.de (mx04.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.5.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0812C103634 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from math.uni-tuebingen.de (kyle.am10.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.182.22]) by mx04.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6B0C5C351 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.14] (ip-37-201-5-30.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de [37.201.5.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: msch) by math.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F2641E0AC0 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:58:15 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <0C9C66C2-05BF-4F8D-B040-87317FDC6017@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:98057 Archived-At: --===============0500431552980124642== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4B65604E-FEB7-4F04-B5CF-671003DB674C" --Apple-Mail=_4B65604E-FEB7-4F04-B5CF-671003DB674C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Mikael and Otared, I can confirm issues regarding primes, too. If you are using the STIX 2 = fonts (http://www.stixfonts.org ) and my = example below you get a somewhat strange behaviour of primes that is = pretty obvious. I think the issues should be fixed. By the way the issue seems to depend to some extend on the fonts. Using = Lucida by \setupbodyfont[lucidaot] it is not that obvious but still = present. Using Latin Modern it seems that the spacing between the primes = changes between f'' and f^{''}. Cambria seems to show that behaviour = (like Latin Modern), too, but less obvious. Best regards Mathias %% example=20 \unprotect \definefontfeature [stixtwo-math-feature] [kern=3Dyes, ss01=3Dno, % calligraphic letters ss02=3Dyes, % lowercase italic variants (e.g. open = g) ss03=3Dno, % hbar und lambdabar variants ss04=3Dyes, % larger and lower primes, minute etc. ss05=3Dno, % shorter arrows ss06=3Dno, % narrower and shorter element and = similar symbols ss07=3Dno, % some smaller operators and emptyset = variant ss08=3Dyes, % upright integrals etc. ss09=3Dno, % variant negated symbols ss10=3Dyes, % variants of greater and lesser and = similar symbols ss11=3Dyes, % variant of negated set (inclusion = etc.) symbols ss14=3Dyes, %=20 ss16=3Dyes] % variants of circled operators \starttypescriptcollection[Stix2] =09 \starttypescript [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!all] \definefontsynonym [Stix2Regular] [file:STIX2Text-Regular.otf] \definefontsynonym [Stix2Bold] [file:STIX2Text-Bold.otf] \definefontsynonym [Stix2Italic] [file:STIX2Text-Italic.otf] \definefontsynonym [Stix2BoldItalic] [file:STIX2Text-BoldItalic.otf] =20 \definefontsynonym[\s!Serif] [Stix2Regular] = [\s!features=3D\s!default] \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBold] [Stix2Bold] = [\s!features=3D\s!default] \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifItalic] [Stix2Italic] = [\s!features=3D\s!default] \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBoldItalic] [Stix2BoldItalic] = [\s!features=3D\s!default] \stoptypescript =20 \starttypescript [\s!math] [Stix2] \definefontsynonym [Stix2Math] [file:STIX2Math.otf] [features=3Dmath\mathsizesuffix] \definefontsynonym [\s!MathRoman] [Stix2Math] = [\s!features=3D{\s!math\mathsizesuffix,mathextra,stixtwo-math-feature},\s!= designsize=3D\s!auto] \stoptypescript \starttypescript [Stix2] \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [Stix2] = [\s!default] \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!mm] [\s!math] [Stix2] = [\s!default] \stoptypescript \stoptypescriptcollection \protect \setupbodyfont[Stix2] \starttext % Compare $f'$ to $(f')$ and to $f''$, $(f'')$, $f^{''}$ and $(f^{''})$. % \stoptext %% end of example > Am 22.05.2017 um 09:50 schrieb Otared Kavian : >=20 > Hi Mikael, >=20 > You are correct, the position of \prime depends on whether there is a = next character or not after it, and it seems that this has an effect on = its position for characters having a subscript as in > $f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$=20 > $f'f''f'=E2=80=99'$ > Best regards: OK >=20 >> On 22 May 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist = wrote: >>=20 >> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian = wrote: >>> Hi Mikael, >>>=20 >>> I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the = \prime operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, = while in mkii it is the most satisfying (in my opinion=E2=80=A6). >>>=20 >>> The turn around consisting in using $f^{=E2=80=98=E2=80=99}$ or = $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really = satisfying either. >>>=20 >>> But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv. >>>=20 >>> Best regards: OK >>>=20 >>>> On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist = wrote: >>>> [=E2=80=A6] >>>>=20 >>>> And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf, >>>> compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there = look >>>> better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is >>>> important for all people writing math with ConTeXt. >>>>=20 >>>> /Mikael >>>>=20 >>>> \RequirePackage{luatex85} >>>> \documentclass[border=3D2pt]{standalone} >>>>=20 >>>> \usepackage{unicode-math} >>>> \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT} >>>> \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT} >>>>=20 >>>> \begin{document} >>>> $f'f''$ >>>> \end{document} >>>> = ______________________________________________________________= _____________________ >>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an = entry to the Wiki! >>>>=20 >>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / = http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >>>> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >>>> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >>>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >>>> = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ >>>=20 >>> = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ >>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an = entry to the Wiki! >>>=20 >>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / = http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >>> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >>> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >>> = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ >>=20 >> Otared, thank you for confirmation. I also hope there will be a fix = soon. >>=20 >> In the meantime, I put yet another test file. The location of the >> primes depends on the next character (I use, at the moment current >> version: 2017.05.15 21:48) >>=20 >> /Mikael >>=20 >> \definefontfamily[myface][rm][Lucida Bright OT] >> \definefontfamily[myface][mm][Lucida Bright Math OT] >> \setupbodyfont[myface,10pt] >> \starttext >> \startTEXpage[offset=3D2pt] >> $f'(x)f''(x)f'f''$ >> \stopTEXpage >> \stoptext >> = ____________________________________________________________= _______________________ >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an = entry to the Wiki! >>=20 >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / = http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry = to the Wiki! >=20 > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / = http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ --Apple-Mail=_4B65604E-FEB7-4F04-B5CF-671003DB674C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Mikael and Otared,

I can confirm issues regarding primes, too. If you are using = the STIX 2 fonts (http://www.stixfonts.org) and my example below you get a = somewhat strange behaviour of primes that is pretty obvious. I think the = issues should be fixed.

By the way the issue seems to depend to some extend on the = fonts. Using Lucida by \setupbodyfont[lucidaot] it is not that obvious = but still present. Using Latin Modern it seems that the spacing between = the primes changes between f'' and f^{''}. Cambria seems to show that = behaviour (like Latin Modern), too, but less obvious.

Best regards
Mathias

%% example 
\unprotect

\definefontfeature
= [stixtwo-math-feature]
= [kern=3Dyes,
ss01=3Dno,    % = calligraphic letters
ss02=3Dyes, % = lowercase italic variants (e.g. open g)
= ss03=3Dno,= % hbar und lambdabar variants
= ss04=3Dyes, % larger and lower primes, minute = etc.
ss05=3Dno, % shorter = arrows
ss06=3Dno, % = narrower and shorter element and similar symbols
= ss07=3Dno,= % some smaller operators and emptyset variant
= ss08=3Dyes, % upright integrals = etc.
ss09=3Dno, % variant = negated symbols
ss10=3Dyes, % = variants of greater and lesser and similar symbols
= ss11=3Dyes, % variant of negated set = (inclusion etc.) symbols
= ss14=3Dyes, % 
= ss16=3Dyes] % variants of circled = operators

\starttypescriptcollection[Stix2]
=
\starttypescript [\s!serif] = [Stix2] [\s!all]
= \definefontsynonym
      =       [Stix2Regular]
    =         [file:STIX2Text-Regular.otf]
        \definefontsynonym
            = [Stix2Bold]
          =   [file:STIX2Text-Bold.otf]
    =     \definefontsynonym
    =         [Stix2Italic]
  =           [file:STIX2Text-Italic.otf]
        \definefontsynonym
            = [Stix2BoldItalic]
        =     [file:STIX2Text-BoldItalic.otf]     =  
        = \definefontsynonym[\s!Serif] [Stix2Regular] = [\s!features=3D\s!default]
      =   \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBold] [Stix2Bold] = [\s!features=3D\s!default]
      =   \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifItalic] [Stix2Italic] = [\s!features=3D\s!default]
      =   \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBoldItalic] [Stix2BoldItalic] = [\s!features=3D\s!default]
    = \stoptypescript
    
    \starttypescript [\s!math] [Stix2]
        \definefontsynonym
            = [Stix2Math]
          =   [file:STIX2Math.otf]
      =       [features=3Dmath\mathsizesuffix]
        \definefontsynonym [\s!MathRoman] = [Stix2Math] = [\s!features=3D{\s!math\mathsizesuffix,mathextra,stixtwo-math-feature},\s!= designsize=3D\s!auto]
    = \stoptypescript

    \starttypescript [Stix2]
        \definetypeface [\typescriptone] = [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!default]
  =       \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!mm] [\s!math] = [Stix2] [\s!default]
    = \stoptypescript

\stoptypescriptcollection

\protect

\setupbodyfont[Stix2]

\starttext
%
Compare $f'$ to $(f')$ and to $f''$, = $(f'')$, $f^{''}$ and $(f^{''})$.
%
\stoptext
%% end of = example



Am 22.05.2017 um 09:50 schrieb = Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com>:

Hi = Mikael,

You are correct, the position of = \prime depends on whether there is a next character or not after it, and = it seems that this has an effect on its position for characters having a = subscript as in
$f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$
= $f'f''f'=E2=80=99'$
Best regards: OK

On 22 May = 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist <mickep@gmail.com> = wrote:

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, = Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Mikael,

I agree = with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime operator = is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in mkii it = is the most satisfying (in my opinion=E2=80=A6).

The turn around consisting in using $f^{=E2=80=98=E2=80=99}$ = or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not = really satisfying either.

But I think (or I = hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.

Best regards: OK

On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist = <mickep@gmail.com> wrote:
[=E2=80=A6]

And just for reference, the document below = gives the attached pdf,
compiled with lualatex. I think = the location of the primes there look
better. Sorry for = spamming about this issue, but I think it is
important for = all people writing math with ConTeXt.

/Mikael

\RequirePackage{luatex85}
\documentclass[border=3D2pt]{standalone}

\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
\setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}

\begin{document}
$f'f''$
\end{document}
<lltest.pdf>_____________________________________________= ______________________________________
If your question is = of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : = https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
_______________________________________________________________= ____________________

_______________________________________________________________= ____________________
If your question is of interest to = others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : = https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
_______________________________________________________________= ____________________

Otared, = thank you for confirmation. I also hope there will be a fix soon.

In the meantime, I put yet another test file. = The location of the
primes depends on the next character = (I use, at the moment current
version: 2017.05.15 = 21:48)

/Mikael

\definefontfamily[myface][rm][Lucida Bright OT]
\definefontfamily[myface][mm][Lucida Bright Math OT]
\setupbodyfont[myface,10pt]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=3D2pt]
$f'(x)f''(x)f'f''$\stopTEXpage
\stoptext
<primfisk.pdf>___________________________________________= ________________________________________
If your question = is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : = https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
_______________________________________________________________= ____________________

_______________________________________________________________= ____________________
If your question is of interest to = others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : = https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
_______________________________________________________________= ____________________

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