From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/86987 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Otared Kavian Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: \triangledown placed too low in Palatino Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:11 +0200 Message-ID: <5FAC845B-8A8C-4FD6-95C0-07745BCB5634@gmail.com> References: <87ha60svmk.fsf@approx.mit.edu> <1FAEB3CA-E8E6-44BB-AE31-0C69D9BC5509@icloud.com> <87eh14so9b.fsf@approx.mit.edu> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1397222035 31280 80.91.229.3 (11 Apr 2014 13:13:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:13:55 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Apr 11 15:13:50 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WYbHC-0005Kz-Df for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4B41024B for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id h7I3v1Mk0waR for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:45 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C11101F3 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766DE101E3 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id e6tIx0EDxv96 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter1-utr.mf.surf.net (filter1-utr.mf.surf.net [195.169.124.152]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FB4101E1 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x22c.google.com (mail-wg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22c]) by filter1-utr.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id s3BDDKp1029733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:13:31 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id m15so5328137wgh.3 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 06:13:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wVIeuOIrF4s0UwaukdFYLr/zj64ju9qBmz34UeiWV2I=; b=TEc+etA1fIpj2bnc2hCfoURnp7Mha41HZgZqs+/oNLTjTSHxdnG0dwHhHnVB1V+uQ1 QnwZAAQfh9f/c95CuxFTolfgLKUjugQJez/h7NAX/w01a9DCCt/HMLLdQofydF0v7spo /HKLyUYpD7zBw0IejgQwyuhf+fK+FYHUxiuqJsBztxbnjuWItXh21rDYUj/Qw+cirReS WYmxvwxQ5qF9vlGtWZGqE8SHdx2nFO4AfkXUMfemXo5lVKJz571+X+2ner/q4Pj6WfuG qsbVN0T21bzwlfXNUgYOzRrhMeN3cvQ7kpGGq0xompNZLQL74L/guPqtkcg25FP5rXG5 x0bw== X-Received: by 10.180.8.136 with SMTP id r8mr3481889wia.60.1397222000871; Fri, 11 Apr 2014 06:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.100] (lns-bzn-32-82-254-3-141.adsl.proxad.net. [82.254.3.141]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id lh6sm11258602wjb.27.2014.04.11.06.13.18 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Apr 2014 06:13:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: ntg-context@ntg.nl, base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22c; country=IE X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 07LMBdklG - 455b03acf53b - 20140411 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:86987 Archived-At: Hi, The \triangle operator is used for instance in the =AB symmetric difference= =BB of two subsets: if $E$ is a set and $A \subset E$, and $B \susbet E$, = then one defines \startformula A \triangle B :=3D (A \cup B) \setminus (A \cap B). \stopformula Then the mapping $(A,B) \mapsto A \triangle B$ is a commutative, associativ= e binary operator on the subsets of $E$. Some people use instead $A \Delta B$, but this is not the traditional, nor = the correct way, to write this =AB symmetric difference =BB of two sets. Th= is is why, I guess, in TeX \triangle is an operator. I have seen also \triangledown as an operator, but I don=92t recall the con= text in which it was used=85 Regarding the notation \nabla to denote the gradient, and \Delta, to denote= the Laplace operator (which by the way can be defined as $\Delta u :=3D \n= abla \cdot (\nabla u)$), Mikael Sundqvist gave the correct observations. Best regards: OK On 11 avr. 2014, at 05:48, Aditya Mahajan wrote: > On Thu, 10 Apr 2014, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: > = >> Jannik, >> = >> You are right. \nabla looks much nicer and is placed correctly. (I >> still think the \triangledown placement is slightly off.) >> = >> My environment files from MkII days have \def\nabla{\triangledown}, so I >> never tried the true \nabla until your suggestion. > = > In MkIV: \triangledown is mapped to 0x25BD while nabla is mapped to 0x220= 7. These are different glyphs. > = > IIUC, the difference in placement is because \triangledown is defined as = a mathop (and hence centered on the math-axis) while \nabla is defined as a= mathord. Compare: > = > \startformula > \nabla T > \quad > \triangledown T > \quad > \mathop{\nabla} T > \stopformula > = > From what I remember, I was the one who added the mappings for triangledo= wn as a mathop based on, I believe, unicode-math package in LaTeX. I don't = understand what all the "triangle operators" are supposed to do. As such, I= cannot say whether the wrong placement is due to the wrong font metrics or= the wrong mapping (mathop vs mathord) by ConTeXt. > = > Aditya > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to= the Wiki! > = > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-co= ntext > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________