* math spacing
@ 2011-03-13 12:16 Hans van der Meer
2011-03-13 12:35 ` Wolfgang Schuster
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Hans van der Meer @ 2011-03-13 12:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: NTG ConTeXt
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 399 bytes --]
It might be that I am missing something here. But I don not understand why in the math expression below the spacing behind the letters is different. With this behaviour it seems impossible to name a variable PYR and have it typeset as such.
Hans van der Meer
\starttext
$\tfd Q,Y,N,P,Y,Z \quad PYR$
\stoptext
ConTeXt ver: 2011.02.25 22:03 MKIV fmt: 2011.3.11 int: english/english
[-- Attachment #2: test.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 9187 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 486 bytes --]
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* Re: math spacing
2011-03-13 12:16 math spacing Hans van der Meer
@ 2011-03-13 12:35 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2011-03-13 20:26 ` Mojca Miklavec
2011-03-14 11:14 ` Otared Kavian
2 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2011-03-13 12:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 13.03.2011 um 13:16 schrieb Hans van der Meer:
> It might be that I am missing something here. But I don not understand why in the math expression below the spacing behind the letters is different. With this behaviour it seems impossible to name a variable PYR and have it typeset as such.
It’s font related:
\starttext
\dontleavehmode\ruledhbox{$Q$}\ruledhbox{$Y$}\ruledhbox{$N$}
\switchtobodyfont[pagella]
\dontleavehmode\ruledhbox{$Q$}\ruledhbox{$Y$}\ruledhbox{$N$}
\switchtobodyfont[termes]
\dontleavehmode\ruledhbox{$Q$}\ruledhbox{$Y$}\ruledhbox{$N$}
\stoptext
Wolfgang
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* Re: math spacing
2011-03-13 12:16 math spacing Hans van der Meer
2011-03-13 12:35 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2011-03-13 20:26 ` Mojca Miklavec
2011-03-14 11:14 ` Otared Kavian
2 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2011-03-13 20:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 13:16, Hans van der Meer wrote:
>
> It might be that I am missing something here. But I don not understand why in the math expression below the spacing behind the letters is different. With this behaviour it seems impossible to name a variable PYR and have it typeset as such.
>
> Hans van der Meer
>
>
> \starttext
> $\tfd Q,Y,N,P,Y,Z \quad PYR$
> \stoptext
I don't know enough about the zillions of math parameters in fonts,
but you will notice exactly the same behaviour in plain TeX.
If you need to have a variable PYR, you should probably do
\def\PYR{PY\kern-2ptR}
$\PYR$
(modify kerning at your own will; you might also want to use em
instead of pt units, or you could use \! if you don't need to be too
accurate)
The extensive original spacing is most probably related to the fact
that in mathematics you usually mean multiplication when you write one
letter after the other. In other cases (for example when you have a
function like "sin", "cos", "lim", ...) the spacing will look better.
Still, the fact that there is such a huge difference between PY and YR
looks more like a tiny font bug to me (but it is already present in
CM, so LM is unlikely to change it, at least until they switch to
OpenType Math).
Mojca
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* Re: math spacing
2011-03-13 12:16 math spacing Hans van der Meer
2011-03-13 12:35 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2011-03-13 20:26 ` Mojca Miklavec
@ 2011-03-14 11:14 ` Otared Kavian
2011-03-14 11:39 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Otared Kavian @ 2011-03-14 11:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi Hans VdM and Wolfgang,
It is true that naming a variable PYR, even in plain TeX, as shown below, gives rise to an ugly mathematical symbol since there is a certain distance between the « Y » and the « R » with math italic:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4316076/spacing-plain.pdf
The problem may be the bounding box of « Y ».
However, I think that in the example given by Hans VdM in mkiv, there is another, more important, issue which is the way the commas are treated between the variables Q, Y, N, P, Y, Z in math italic. Please compare the following outputs, one obtained with mkii and the other with mkiv:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4316076/spacing-mkii.pdf
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4316076/spacing-mkiv.pdf
I think that this is a big issue in typesetting maths with mkiv since punctuations are treated in an incorrect way.
Best regards: OK
PS: Sorry for the delay… yesterday this message was rejected when sent with the attached PDFs, because it was over 64Kb.
On 13 mars 2011, at 13:16, Hans van der Meer wrote:
> It might be that I am missing something here. But I don not understand why in the math expression below the spacing behind the letters is different. With this behaviour it seems impossible to name a variable PYR and have it typeset as such.
>
> Hans van der Meer
>
>
> \starttext
> $\tfd Q,Y,N,P,Y,Z \quad PYR$
> \stoptext
> ConTeXt ver: 2011.02.25 22:03 MKIV fmt: 2011.3.11 int: english/english
>
>
> <test.pdf>___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
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* Re: math spacing
2011-03-14 11:14 ` Otared Kavian
@ 2011-03-14 11:39 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2011-03-14 16:03 ` Otared Kavian
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2011-03-14 11:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 14.03.2011 um 12:14 schrieb Otared Kavian:
> Hi Hans VdM and Wolfgang,
>
> It is true that naming a variable PYR, even in plain TeX, as shown below, gives rise to an ugly mathematical symbol since there is a certain distance between the « Y » and the « R » with math italic:
>
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4316076/spacing-plain.pdf
>
> The problem may be the bounding box of « Y ».
Wasn’t this what i showed in my example?
> However, I think that in the example given by Hans VdM in mkiv, there is another, more important, issue which is the way the commas are treated between the variables Q, Y, N, P, Y, Z in math italic.
\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no]
Wolfgang
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* Re: math spacing
2011-03-14 11:39 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2011-03-14 16:03 ` Otared Kavian
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Otared Kavian @ 2011-03-14 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1107 bytes --]
Hi Wolfgang,
On 14 mars 2011, at 12:39, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> […]
> Wasn’t this what i showed in my example?
Yes indeed your examples showed exactly this: sorry for not mentioning your point.
> […]
> \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no]
Unfortunately this does not help at all, at least on my installation of ConTeXt.
It seems to me that the effect of the above command is to modify the spacing between characters and punctuation marks, but still the latter are misplaced with LM math fonts (with \bf or \rm there is no problem).
Best regards: OK
PS: here is the source which produces the attached PDF:
\starttext
\startbuffer[MathSpacing]
Example with mkiv:
With \type{\tfd}:
$\tfd Q, Y, N, P, Y, Z, \quad PYR$
\blank[big]
With \type{\bf}
$\bf Q, Y, N, P, Y, Z, \quad PYR$
\blank[big]
With normal LM math fonts:
$Q,Y,N,P,Y,Z, \quad PYR$
\stopbuffer
\getbuffer[MathSpacing]
\blank
\thinrule
\blank
Now with \type{\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no]}
\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no]
\getbuffer[MathSpacing]
\stoptext
[-- Attachment #1.2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 1901 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1.2.2: math-spacing.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 17393 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1.2.3: Type: text/html, Size: 192 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 486 bytes --]
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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2011-03-13 12:16 math spacing Hans van der Meer
2011-03-13 12:35 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2011-03-13 20:26 ` Mojca Miklavec
2011-03-14 11:14 ` Otared Kavian
2011-03-14 11:39 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2011-03-14 16:03 ` Otared Kavian
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